15 replies to this topic

[Daemon04]

9 Assaults and 3 Heavies vs 2 Assaults 7 Heavies 3 Mediums. I am starting to think that this does seem a little unfair.
Just look at it and decide for yourself.

EDIT-
This shall not be considered advertising but I found an urbie and wanted to post it, too. =)


(i dont know how to embedd that vid in here)

Edited by Daemon04, 19 November 2016 - 01:57 PM.

[Wintersdark]

Group queue. It's totally fair; your team didn't use the tonnage that was available for them to use. It's your teams fault you're undertonned.

Or, you had a much larger group, and elected not to use the coordination available as such. Either way, still your team's fault.

[NoiseCrypt]

Group Q doesnt actually have a MM and no one has ever claimed that it did. But yea, that specific matchup sucks.

[Wintersdark]

NoiseCrypt, on 19 November 2016 - 12:39 PM, said:

Group Q doesnt actually have a MM and no one has ever claimed that it did. But yea, that specific matchup sucks.

It does have one, it's just that mech tonnage is determined before the MM gets involved. If tonnage is unbalanced, it's either because people chose to use lighter mechs, or because one side had much larger groups.

Tonnage differences have nothing whatsoever to do with the matchmaker.

With that said, group queue populations mean that it may as well not have a matchmaker, which I get was where you were going with that.

Edited by Wintersdark, 19 November 2016 - 12:41 PM.

[Brizna]

MM can't work miracles. I am pretty sure most players in that match were of similar personal skill but a combination of:
Bringing the worst/best mech for the map
Failing to notice a movement on the mini map
A bit of bad luck
And a lack of coordination on your team's part

Resulted in that roll.

[Bandilly]

Looks like group queue, got exactly what you signed up for. You either had a large single group join or players not using their available tonnage.

[Daemon04]

Wintersdark, on 19 November 2016 - 12:39 PM, said:

Group queue. It's totally fair; your team didn't use the tonnage that was available for them to use. It's your teams fault you're undertonned.

Or, you had a much larger group, and elected not to use the coordination available as such. Either way, still your team's fault.

Sir, all tonnage used up and we dropped like this. Coordination was being done properly, but take those assaults upfront with the armor you dont have.

[Single Mom]

Which ever group on your team that left a hefty amount of unused tonnage is to blame.

[Andi Nagasia]

Daemon04, on 19 November 2016 - 12:53 PM, said:

Sir, all tonnage used up and we dropped like this. Coordination was being done properly, but take those assaults upfront with the armor you dont have.

how big was your group?

also in Group Que they balance small groups to big groups by giving them more tonnage,
so technically you can have a match which is a12man(all in Vipers) vs 6,2Mans(all in Kodiaks),
this is balanced because its believed that the larger Groups(12man) will have more coordination,

this is just how the system works, it didnt use to be this way, but this is what people asked for,
so this is what PGI gave us, a Tonnage Based Group Que system, that gives smaller groups more tonnage,
Edit-

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 19 November 2016 - 01:01 PM.

[KHETTI]

Inb4 "Why can't we have groups in solo Q?"-thread.

[Daemon04]

Andi Nagasia, on 19 November 2016 - 01:00 PM, said:

how big was your group?

also in Group Que they balance small groups to big groups by giving them more tonnage,
so technically you can have a match which is a12man(all in Vipers) vs 6,2Mans(all in Kodiaks),
this is balanced because its believed that the larger Groups(12man) will have more coordination,

this is just how the system works, it didnt use to be this way, but this is what people asked for,
so this is what PGI gave us, a Tonnage Based Group Que system, that gives smaller groups more tonnage,
Edit-

group of 7 and all tonnage used up.
that all kodiak vs all medium scenario is one of the things i cant understand. i cannot believe in an incredible pefect 12 man having a chance against that much of armor and teddybears. especially teddybears.
viper armor vs kodiak armor amount is a yuuuuge gap.
if this is believed to be balanced - yea good luck with that. and i truely cannot comprehend people asking for it.
In no fashioned manner. it is a huge disadvantage, I believe.
Introducing an overall tonnage balance would be a good point to start. same tonnage faces same tonnage.

[Kubernetes]

Daemon04, on 19 November 2016 - 01:44 PM, said:

group of 7 and all tonnage used up.
that all kodiak vs all medium scenario is one of the things i cant understand. i cannot believe in an incredible pefect 12 man having a chance against that much of armor and teddybears. especially teddybears.
viper armor vs kodiak armor amount is a yuuuuge gap.
if this is believed to be balanced - yea good luck with that. and i truely cannot comprehend people asking for it.
In no fashioned manner. it is a huge disadvantage, I believe.
Introducing an overall tonnage balance would be a good point to start. same tonnage faces same tonnage.

Coordination and teamwork can overcome tonnage. I've dropped in 12-mans before against 8 or 9 assaults, and it's usually an overwhelming win. Small groups of spread out assaults get wrecked by fast-flowing mediums that focus fire. If you brought the tonnage advantage down it would make big groups even more powerful than they are now.

[Wintersdark]

Daemon04, on 19 November 2016 - 01:44 PM, said:

group of 7 and all tonnage used up.
that all kodiak vs all medium scenario is one of the things i cant understand. i cannot believe in an incredible pefect 12 man having a chance against that much of armor and teddybears. especially teddybears.
viper armor vs kodiak armor amount is a yuuuuge gap.
if this is believed to be balanced - yea good luck with that. and i truely cannot comprehend people asking for it.
In no fashioned manner. it is a huge disadvantage, I believe.
Introducing an overall tonnage balance would be a good point to start. same tonnage faces same tonnage.

Tonnage isn't nearly that important. They didn't have any kdk-3's, either, and had predominantly light assaults.

You had a group size advantage that you squandered - the armor difference isn't nearly that big.

We - that is, the player base - complained that small groups where horribly disadvantaged in the group queue because a bunch of groups of 2-3 would get crushed by groups of 8+ and that "wasn't fair". And incidentally, that's about where you are, with a 7 man group against a bunch of 2-3 man groups.

Is this unfair? I don't know. I suspect it depends on who wins or loses the match in question. But this is the system we asked for, because everyone felt equal tonnage and unequal group sizes was unfair.

Kubernetes, on 19 November 2016 - 02:01 PM, said:

Coordination and teamwork can overcome tonnage. I've dropped in 12-mans before against 8 or 9 assaults, and it's usually an overwhelming win. Small groups of spread out assaults get wrecked by fast-flowing mediums that focus fire. If you brought the tonnage advantage down it would make big groups even more powerful than they are now.

I've certainly been utterly wrecked in small-group heavy tonnage teams vs competent 12 man's in all lights. They swarm in, kill one guy, then scatter, pick a new target and rush him, then scatter. Kind of beautiful to watch, but horrible to die to

Edited by Wintersdark, 19 November 2016 - 02:07 PM.

[Daemon04]

Wintersdark, on 19 November 2016 - 02:05 PM, said:

Tonnage isn't nearly that important. They didn't have any kdk-3's, either, and had predominantly light assaults.

You had a group size advantage that you squandered - the armor difference isn't nearly that big.

We - that is, the player base - complained that small groups where horribly disadvantaged in the group queue because a bunch of groups of 2-3 would get crushed by groups of 8+ and that "wasn't fair". And incidentally, that's about where you are, with a 7 man group against a bunch of 2-3 man groups.

Is this unfair? I don't know. I suspect it depends on who wins or loses the match in question. But this is the system we asked for, because everyone felt equal tonnage and unequal group sizes was unfair.



I've certainly been utterly wrecked in small-group heavy tonnage teams vs competent 12 man's in all lights. They swarm in, kill one guy, then scatter, pick a new target and rush him, then scatter. Kind of beautiful to watch, but horrible to die to

that kdk- thing is referring to that scenario that our beloved volunteer mod mentioned.

[Andi Nagasia]

Kubernetes, on 19 November 2016 - 02:01 PM, said:

Coordination and teamwork can overcome tonnage. I've dropped in 12-mans before against 8 or 9 assaults, and it's usually an overwhelming win. Small groups of spread out assaults get wrecked by fast-flowing mediums that focus fire. If you brought the tonnage advantage down it would make big groups even more powerful than they are now.

this 12x100Tonners vs a Team of 12All Ranged/All Brawl Lights/Mediums,
the Lights/Mediums will most likely win because they are more organized and can focus more,

Wintersdark, on 19 November 2016 - 02:05 PM, said:

Tonnage isn't nearly that important. They didn't have any kdk-3's, either, and had predominantly light assaults.

You had a group size advantage that you squandered - the armor difference isn't nearly that big.

We - that is, the player base - complained that small groups where horribly disadvantaged in the group queue because a bunch of groups of 2-3 would get crushed by groups of 8+ and that "wasn't fair". And incidentally, that's about where you are, with a 7 man group against a bunch of 2-3 man groups.

Is this unfair? I don't know. I suspect it depends on who wins or loses the match in question. But this is the system we asked for, because everyone felt equal tonnage and unequal group sizes was unfair.

I've certainly been utterly wrecked in small-group heavy tonnage teams vs competent 12 man's in all lights. They swarm in, kill one guy, then scatter, pick a new target and rush him, then scatter. Kind of beautiful to watch, but horrible to die to

the Trick is to Focus Fire, even with 12xLCT-3S(SRM10(150Ammo),
you move so fast and around so quickly that any mech will melt in seconds to that,
300Damage per mech is more than enough to Kill 12x100Tonner's, especially if your only shooting backs out,

Daemon04, on 19 November 2016 - 02:12 PM, said:

that kdk- thing is referring to that scenario that our beloved volunteer mod mentioned.

yes, as an Example of extremes, i think Wintersdark was referring to your opponent didnt have any KDKs,
KDK that them self are regarded and the Premiere Assault of MWO at this time,

[Clownwarlord]

The answer you are looking for is: Group Cue.