476 replies to this topic

[MovinTarget]

Wintersdark, on 12 November 2016 - 01:33 PM, said:

Wait, you're taking UAC's off clan mechs and putting clan AC's on? Did you really just say that? Or did I misread?

Because Clan AC's remain pointless. There is no reason to mount one instead of a UAC. UAC's have zero chance to jam if you don't Doubletap (read: fire like a regular AC), but still offer the potential to double down on damage.

Or if you want to be exotic go quad lbx10 on your kodiak.

[Arkhangel]

The thing i find most funny about this forum is the biggest complainers are the Falcons.. who, you know, own half the IS. you guys took that with Teamwork and tactics. Meta builds HELP, yes, but at the end of the day, it's you and your lancemates that win the mission.

also... honestly the UAC change isn't that bad. just stop holding the trigger down like an idiot and you can still vaporize people. time your shots and burst 'em, like the design notes say. and be glad PGI won't put in how Tabletop jams work. sure, only a 5% jam chance... but if it jams, the gun doesn't un-jam.

would you rather have that?

[Kodyn]

The thing I find funny is that there are still players who are surprised, shocked, and or offended when PGI makes blatantly bad balance choices.

I don't get mad at them anymore simply because I've accepted they do the best they can, which may not be very good by adult standards, but it's all we're going to get. Just stop throwing money at them, stop getting so stressed out when they do obviously idiotic things, and enjoy what parts of the game there are to enjoy, or leave. No need to get bent out of shape on PGI's account, they simply aren't worth the energy or time. Expect the worst out of them at all times, and yes, they may still surprise you with going lower, but usually you won't be as surprised, and it's easier to enjoy this game. Treat the game as a joke, as the devs themselves treat it, and you'll be mentally healthier in the long run.

[lpmagic]

Void Angel, on 11 November 2016 - 11:46 AM, said:

The ACH was a clear winner over even the Firestarter, which was previously the most powerful Light in the game. It's actually obsolesced that model in quick play. It doesn't make any sense to just let it sit there at the top unmolested - particularly if the problems for Lights lie at least in part with the tactics dictated by other aspects of the game.

is one of the most ridiculous statements I have seen.....every tactic has its ins and outs, but because it is the best at its chore does not mean it should be nerfed lol, it is the best of (right now) the worst weight class, not worthless to be sure, but far more so than in the history of this game, that is not a reason to make it worse lol not even close.

[Arkhangel]

that being said, nothing in this patch actually IS that bad. honestly, overall it's a decent patch. not the best ever, but not that bad.

and for the record, most of you complainers might want to actually take the time to read their reasoning rather than go "OMGWTFMYMECHISUSELESSNOW." You might not agree with it, but they're actually saying WHY they do the stuff now.

[Arkhangel]

and.. honestly... if you don't want them to nerf a mech or a build... don't overuse it. the KDK-3's been pretty much the go-to Clan Assault ever since it came out, as have Kodiaks in general. HBK-IIcs with dual UAC/10s, etc.

They based the changes on what they see US do. You can't really lose your **** over a change you're essentially the cause of why it's happening.

Maybe you clanners need to start mixing your builds up for once. find ones that fit your playstyle, rather than the current meta. You overuse a meta, you cause staleness in an MMO. Staleness kills MMOs. any good MMO player knows they'll have to adapt with the times. just how it is.

and, as i said before, your UAC builds would still work. You just can't hold down the button like trigger-happy morons and watch people dissolve in front of you anymore

[Wintersdark]

MovinTarget, on 12 November 2016 - 01:42 PM, said:

Or if you want to be exotic go quad lbx10 on your kodiak.

Sure, but LBX != cAC. cAC's are their own weapons, separate from LBX's. The LBX's do have some reason to be chosen now (particularly given no burst, so no face time) but not cAC's. cUAC's have the same characteristics firing in normal mode, but the cAC's are larger.

Now, they do have slightly different stats (cAC vs. cUAC) as the cAC's use LBX stats, but they're not really better.

Comparing only normally firing cUAC's, not doubletapping:

The cAC10 is cooler than the cUAC10 (2 vs 3 heat), however, the cAC10 also has a 2.9s cooldown instead of 2.5s, leading to a total DPS output of 3.45 compared to 4.0 DPS.

The cAC5 has a 1.8s cooldown vs. the cUAC5's 1.66. Same heat. Longer range, but the range difference can be compensated for with a cUAC5 range module (which isn't available to the cAC - this is the same thing that happens to the cAC2 vs. cUAC2

cAC20? 4.7s cooldown vs. the cUAC20/cLBX20 of 4.0.

[Navid A1]

Translation of this patch regarding UACs:
PGI:
"hello players..."
"Are you one of those s*ckers who did not exploit UACs in your KDK-3 gun boats while you could?"
"Did you use UACs in your balanced bracket builds?"
"... Well, s*cks to be you then, because we are Screwing UACs because of KDK-3"
"And F* your balanced builds!"

[Gwydion Ward]

Wintersdark, on 12 November 2016 - 01:33 PM, said:

Wait, you're taking UAC's off clan mechs and putting clan AC's on? Did you really just say that? Or did I misread?

Because Clan AC's remain pointless. There is no reason to mount one instead of a UAC. UAC's have zero chance to jam if you don't Doubletap (read: fire like a regular AC), but still offer the potential to double down on damage.

Because penalizing me for for having 1 single UAC on a mech, as a way to 'counter' people who carry 6-8 of them is just stupid? Yes i could just wait for the cooldown to end every, single, time, i fire.. but then i may as well be using a standard AC at that point correct? The UAC's already jam enough as it is.. ive constantly, over and over again, gotten 1st shot jams on my UAC (yes SINGLE UAC), Now their going to be jamming even MORE! not because the weapon itself is 'performing to well' But because people who are BOATING them are performing to well.

I'd rather go back to getting use to using a standard AC with 0 chance to jam, then struggle month after month, to use one that will likely get a higher and higher and higher chance to jam as they continue to go about countering 'boating' in a way that cuts the feet out from people who DONT boat.

[Gwydion Ward]

Arkhangel, on 12 November 2016 - 02:21 PM, said:

and.. honestly... if you don't want them to nerf a mech or a build... don't overuse it. the KDK-3's been pretty much the go-to Clan Assault ever since it came out, as have Kodiaks in general. HBK-IIcs with dual UAC/10s, etc.

They based the changes on what they see US do. You can't really lose your **** over a change you're essentially the cause of why it's happening.

Maybe you clanners need to start mixing your builds up for once. find ones that fit your playstyle, rather than the current meta. You overuse a meta, you cause staleness in an MMO. Staleness kills MMOs. any good MMO player knows they'll have to adapt with the times. just how it is.

and, as i said before, your UAC builds would still work. You just can't hold down the button like trigger-happy morons and watch people dissolve in front of you anymore

Thing is.. im not upset at them making a change. Im upset at the change they made.

The essentially 'blanket-nerfed' an entire weapon CLASS.. rather than taking the time to focus on the actual problem, which is people putting Mulitples of a Weapon on the same Mech.

They didnt attempt to solve 'laser-vomit' buy doubling the heat each single individual laser does. Instead they found a way (ghost heat) to try to curve the over-flood of Laser-vomit by attaching a penalty in heat generation to people who 'boat' energy and fire them all at once. Which, while not perfect, Helps to limit just how much Laser-vomit we see, but does NOT affect people who run those more "mixed up build" as you say.

With the change they made to UAC's and their REASON for making that change.. Their effectively hurting EVERYONE who uses UAC's.. even those of us with 'mixed up builds'.. not JUST the people who Boat them.

They really should have looked at how they balance Laser-vomit, and used a variation of that to balance 'dakka-vomit', (such as my suggestion of making a flat-rate jam chance increase per like-type UAC equipped), rather than just blanket-nerfing the entire weapon class.

[Wintersdark]

Gwydion Ward, on 12 November 2016 - 03:00 PM, said:

Because penalizing me for for having 1 single UAC on a mech, as a way to 'counter' people who carry 6-8 of them is just stupid? Yes i could just wait for the cooldown to end every, single, time, i fire.. but then i may as well be using a standard AC at that point correct? The UAC's already jam enough as it is.. ive constantly, over and over again, gotten 1st shot jams on my UAC (yes SINGLE UAC), Now their going to be jamming even MORE! not because the weapon itself is 'performing to well' But because people who are BOATING them are performing to well.

I'd rather go back to getting use to using a standard AC with 0 chance to jam, then struggle month after month, to use one that will likely get a higher and higher and higher chance to jam as they continue to go about countering 'boating' in a way that cuts the feet out from people who DONT boat.

Well, if you like cutting off your nose to spite your face, go right ahead.

But you can just push and hold the fire button for a UAC, and it will never jam, and fire as quickly as it comes off cooldown.

No, you do not get a jam on your first shot with a UAC. I challenge you to show me video of that happening now. Press and hold your fire button, count how many jams you get (hint: it's none whatsoever).

But, if you want to use something that's simply worse, and takes an extra slot, then don't let me stop you. Go ahead. I'm sure that'll show PGI for nerfing something that you weren't boating.

Edited by Wintersdark, 12 November 2016 - 03:12 PM.

[NocturnalBeast]

Navid A1, on 12 November 2016 - 02:45 PM, said:

Translation of this patch regarding UACs:
PGI:
"hello players..."
"Are you one of those s*ckers who did not exploit UACs in your KDK-3 gun boats while you could?"
"Did you use UACs in your balanced bracket builds?"
"... Well, s*cks to be you then, because we are Screwing UACs because of KDK-3"
"And F* your balanced builds!"

That is the story of MWO. Players exploited the hell out of Gauss / PPC jump snipers and got Gauss / PPC / Jump Jets nerfed as well as getting the Highlander and Victors nerfed. And now because of players exploiting UACs in Maulers and Kodiak -3s , everyone has to suffer.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Ed Steele, on 12 November 2016 - 03:50 PM, said:

That is the story of MWO. Players exploited the hell out of Gauss / PPC jump snipers and got Gauss / PPC / Jump Jets nerfed as well as getting the Highlander and Victors nerfed. And now because of players exploiting UACs in Maulers and Kodiak -3s , everyone has to suffer.

then they will come back with "hey its in the game, why not exploit it"

[XtremWarrior]

My reactions while reading the Patch Notes (only today, cuz i just came back from a trip):
Mechs - usual stuff
Decals - ok
Gameplay Changes? Nice!
Uac Jams? Well, i don't know but i don't mind giving it a try.
Clan LPL being tuned down, cool! (even if i pilot Clans, i found CLPL definitely too good at range)
LRMs buffed? Still fine!! there might be some hope for them!
Mechs Quircks? usual stuff...
wait...
VICTOR QUIRKS?!!! Omg is this the Day? The real Day? When i could take this magnificent Mechs and roam the field like in those good ol'times?!
omgomg!!!
Reading the Victor quiks memo - Life is pointless now... Why? oh why?....

[NighthawK1337]

tee5, on 12 November 2016 - 01:32 PM, said:

PPFLD?

Pin Point Front Loaded Damage, Gman is the one who coined it If I remember it correctly, it mostly describes how Gauss and ERPPCs work, they put the damage in a single component like a surgeon.

[SuperFunkTron]

I'm really confused as to where all this suffering is coming from. Anyone who is looking at the big picture of what they are trying to do can see that they are trying to extend time til death. There's no difference if you had one UAC or 6, there is no reason to whine about them slowing you down a few seconds between shots.

Are those who are complaining upset because they will have a harder time killing the enemy in obnoxiously short amounts of time? Or is it that a weapon that comes with an inherent risk of jamming as a consequence of risked reward is being balanced (not every adjustment is a "nerf")?

Based on what was explained in the notes, the general theme of their choices was to help pull the over performing mechs more in line with those that are performing at a more fair level. That happens to also include adjusting weapon systems where they explain that they are trying to create more specific roles for weapons.

I don't know how PGI can be expected to really build this game well when there is such an dramatic reaction to any changes made. They said they'll be watching how things go and adjust as necessary. We essentially have 2 realities that can come out of this. Either the boards go up in flames with nothing but complaints about every attempt at balancing the game better, which will further lead us in the direction of making aesthetically different mechs that function similarly, or we can offer objective, constructive criticism and encourage the development of mech roles. I would really like to see that expand rather than expecting a means to instantly kill the enemy.

[TELEFORCE]

I like the way the weapons look on the Linebacker. If I were to change one thing about the weapon geometry, I would put all of the missiles in the lower arm weapon pods like on the Summoner, and not in the shoulders.

[Lily from animove]

interesting exoeriment would have been upping the jamchnce by 2% for an UAC for each UAC being fired within the cooldown. That way single UAC builds kept a low jam chance while multiple uac builds would have gitten a boating amount based increased jam chance.

SuperFunkTron, on 12 November 2016 - 04:54 PM, said:

I'm really confused as to where all this suffering is coming from. Anyone who is looking at the big picture of what they are trying to do can see that they are trying to extend time til death. There's no difference if you had one UAC or 6, there is no reason to whine about them slowing you down a few seconds between shots.

Are those who are complaining upset because they will have a harder time killing the enemy in obnoxiously short amounts of time? Or is it that a weapon that comes with an inherent risk of jamming as a consequence of risked reward is being balanced (not every adjustment is a "nerf")?

Based on what was explained in the notes, the general theme of their choices was to help pull the over performing mechs more in line with those that are performing at a more fair level. That happens to also include adjusting weapon systems where they explain that they are trying to create more specific roles for weapons.

see thats not even whats going to happen and whats going to be achieved with those changes.thats only going to happen for a few mechs and will also hit some real bad mechs too, so it will just not create balance nor cause what is said to be the reason for the changes.

Edited by Lily from animove, 12 November 2016 - 05:12 PM.

[Tarl Cabot]

Quote

That nerf of the clan uac10 sucks sooooooo bad! 5sec is long when you fight vs a laser is doomer but 8sec is unplayable!!!!!!

If IS were to get their isUAC10 next week, I would still equip it on my mechs. I have such a ****** for that weapon..

[BLOOD WOLF]

Tarl Cabot, on 12 November 2016 - 05:11 PM, said:

If IS were to get their isUAC10 next week, I would still equip it on my mechs. I have such a ****** for that weapon..

if they introduced the IS UAC10 maybe they can keep the single shell double tap.