60 replies to this topic

[Verkhne]

Are there any Clan heroes that will suffer from the upcoming weapon changes? I am really unsure of buying any of them as my Grid iron and Spirit Bear are hangered or soon to be.

[Juodas Varnas]

Grid Iron? Clan Heroes?
Wot?

[martian]

Juodas Varnas, on 12 November 2016 - 02:49 PM, said:

Grid Iron? Clan Heroes?
Wot?

I guess that the OP means the moment when Grid Iron lost its Gauss Rifle cooldown quirk which was its main selling point.

[Juodas Varnas]

martian, on 12 November 2016 - 02:58 PM, said:

I guess that the OP means the moment when Grid Iron lost its Gauss Rifle cooldown quirk which was its main selling point.

Oh.
Yeah.
That makes sense. Sorry.
I've not slept in 20ish hours. Lot of work to do. So little time.
Coffee stopped helping.

I personally, will never understand the people that are constantly chasing the meta, buying mechs just for their quirks and then throw hissy-fits when they get eventually balanced (it's a multiplayer game, they're CONSTANTLY rebalanced and changing, buying anything just because it's good RIGHT NOW is a bad idea, in my opinion).

I don't know. Maybe i'm the crazy one, sitting in a cruddy old Trebuchet as of recently.

[Monkey Lover]

It's clans , you buy the hero mech for the power creep pods, no other reason.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 12 November 2016 - 07:45 PM.

[martian]

Juodas Varnas, on 12 November 2016 - 03:02 PM, said:

I personally, will never understand the people that are constantly chasing the meta, buying mechs just for their quirks and then throw hissy-fits when they get eventually balanced (it's a multiplayer game, they're CONSTANTLY rebalanced and changing, buying anything just because it's good RIGHT NOW is a bad idea, in my opinion).

Sure, that's true.

But imagine that you have just paid $35 (if not more) for your Hero Kodiak, only to find out that the 'Mech is going to be nerfed. Wouldn't you be pissed off?
That's a moment when people think twice about spending more cash.

[FireStoat]

The only hero I purchased was the Kit Fox and the weapon changes won't be a problem. Being able to mount 4 energy (2 / 2 torsos) with the standard right arm energy + ECM combo entirely frees up what you can do with the left arm. While it will have the same sad landspeed, weapon mount options being a problem has come to an end.

[Y E O N N E]

martian, on 12 November 2016 - 03:12 PM, said:

Sure, that's true.

But imagine that you have just paid $35 (if not more) for your Hero Kodiak, only to find out that the 'Mech is going to be nerfed. Wouldn't you be pissed off?
That's a moment when people think twice about spending more cash.

I wouldn't, because I'm a reasonable human being who understands that if something is being changed, it is being changed because they think the previous values were breaking things. If the change is legitimately unjustified, I will fight it, but the people who cry about post-sale changes simply because they are post-sale will cry even when it is a legitimate change.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 12 November 2016 - 04:10 PM.

[Verkhne]

martian, on 12 November 2016 - 03:12 PM, said:

Sure, that's true.

But imagine that you have just paid $35 (if not more) for your Hero Kodiak, only to find out that the 'Mech is going to be nerfed. Wouldn't you be pissed off?
That's a moment when people think twice about spending more cash.

That is my concern with this company. Took a year and a half break, came back levelled up the clan (Jenner Hbk, Orion and Hgn) package and then saw Kodiaks, Bought the 35 dollar pack , played it some (but not excessively) and now nerfed. Just disappointing, and while I cant argue with Kdk3 nerf the SB really required care and handling to have a good game. These Uac changes are going to be huge for clans and the Clpl are icing on the cake!

[Bandilly]

The weapon changes are mostly positive. The main losers were UACs, but even then they will remain amazing qeapons.

Specifically I hear Ultraviolet let's you do massive ballistic builds, do maybe he'll suffer.

[Lily from animove]

Verkhne, on 12 November 2016 - 02:46 PM, said:

Are there any Clan heroes that will suffer from the upcoming weapon changes? I am really unsure of buying any of them as my Grid iron and Spirit Bear are hangered or soon to be.

so you want to buy cruutchmechs only? because seriously when you think those changes will hurt the Spirit bear a lot, no it won't will still be a badass mech. stop buying and relying on flavor of the month mechs.

Juodas Varnas, on 12 November 2016 - 02:49 PM, said:

Grid Iron? Clan Heroes?
Wot?

Isorla confirmed

[Y E O N N E]

Bandilly, on 12 November 2016 - 03:28 PM, said:

The weapon changes are mostly positive. The main losers were UACs, but even then they will remain amazing qeapons.

Specifically I hear Ultraviolet let's you do massive ballistic builds, do maybe he'll suffer.

You know, I'm not sure the UAC/2 didn't actually receive a buff since the jam duration is 40% lower vice the jam chance being 13% higher than previous. It's hard to say without re-running the tests to see what its average DPS output is.

[Deathlike]

Yeonne Greene, on 12 November 2016 - 04:13 PM, said:

You know, I'm not sure the UAC/2 didn't actually receive a buff since the jam duration is 40% lower vice the jam chance being 13% higher than previous. It's hard to say without re-running the tests to see what its average DPS output is.

These are some numbers run from someone else (feel free to check and do the numbers yourself).

https://www.reddit.c...h_uac_analysis/

CUAC2s are buffed (probably mostly due to then jam time adjustment), while everything else is nerfed.

[BLOOD WOLF]

"Using data from a test that is not valid for real life environment to adjust values in the final product is so incompetent and unprofessional. Admitting that is just embarrassing....omg, they really do not know what they are doing "

picked that little gem from the comments section. ugh, science can't be explained to everyone it seems. It's a shame how many people do not now that most scientific test are not with large numbers.

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 12 November 2016 - 04:32 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Deathlike, on 12 November 2016 - 04:25 PM, said:

These are some numbers run from someone else (feel free to check and do the numbers yourself).

https://www.reddit.c...h_uac_analysis/

CUAC2s are buffed (probably mostly due to then jam time adjustment), while everything else is nerfed.

I thought as much.

Not sure I would say the 5 and 10 are "very bad" now, not when they can be boated. They will suck when you try to bring one (muh Shadow Cat!), but when hasn't that been true?

The 20 feels extremely sad.

[Angel of Annihilation]

martian, on 12 November 2016 - 03:12 PM, said:

Sure, that's true. But imagine that you have just paid $35 (if not more) for your Hero Kodiak, only to find out that the 'Mech is going to be nerfed. Wouldn't you be pissed off? That's a moment when people think twice about spending more cash.

Yep. I hate to say it but PGI should take the same stance on Hero mechs that Wargamming takes on premium tanks and ships and that is you don't change them after you sell them.

Seriously, I bought both the Heavy Metal and the Dragonslayer specifically because of the mobility they offered when I bought them and they both got slapped badly by the JJ changes not to mention the Dragonslayer just got slapped in general. Now I have about $60 worth of mech figuratively rusting away in their bays because I now consider them useless trash. It is absolutely frustrating to now see my Spirit Bear getting nerfed, especially since I consider it the weakest Kodiak Variant and absolutely not even remotely deserving of a significant nerf.

I am also pissed at the UAC nerfs. I have quite a few mechs that rely on a single UAC/10 or even a UAC/5 for a significant amount of their firepower. In fact the UAC/10 is a centerpiece weapon for most of my brand new Huntsman's they are just recently bought and as they were, with just a single UAC mounted, I often found myself unable to use a significant portion of my firepower due to jams. Now by increasing jam chance plus making the Jam duration 20% longer, I can only imagine how useless the UAC/10 is going to be. On my Huntsman, that UAC/10 I mount takes up half my total tonnage, Half, yet I won't be able to rely on it for damage any more and they call this balance?

Sorry, but PGI just sucks because they never, ever consider the cascade effect the changes they make have on anything not right in front of them. Maybe this change does balance a KDK-3 boating either Quad UAC/10s or a brace each of UAC/10s and UAC/5s, but they didn't pay attention to the fact that it breaks these weapons for the 20-30 other variants that don't or can't boat them. Total BS balancing.

[El Bandito]

Those CUACs will still perform and still be more useful than CACs in single-fire mode, but one must be more mindful on when to double tap, post patch. No more brainless double taps. Even for the improved CUAC2.

Edited by El Bandito, 12 November 2016 - 06:27 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

El Bandito, on 12 November 2016 - 06:25 PM, said:

Those CUACs will still perform and still be more useful than CACs in single-fire mode, but one must be more mindful on when to double tap, post patch. No more brainless double taps.

They'll also still be more inherently useful than an isAC, the latter of which are only really good on a select few 'Mechs.

[Angel of Annihilation]

El Bandito, on 12 November 2016 - 06:25 PM, said:

Those CUACs will still perform and still be more useful than CACs in single-fire mode, but one must be more mindful on when to double tap, post patch. No more brainless double taps. Even for the improved CUAC2.

Considering that the CAC's are STILL nothing more than placeholders for a weapon system that PGI just sort of decided to forget about, being more useful isn't a hard thing to accomplish. However when you consider that if your piloting a Clan mech you really don't have any other reasonable option to replace the UAC/5 or UAC/10 if you feel the jam chance isn't worth it, so your just SOL. So if they want to make UACs so damn unreliable you can barely use it unless your boating 3-4 of them, they need to get off their butts and actually implement the single shot LB cannons that those placeholder Clan ACs are supposed to have been in the first place.

[Y E O N N E]

Viktor Drake, on 12 November 2016 - 06:46 PM, said:

Considering that the CAC's are STILL nothing more than placeholders for a weapon system that PGI just sort of decided to forget about, being more useful isn't a hard thing to accomplish. However when you consider that if your piloting a Clan mech you really don't have any other reasonable option to replace the UAC/5 or UAC/10 if you feel the jam chance isn't worth it, so your just SOL. So if they want to make UACs so damn unreliable you can barely use it unless your boating 3-4 of them, they need to get off their butts and actually implement the single shot LB cannons that those placeholder Clan ACs are supposed to have been in the first place.

You can just...not double tap? Unless you really need the surge damage at that moment. Ultras are not supposed to be about going full-ham all day every day, it's supposed to be a measured risk to use the double tap.

An IS standard AC also isn't some magical beast that is equivalent to a cUAC. The PPFLD isn't even worth it due to the amount of slots and tonnage they drain, which is why they are never really taken on anything that isn't quirked to high heaven (and seriously, you don't see BJ-1DC, BJ-1, QKD-IV4 or RFL-3N/C steamrolling the field at all despite having some of the most powerful ballistic quirks in the game).

Now, if they actually buff the cool-down on standard ACs and make the velocity resemble something other than the viscosity of molasses, we can actually sit down and discuss how they are comparable in value if not in function.

Also, if Clans got single-shot LBs, IS should get a single shot slug LB-10X (that extra ton and that extra 90 meters would be godsends). You might also see cGauss rifles get replaced almost across the board by cLB-10X and 2xcERPPC+cGauss would likely transform into 2xcLB-10X + cERPPC purely for sustainability reasons. All pending on how they do up projectile velocity.