34 replies to this topic

[Greyrook]

Salutations Mechwarriors! I just got this HOTAS setup and wanted to give a more in depth review to help add to this awesome thread right here (seriously, if you are shopping for joysticks go read and “like” that thread, it's awesome).



Technical Specs:

• Price: $US 44-50 (at amazon.com)
  
• Sensor-type: Potentiometer
  
• Buttons: 10 (+2 on throttle base) programmable buttons, 1 8-way hat switch
  
• Axes: Throttle: X (yaw/rudder rocking-switch) Y (throttle) Stick: X+Y, twist for Z rotation
  
• Ergonomics: Right handed only
  
• Compatability: PC and PS3 (controlled by a switch on the device). No drivers, just plug and play.
  
• Nice Features: Stick-twisting can be locked, adjustable tension, on-device storage for a single remapping profile, CHEAP, weighted base.

First off, yes, you can wrap this thing around a keyboard, shown here





The effective distance between the sections is just about 19 & 1/8 inches, so as long as your keyboard is less than 19” wide, you can probably run the cord underneath. Note, my keyboad is a Microsoft Sidewinder X4, and it is pretty big as far as keyboards go (ladies? *wink*). The setup is really comfortable; I was originally worried about having to do the tangled cords dance every time I wanted to use the joystick, but I am actually just going to leave it like this full time, I think.

One of the best features of this peripheral (in my opinion) are the options it gives you for axis control. The throttle has a left-right rocking switch on the back, shown here:


effectively giving you an X and Y axis on the throttle so you can control both speed and yaw (or leg-turning for mechs). But, the stick has a z-axis twist as well, so you can assign the yaw to that instead. OR, if you don't want the stick to twist, you can turn a nifty screw under the hand-rest which stops the twisting (very cool, and it feels really solid, even though the screw is plastic. Just be careful when turning it into place)

As if that weren't enough the throttle and stick can be separated (as you can see in the top photo), or locked together by means of a lot of fiddling with the connecting wire and 2 screws (allen wrench included in the base). Shown here:


So, right off the bat, if you want a setup that will give you tons of possibilities for controlling you mech, definitely consider this joystick.

Feel:

Let's get one thing clear, this device is easily one of (if not THE) least expensive HOTAS setups you can get that has an actual throttle instead of a clumsy slider on the joystick's base. So, keep that in mind when I say that it feels kinda cheap. I haven't used too many joysticks, but even I can tell the throttle feels especially plasticky. It clicks into place at the zero position, but the click has this hollow feel to it that seems like it will get worn down over time. There's no real resistance to the throttle so you have to be kind of gentle with it, but how accurate do you really need the throttle to be anyway?

The rudder/yaw control on the back of the throttle is a little more of an issue when it comes to a lack of resistance. I wanted to use this to turn the legs on my mech, but because it's so loose it's hard to turn with much accuracy. Like, it seems as if it's either all or none, even though it's technically a gradated axis. However, I'm testing this with MW4:Mercs, which has no sensitivity adjustments. So maybe that won't be an issue in a game that has more support for peripherals.

EDIT: After extended use, I have noticed that using the rocker can cramp the hand a bit, I'm not sure if it's because my desk is a little higher up or whether the shape itself is to blame. In any case, the rocker is a bit too large, and I find that it doesn't accommodate my fingers very well; the circular indent in the center tends to suck my fingers in, so depressing the rocker requires an unnatural lateral push with the ring and middle fingers. However, I'm going to stick with it and hope that stretching my fingers often will help.

The stick feels a little more high quality, but has some centering mushiness that will most likely get worse over time. It does have a tension twisty (k.n.o.b. is CENSORED, folks) on the underside, but it is just stretching a spring inside of the stick. Thus, the tension is kind of limited, but, like I said, I haven't used too many joysticks so maybe the max resistance is actually fine. The buttons are a little flimsy feeling and will wiggle in their housings, but they all have a satisfying clickiness, particularly the stripey red button.

Both the throttle and stick are weighted with internal metal plates, so they have a nice, solid heaviness to them. The joystick section could've used a little better physical design, though, as it tends to rock forward a bit during use.

Ergonomically, this stick is a delight, and I have to keep stopping myself from playing with it (LADIES?) while I'm watching something on Netflix or whatever.

Look/Appearance:

Hopefully you can decide this for yourself from pictures, I just wanted to say that when the two halves are separated, the semicircle cutout on the throttle is really dumb looking. Like, seriously, why couldn't they have just squared where the things fit together, so there isn't a weird cutout between the throttle and my keyboard. I feel like I'm supposed to put a drink, or skittles or something in there. But, that's just a little quibbly thing, not that big of a deal.

Operation:

I've tested the peripheral with Mechwarrior 4:Mercenaries to get a feel for how piloting a mech feels with this setup. Honestly, it's pretty good, even without the ability to adjust sensitivity. I have it set up so the yaw rocker on the throttle controls leg-twist, and the stick controls torso twist and pitch(with the z-rotation locked). This was a little complicated to set up; there's an LED-lit button on the base of the throttle that glows green when all 5 axis are independently programmable, and glows red when the yaw-rocker and stick-rotation are mapped to the same z-axis (making 4 effective axes). Yeah, not that intuitive, expecially since the icon over the button is a picture of a house (apparently, this button has different uses when connected to a playstation, but we don't care about THAT, right guys?). I won't get into any more specifics (unless requested), I just wanted to illustrate how it can be a little complex with the extra axes and the compatability with the PS3.

As far as button placement is concerned, all the buttons are pretty easy to locate by feel alone, although there's one little fella on the back of the throttle that tends to get away from me depending on how far forward the throttle is. My only complaint is maybe the stick could've used another hat-switch as there's only 4 other buttons on there including the trigger. On the other hand, the face of the stick feels nice and open, making it ridiculously easy to find everything with one's thumb. There definitely isn't much possibility of accidentally hitting the wrong button, but it means you'll probably need a keyboard at hand for all the mundane functions like turning on light amplification, target nearest friendly, etc. But that was probably going to be the case anyway, unless you get one of those $400 madness setups with all the switches. We're here for PRACTICALITY, not fancy metal switches and fighter plane dials, yeah?

Mounting Options:

There aren't any, but you probably aren't looking to mount something this cheap this to a chair anyway.

Conclusion:

While there's no way to tell whether this peripheral will even be supported by MWO (it will probably work fine) I can honestly say I am very happy so far with my purchase. I've been using it for just a couple days though, so I will edit this if any problems come up. So far, it has made X3:Terran Conflict and MW4:M a blasty to play, once I figured out how to get the controls set up like I wanted (read the manuals, guys, even though they're boring and grey and full of useless information that makes me want to rip them up for wasting my time with another section on "duhhh...what port is the USB port how do I connect it to the computer I'm a dummy" ARGGGHH)

I will continue to update this as I discover problems or functionality that I haven't mentioned. Hope you all find this informative, and I'll see you on the battlefield!

Thanks to http://www.dansdata.com/tmsticks.htm for a look at the inner workings of the device without having to break it apart myself. The site was actually looking at a different version of the device, but I'd imagine most of the stuff is the same. And a special thanks to user Thomas Hogarth for his reviews that led me to this purchase.

Edited by Greyrook, 20 July 2012 - 10:41 AM.

[buckaroo]

I had to RMA mine. When I moved the stick back and forth, the 1 & 2 buttons would self-trigger.

The replacement hasn't done it yet, but I've only had it less than a week.

[Sturmi]

I have used t-flight hotas for some time now, in MW4:Mercs for example. My throttle's rocker switch feel quite good resistance wise, no problems using it for accurate movements, I use it for turning mech
I position my ring finger in rocker's indent and use pinkie and middle finger to control the switch. That way I find it easy and comfortable to use.

And I can confirm that it is gradual axis, so no worries about that

Overall it is very good hotas for its price

[zirkonflex]

Why can no stick in the current world have the rugged and quality feel of my good old Saitek Cyborg Gold?
That thing was seriously the only stick I'd ever perfer to a mouse and keyboard setup.
I'm using a modern day Cyborg now (bad enough), but all the Logitech stuff I tried before was just utter waste, especially the deadzones where just outright offensive. Don't get me wrong, I like Logitech, but I was just dissapointed with the mechanical quality of all these devices.
You just can't aim with huge deazones, it is NOT possible.

I have a strong fear the Razer Artemis will suffer the same problem, but time will tell.

[SolarGhost]

I have the same stick and just entered beta -- been trying to setup the throttle to stop the mech when centered and forward and reverse if I pus forward or backward. Right now it only goes forward. Have you been able to get this setup to work?

[buckaroo]

SolarGhost, on 22 July 2012 - 05:55 PM, said:

I have the same stick and just entered beta -- been trying to setup the throttle to stop the mech when centered and forward and reverse if I pus forward or backward. Right now it only goes forward. Have you been able to get this setup to work?

Ummm... NDA? (You don't talk about fight club...)

[Spoo Hunter]

If it is anything like the Cougar, which I have, or the Warthog then it is fully programmable via T.A.R.G.E.T.

If MWO does not support all the buttons and axes they can be changed to simulate keys and even the mouse.

I have had a Cougar for years. It is the best joystick I have ever had. I'm looking forward to using the Cougar and my Saitek combat rudder pedals with MWO. It should be sweet

[Karhu]

http://www.amazon.de...k/dp/B0001ZN4WU

-20 bucks
-comfortable as ... it's comfortable
-enough buttons
-no driver problems last ~5 years (officially win7 x32/64 applied)
-force feedback

Here's the main thing: It's actually a joystick with a usefull configuration, you have a button you can lay your tumb on, tl,dr 2 intuitive fire buttons

and the rubber actually is a pure pleasure, i don't like to wish sweat from hands off the device, what is the case with your proposal

it's the best joystick i ever bought, there is no negative aspect for me at all

if you want all the detail, check the site here

don't know wether you can still buy them overseas

regards

[Dymitry]

SolarGhost, on 22 July 2012 - 05:55 PM, said:

I have the same stick and just entered beta -- been trying to setup the throttle to stop the mech when centered and forward and reverse if I pus forward or backward. Right now it only goes forward. Have you been able to get this setup to work?

Are you for real? NDA NDA NDA NDA NDA NDA NDA NDA NDA NDA NDA NDA NDA NDA NDA...getting tired of this guys.

OP: Thanks for the insightful review, I am considering to buy a similar setup, as I haven't played with a joystick for years and do not want to spend too much in case I cannot do it.

[AllGamer]

just picked up one of these last night, working great!

here's the profile for it to work properly:

user.cfg

cl_joystick_sensitivity = 0
cl_joystick_throttle_range = 0
cl_joystick_invert_throttle = 1
cl_joystick_invert_pitch = 1

actionmaps.xml

<ActionMaps Version="10">
<actionmap name="hud">
  <action name="toggle_Weapon_Group">
   <rebind device="joystick" input="" index="1" defaultInput="j0_button4"/>
  </action>
</actionmap>
<actionmap name="mech">
  <action name="m_toggle_night_vision">
   <rebind device="joystick" input="j0_button6" index="1" defaultInput="j1_pov1_left"/>
  </action>
  <action name="m_toggle_thermal_vision">
   <rebind device="joystick" input="j0_button5" index="1" defaultInput="j1_pov1_up"/>
  </action>
  <action name="powerToggle">
   <rebind device="joystick" input="j0_button11" index="1" defaultInput="j1_button11"/>
  </action>
  <action name="m_freelook">
   <rebind device="joystick" input="" index="1" defaultInput="j0_button7"/>
  </action>
  <action name="m_wg_as">
   <rebind device="joystick" input="" index="1" defaultInput="j0_button1"/>
  </action>
  <action name="m_wg6">
   <rebind device="joystick" input="" index="1" defaultInput="j1_button9"/>
  </action>
  <action name="m_wg5">
   <rebind device="joystick" input="" index="1" defaultInput="j1_button8"/>
  </action>
  <action name="m_wg4">
   <rebind device="joystick" input="j0_button2" index="0" defaultInput="j1_button7"/>
  </action>
  <action name="m_wg3">
   <rebind device="joystick" input="j0_button3" index="0" defaultInput="j1_button6"/>
  </action>
  <action name="m_wg2">
   <rebind device="joystick" input="j0_button1" index="0" defaultInput="j1_button5"/>
  </action>
  <action name="m_wg1">
   <rebind device="joystick" input="j0_button0" index="1" defaultInput="j1_button4"/>
  </action>
  <action name="joy_turn">
   <rebind device="joystick" input="j0_axis_x" index="0" defaultInput="j0_rot_z"/>
  </action>
  <action name="m_jump_jet">
   <rebind device="joystick" input="j0_button9" index="1" defaultInput="j0_button5"/>
  </action>
  <action name="m_fullStop">
   <rebind device="joystick" input="" index="1" defaultInput="j1_button2"/>
  </action>
  <action name="shutdownOverride">
   <rebind device="joystick" input="j0_button10" index="1" defaultInput="j1_button10"/>
  </action>
  <action name="joy_invert_throttle">
   <rebind device="joystick" input="" index="0" defaultInput="j1_button1"/>
  </action>
  <action name="joy_throttle">
   <rebind device="joystick" input="j0_axis_z" index="0" defaultInput="j0_slider0"/>
  </action>
  <action name="joy_torso_rotateyaw">
   <rebind device="joystick" input="j0_rot_z" index="0" defaultInput="j0_axis_x"/>
  </action>
  <action name="m_next_target">
   <rebind device="joystick" input="j0_button4" index="1" defaultInput="j0_button5"/>
  </action>
  <action name="m_torso_centre">
   <rebind device="joystick" input="j0_button7" index="1" defaultInput="j1_button3"/>
  </action>
  <action name="m_toggle_zoom_mode">
   <rebind device="joystick" input="j0_button8" index="0" defaultInput="j1_pov_right"/>
  </action>
  <action name="attack1">
   <rebind device="joystick" input="" index="3" defaultInput="j0_button0"/>
  </action>
</actionmap>
</ActionMaps>

[AllGamer]

i got inspired by the OP, splitting the Throttle & Joystick on each side of the keyboard

Edited by AllGamer, 11 October 2012 - 08:35 PM.

[Deathunder]

Anybody having a problem inverting the Y axis?

[AllGamer]

scroll up,
the user.cfg is there

[Swiss Beats]

AllGamer, on 11 October 2012 - 08:34 PM, said:

i got inspired by the OP, splitting the Throttle & Joystick on each side of the keyboard

and here I thought my three 24's were **** and you come at me with this?! The gloves are off sir, I am ordering three new monitors right away. I just hope my wife does not divorce me.

[Quazil]

I just bought this HOTAS, the left-hand throttle controls are excellent but I am having trouble zeroing in the torso/arm controls.
The dead-zone on the x-axis is too large, I'm going to try using the rotational z-axis and see if that works better.


cl_joystick_gain = 8
cl_joystick_sensitivity = 2.50
cl_joystick_throttle_range = 0
cl_joystick_invert_throttle = 1
cl_joystick_invert_pitch = 1

i_joystick_deadzone = 0.05
cl_joystick_deadzone = 0.05

The dead-zone settings don't seem to do anything.
A gain of 8 w/ 2.5 ~ 3.0 sensitivity is starting to hone it in.

Edited by Quazil, 12 October 2012 - 09:43 PM.

[Grand Duke Joshua]

demonr6, on 12 October 2012 - 03:44 PM, said:

and here I thought my three 24's were **** and you come at me with this?! The gloves are off sir, I am ordering three new monitors right away. I just hope my wife does not divorce me.

Yeap me too I thought 3 was good.... I don't even have the video cards for more!

Oh and awesome town on the.... Should I finish the basement or should I buy a Kickin rig for MWO! decision.

Can you show a pic of the back? I had to engineer a whole "thing" for my three

Here's hoping the devs put in eyefinity support someday.

-Josh out

[Magik0012]

AllGamer, on 11 October 2012 - 08:34 PM, said:

i got inspired by the OP, splitting the Throttle & Joystick on each side of the keyboard

If I wasn't playing on a 60" LCD, that would give me a severe case of display envy!!

That being said, I have the T. Flight at home.. and used it for a bit, but using just the throttle in a mouse-keyboard-throttle setup.. I eventually went back to M&K. I use the T.Flight at work as well on an training sim I work on for the USAF. They can have their issues, but, in general, they are good sticks. Of course, YMMV.

Ideally, I *want* to play with a good HOTAS setup, but I have a hard time giving up my mouse-aiming habits.

Edited by Magik0012, 12 October 2012 - 08:18 PM.

[Hakkukakt]

arrrfff ... that's give me the need to change my display ... ach ... think to take a 40" TV screen for replace my 24" pc screen ...humpf ...

[shotokan5]

I have had several of them they are the best for price on market. Do you neet SPP to make it work. They really have made nothing new for a while. All I see is a weard code that has nothing to do with cgf. So I can't make any changes to bad the stick is what this game should not that blank mouse and blanker keyboard. I have never seen one in a mech. Any information would be helpful. How where when. Anything to get this working. I would even send them another snow blower.

If not I have to get the extreme 3d had two. The only problem is targeting some are perfect then you can't hit the bull in the butt
with a base fiddle.

By the way why don't they give us a how to on all sticks that work. We did not spend money to fix our own car.

[Greyrook]

shotokan5, on 13 October 2012 - 07:52 AM, said:

I have had several of them they are the best for price on market. Do you neet SPP to make it work. They really have made nothing new for a while. All I see is a weard code that has nothing to do with cgf. So I can't make any changes to bad the stick is what this game should not that blank mouse and blanker keyboard. I have never seen one in a mech. Any information would be helpful. How where when. Anything to get this working. I would even send them another snow blower.

If not I have to get the extreme 3d had two. The only problem is targeting some are perfect then you can't hit the bull in the butt
with a base fiddle.

By the way why don't they give us a how to on all sticks that work. We did not spend money to fix our own car.

I'm moving to a new place so I haven't been able to rewrite the review from having played MWO with it, but I plan to try to do this within the next week and hopefully I'll be able to give some pointers about the user cfg stuff as well.