153 replies to this topic

[qeurul]

El Bandito, on 14 November 2016 - 06:47 AM, said:

That's just the thing, you can go into mid range with CUAC10s. You just don't have to double tap it unless it is the right time. Of course, that is beyond many puggers' comprehension. Finally, PGI decided to run with this jam % thing, so that's as close as they can get to balancing them.

Amen.

Before it was a no-brainer in any conceiveable situation to double-tap, even a low hit percentage shot for some light, because there was no tangible draw back. I for one look forward to testing my c-UAC loadouts, because now it requires actually some skill to leverage the gain vs. danger it puts you in.

For example, my dakka KDK-3 just sits in the stall, because I lost interest playing with it due to low-skill needed. Now you actually need to start using your tactical-area of you cerebral cortex For the record: before I lost interest in KDK-3 I switched to gauss/ppc, but it is quite the butcher as well.

[Kmieciu]

Stefka Kerensky, on 14 November 2016 - 06:55 AM, said:

but uac10 spread dmg, El.
IS ac10 doesn't.

Logically, AC/10 has to be superior. It weighs 2 tonnes and takes 3 slots more. And you can't have two of them in one component.

Except it isn't.

AC/10 might be better at legging fast light mechs.

But against the majority of medium, heavy and assault mechs, the UAC10 is accurate enough to be the superior one. And that's including the fact that most IS mechs that mount AC10 have some kind of velocity and cooldown quirks.

I realize that Gauss/PPC might be better in comp, but I say that 90% of the playerbase does better with UACs.

Edited by Kmieciu, 14 November 2016 - 07:06 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

God forbid the Clans can live outside the AC5-only world that the IS has been stuck in...

[El Bandito]

Kmieciu, on 14 November 2016 - 07:01 AM, said:

Logically, AC/10 has to be superior. It weighs 2 tonnes and takes 3 slots more. And you can't have two of them in one component.

Except it isn't.

Not to mention IS ACs also have less range than CUACs.

Gas Guzzler, on 14 November 2016 - 07:03 AM, said:

God forbid the Clans can live outside the AC5-only world that the IS has been stuck in...

Which is why PGI increased AC5 heat to 1.5. Now all the UAC5 and AC5 boats will have 50% more heat. Which is how it should have been from the start.

Edited by El Bandito, 14 November 2016 - 07:05 AM.

[Battlemaster56]

El Bandito, on 14 November 2016 - 06:59 AM, said:

CUAC10 is a 540 meter range, 10 ton, 4 Slot weapon, that can be dual boated on an XL torso.
IS AC10 has 450 meter range, 12 tons, and 7 slots! Sorry if Clan's precious CUAC10 got nurfed, but with one frigging look at the stats, one should realize that having burst fire is necessary!

It is high time for the rest of the Clan/IS weapons/equipments be equalized, and I am glad it started somewhere. Now we need to equalize Gauss, ERPPC, XL engine, and all the misc equipments such as BAP/ECM?NARC/CASE, where Clan versions are flat out superior.

What bout begging to our balance messiah, to bring in the rest of the IS's ultras, streaks, erlasers while you speaking of normalizing the weapon stats. It simpler and make since to balance an ultra to an ultra than ultra to a standard.


Just saiyan.....

[El Bandito]

Battlemaster56, on 14 November 2016 - 07:14 AM, said:

What bout begging to our balance messiah, to bring in the rest of the IS's ultras, streaks, erlasers while you speaking of normalizing the weapon stats. It simpler and make since to balance an ultra to an ultra than ultra to a standard.


Just saiyan.....

I have been asking that for months. Word is, Russ made a statement saying no future tech for the foreseeable future. So there you have it. What you have is what you will have.

[The Unstoppable Puggernaut]

Sorry but the bullet speed of the IS AC10 needs fixing. It's so f-ing slow. I thought the IS AC20 was bad, yes I understand why but the short range kinda makes things feel right. But the AC10?! With the medium range it can provide, it's just so slow. Why?!

As for the C-UAC range, I can get why they needed to be re-designed. I am actually kinda drooling over the thought of a IS UAC10 with the single projectile mechanic... wow. Then let clans have their AC's with single pellets but perhaps large recharge (or more heat).

Perhaps in maths terms, it seems projectiles are just killing people too quick. Previous games you could see laser's were shot as projectiles so to fix that they made them beams. With ballistics, you have to separate the shots in order to try and achieve the same effect. Even then it starts to get stupid.

[Gas Guzzler]

El Bandito, on 14 November 2016 - 06:59 AM, said:

CUAC10 is a 540 meter range, 10 ton, 4 Slot weapon, that can be dual boated on an XL torso.
IS AC10 has 450 meter range, 12 tons, and 7 slots! Sorry if Clan's precious CUAC10 got nurfed, but with one frigging look at the stats, one should realize that having burst fire is necessary!

It is high time for the rest of the Clan/IS weapons/equipments be equalized, and I am glad it started somewhere. Now we need to equalize Gauss, ERPPC, XL engine, and all the misc equipments such as BAP/ECM?NARC/CASE, where Clan versions are flat out superior.

But what about balance against the rest of the weapons in the game. We know the IS AC10 isn't good already..

El Bandito, on 14 November 2016 - 07:04 AM, said:

Which is why PGI increased AC5 heat to 1.5. Now all the UAC5 and AC5 boats will have 50% more heat. Which is how it should have been from the start.

I'm not too worried about that. IS UAC5s will still be good.

[M T]

PGI ruins the game some more, first lights, now this, gg Russ

[s0da72]

The jam mechanic for u/AC's is a table top rule that doesn't work well with an FPS game. I would like to see PGI replace it with something else and not rely on RNG. Over the last couple of years they have adjusted jam chance, have added in new quirks but it makes little difference. It's too unpredictable, it happens at a frequency that leads to frustrating game play that is not challenging or fun. Mechs that can only equip one u/AC that has it as a primary weapon are a joke. The -40/-30% jam chance quirks make little difference, and the only way to be somewhat effective is to have a minimum of two or more. On top of all this add in bugs like the 'single' tap jams, or the entire weapon group jamming at the same time and your ready to rip them all out to use either the normal AC's or LBX's.

Edited by s0da72, 14 November 2016 - 08:05 AM.

[STEF_]

El Bandito, on 14 November 2016 - 06:59 AM, said:

It is high time for the rest of the Clan/IS weapons/equipments be equalized,

I agree with this, but it is far better to revise the entire weaponry, not only one.
AND, I'm whining for my uac5 IS mechs too, El
My k2 brings 2uac5+2LPL. Guess what? I'll switch to 2ppc+2ac5.

I'm sure that ppl, after few drops, will say: "hey uac10 is **** now; I'll switch to something else"...because they were used to do far better, of course.
So---> uac10 no more on the field.

El Bandito, on 14 November 2016 - 07:04 AM, said:

Which is why PGI increased AC5 heat to 1.5. Now all the UAC5 and AC5 boats will have 50% more heat. Which is how it should have been from the start.

Which is why the ac5/ppc combo is now very better, 'case they lowered ppc heat.

[El Bandito]

Gas Guzzler, on 14 November 2016 - 07:58 AM, said:

But what about balance against the rest of the weapons in the game. We know the IS AC10 isn't good already..

Don't worry, "the rest of the weapons" will hopefully be balanced afterwards.

El Bandito, on 14 November 2016 - 06:59 AM, said:

It is high time for the rest of the Clan/IS weapons/equipments be equalized, and I am glad it started somewhere. Now we need to equalize Gauss, ERPPC, XL engine, and all the misc equipments such as BAP/ECM?NARC/CASE, where Clan versions are flat out superior.

Stefka Kerensky, on 14 November 2016 - 08:15 AM, said:

I agree with this, but it is far better to revise the entire weaponry, not only one.
AND, I'm whining for my uac5 IS mechs too, El
My k2 brings 2uac5+2LPL. Guess what? I'll switch to 2ppc+2ac5.

I'm sure that ppl, after few drops, will say: "hey uac10 is **** now; I'll switch to something else"...because they were used to do far better, of course.
So---> uac10 no more on the field.

Which is why the ac5/ppc combo is now very better, 'case they lowered ppc heat.

1. You can change your loadout all you like; we are due for another meta change in Puglandia anyway.

2. People will think CUAC10 are trash and switch to Gauss, and afterwards many will wonder why they are not pulling better numbers than before, cause they will suck at Gauss.

3. PGI only lowered IS ERPPC heat, not regular PPC. And IS ERPPC is trash unless uber-quirked.

Edited by El Bandito, 14 November 2016 - 08:24 AM.

[Metus regem]

Battlemaster56, on 14 November 2016 - 07:14 AM, said:

What bout begging to our balance messiah, to bring in the rest of the IS's ultras, streaks, erlasers while you speaking of normalizing the weapon stats. It simpler and make since to balance an ultra to an ultra than ultra to a standard.


Just saiyan.....

I'm with you on that, having the missing IS versions for better balance options, as it would be easier to balance Clan Tech Vs, IS versions of Clan tech, and let the IS tech 1 items be balanced against IS tech 2 items...

I have no issue with the IS UAC/2 being single shot, just like the IS UAC/5, but things get sticky with the UAC/10 and 20's...

There is precedent for them to be single shells, just like the IS UAC/5, as it is just a double tapping AC/5 that is a little larger all the way around... how ever when you start looking at the UAC/10 and 20, single shells would be very OP, but they can't have a large burst, less they be total junk compared to their clan counter parts, not to mention being worse options than the standard AC/'s on the IS side of things.

Gas Guzzler, on 14 November 2016 - 07:58 AM, said:

But what about balance against the rest of the weapons in the game. We know the IS AC10 isn't good already..

I'd counter that the IS-AC/10 is actually decent, provided you understand it's strengths and weakness, it could use a little more ammo/ton, but over all I'd call it well rounded as far as IS AC/'s go.

[Tom Sawyer]

Reduce all weapons to bb guns. Someone might get hurt.

[Metus regem]

Tom Sawyer, on 14 November 2016 - 08:24 AM, said:

Reduce all weapons to bb guns. Someone might get hurt.

We have those already...

MG's and LB series AC/s.....

[Cy Mitchell]

Instead of increased jam chance percentage and increased jam length, I would have increased the cooldown for all UAC for each additional one fired withing the .5 window. It controls boating while not hurting single or double users much if at all. It is also completely predictable.

Same system would work for Gauss, PPC, PPC/Gauss or ballistic PPC.

[Battlemaster56]

Metus regem, on 14 November 2016 - 08:21 AM, said:

I'm with you on that, having the missing IS versions for better balance options, as it would be easier to balance Clan Tech Vs, IS versions of Clan tech, and let the IS tech 1 items be balanced against IS tech 2 items...

I have no issue with the IS UAC/2 being single shot, just like the IS UAC/5, but things get sticky with the UAC/10 and 20's...

There is precedent for them to be single shells, just like the IS UAC/5, as it is just a double tapping AC/5 that is a little larger all the way around... how ever when you start looking at the UAC/10 and 20, single shells would be very OP, but they can't have a large burst, less they be total junk compared to their clan counter parts, not to mention being worse options than the standard AC/'s on the IS side of things.

I understand once it comes down to UAC 10, and 20's it becomes a hard to decide how to balance these two weapons.
Some say UAC 10 and 20's should have smaller burst compared to their clan counterparts, this could be the best option just make them shoot two pellets dealing 5, 10 damage each.

I'm completely open for an other options to balance IS UAC 10, 20.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

El Bandito, on 14 November 2016 - 06:04 AM, said:

And what happens when other Clan mechs capable of boating CUACs arrive? The Bane? The Blood Asp?

I'm late to this party, but neither of those really matter, the Bane will have the sole benefit over the Whale of being to adjust its tonnage, but with the new Hero Whale, the Whale has enough hardpoints for UAC2 boating (it had enough to handle boating 5s) while the Blood Asp doesn't really add anything the Kodiak can't already do well enough. In other words we have mechs perfectly capable of boating all the different classes of UACs.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 14 November 2016 - 09:01 AM.

[El Bandito]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 14 November 2016 - 09:00 AM, said:

I'm late to this party, but neither of those really matter, the Bane will have the sole benefit over the Whale of being to adjust its tonnage, but with the new Hero Whale, the Whale has enough hardpoints for UAC2 boating (it had enough to handle boating 5s) while the Blood Asp doesn't really add anything the Kodiak can't already do well enough.

Except you are forgetting PGI's tendency to inflate hardpoints (KDK-3 being the most prominent example). Which means many future Clan mechs 50 tons or above can potentially boat 3xCUAC5 or more. So your point is moot.

And Bane is so much better than the Whale. Not only it is a battlemech, virtually ALL of its hardpoints are high mounted. They don't even compare.

Edited by El Bandito, 14 November 2016 - 09:04 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

El Bandito, on 14 November 2016 - 09:01 AM, said:

Except you are forgetting PGI's tendency to inflate hardpoints

Blood Asp is an Omnimech, it won't get any inflation just like others. The Bane however doesn't need any inflation because outside of boating 12-14 MGs it already has more hardpoints than it can reliably use in this game.

El Bandito, on 14 November 2016 - 09:01 AM, said:

And Bane is so much better than the Whale. Not only it is a battlemech, virtually ALL of its hardpoints are high mounted. They don't even compare.

The only real advantage of the Bane is its ability to mount a larger engine, it may have high mounts but they are spread out wide unless you go full asym (which has its own share of issues) which makes it much less useful. The Whale has more clustered hardpoints which can easily matter more than high mounts (ie if it is near as wide as the Victor), the Whale will have the better mounts.

El Bandito, on 14 November 2016 - 09:01 AM, said:

Which means many future Clan mechs 50 tons or above can potentially boat 3xCUAC5 or more.

This has nothing to do with what you brought up, but since we are going that route, the only thing that could be better than the Dakka Kodiak and Dakka Whale is a KDK-3 that had 3-4 ballistics per torso rather than just 2, if you find a mech that could potentially have that (Stone Rhino maybe?) then you have the better dakka boat.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 14 November 2016 - 09:10 AM.