53 replies to this topic

[Spheroid]

^It could be slightly less if the C3 is replaced by a SHS. Still huge, but justifiable. We do have mechs with +80% acceleration so quirk values that large are not unheard of.

Edited by Spheroid, 20 November 2016 - 09:33 AM.

[FupDup]

Spheroid, on 20 November 2016 - 09:32 AM, said:

^It could be slightly less if the C3 is replaced by a SHS. Still huge, but justifiable. We do have mechs with +80% acceleration so quirk values that large are not unheard of.

Not unheard of, but rare.

And expecting PGI to give this to a light mech...not likely (because they hate lights). Especially because it's a 35-ton light.

At this point I really would rather see an "Owens Mk. II" that has proper design traits (Endo, nothing hardlocked, DHS) rather than hoping in vain for PGI to turboquirk the standard Owens into relevance.

[Y E O N N E]

Pariah Devalis, on 20 November 2016 - 07:23 AM, said:

2. No. Humanoid, slightly pudgy, 30 tons. The ACH did not get any bigger, and isn't a fatty. If anything, it would be a hair smaller than the ACH.

Spider got bigger, and humanoid 'Mechs in general got larger than their non-humanoid counterparts for the same mass. How much do you trust PGI?

Quote

4. Uninteresting, but lethal. The all energy version would be an interesting platform in the game.

Meh. Effective does not an interesting platform interesting make.

[Pariah Devalis]

Yeonne Greene, on 20 November 2016 - 09:50 AM, said:

Spider got bigger, and humanoid 'Mechs in general got larger than their non-humanoid counterparts for the same mass. How much do you trust PGI?



Meh. Effective does not an interesting platform interesting make.

Spider was gangly as hell, though. It started off skinny. Keep the volume around the same as the ACH, and you're golden for scale.

[KoalaBrownie]

Bush Hopper, on 20 November 2016 - 02:03 AM, said:

It lacks an ECM. A light's survivability is so much better with one. Therefore I guess an ACH would still outperform it

That aside, light mechs are in a sorry state. So you can also bet that any other weight class can do their role (besides running off) better than they do.

The Javelin-11B has an ECM, introduced in 3054
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Javelin

[TheArisen]

Bush Hopper, on 20 November 2016 - 02:03 AM, said:

It lacks an ECM. A light's survivability is so much better with one. Therefore I guess an ACH would still outperform it

That aside, light mechs are in a sorry state. So you can also bet that any other weight class can do their role (besides running off) better than they do.

The Javelin has an ecm variant. It's an energy boat but I suppose that's good for a light.

[Y E O N N E]

Pariah Devalis, on 20 November 2016 - 11:18 AM, said:

Spider was gangly as hell, though. It started off skinny. Keep the volume around the same as the ACH, and you're golden for scale.

Are we, though? Both the ACH and SDR are pretty easy to hit. The ACH especially, taking side torsos is not hard.

[TheArisen]

Yeonne Greene, on 20 November 2016 - 12:22 PM, said:

Are we, though? Both the ACH and SDR are pretty easy to hit. The ACH especially, taking side torsos is not hard.

True but the ACH does have fairly large STs. But it's true, lights are weak ATM.

[FupDup]

Yeonne Greene, on 20 November 2016 - 12:22 PM, said:

Are we, though? Both the ACH and SDR are pretty easy to hit. The ACH especially, taking side torsos is not hard.

It's sad that a fair number of people on this forum think that the Cheetah is scaled too small, even after the rescale.

[MadHornet]

El Bandito, on 20 November 2016 - 01:15 AM, said:

Nah, Assassin is better missile Light than Javelin could ever be, even though Assassin is a Medium. Javelin is slower, packs less, and jumps less than the Assassin. Hurray for MK-IV JJs...

I did a test similar to my original post, but with a Cicada X5.

Same speed ( 139 kph - 140+ ish )

Only has a few free tons of advantage, and that's if you strip the arms. So you either dedicate that to more JJ or add a little more SRM's with slightly more ammo to compensate.

Of course you could directly copy my Javelin build and make it almost 10 kph faster, but then what's the difference? An easier to hit Javelin?

Also, jumping high isn't always a good thing. I found that using 1 or 2 jumpjets just to make turning easy is sometimes better than flying in the air and making you a clay pigeon for everyone to shoot at.

Edited by MadHornet, 20 November 2016 - 01:45 PM.

[Green Mamba]

The Way they are/have nerf(ing) Lights none of them will be decent from this point on until Paul pulls back on the bad decisions

[El Bandito]

MadHornet, on 20 November 2016 - 01:44 PM, said:

I did a test similar to my original post, but with a Cicada X5.

Same speed ( 139 kph - 140+ ish )

Only has a few free tons of advantage, and that's if you strip the arms. So you either dedicate that to more JJ or add a little more SRM's with slightly more ammo to compensate.

Of course you could directly copy my Javelin build and make it almost 10 kph faster, but then what's the difference? An easier to hit Javelin?

Also, jumping high isn't always a good thing. I found that using 1 or 2 jumpjets just to make turning easy is sometimes better than flying in the air and making you a clay pigeon for everyone to shoot at.

Still means Assassin is better than the Javelin.

[MadHornet]

El Bandito, on 20 November 2016 - 06:18 PM, said:

Still means Assassin is better than the Javelin.

The missile hardpoints on the assassin are lower mounted, as opposed to the Javelin with the hardpoints being in the uppermost portion of the torsos. I'd imagine a Javelin rendition would have a body type more similar to that of the Commando, and will probably have a respectable set of hitboxes, even better if the arm hitboxes are overdone.

The assassin I can already tell is a CT and leg soaker, it's going to be difficult to twist away from it.

[TheArisen]

El Bandito, on 20 November 2016 - 06:18 PM, said:

Still means Assassin is better than the Javelin.

Why is the 40 tin Assassin being used as the benchmark for the 30 ton Javelin? Yes they both have a base variant that's a missile boat but the Javelin's ecm variant comes with 7 energy HP's out of the box.

Worst case, people use the various energy variants instead of the missile boats. That's something the Assassin & it's mere 5 HP's can't say.

Also the Javelin being 30 tons means it'll be somewhat smaller and for what it's worth, easier to fit in a CW dropdeck.

[El Bandito]

TheArisen, on 20 November 2016 - 10:10 PM, said:

Why is the 40 tin Assassin being used as the benchmark for the 30 ton Javelin? Yes they both have a base variant that's a missile boat but the Javelin's ecm variant comes with 7 energy HP's out of the box.

Worst case, people use the various energy variants instead of the missile boats. That's something the Assassin & it's mere 5 HP's can't say.

The 7 energy Javelin does not have ECM. The only ECM Javelin variant has 2xSRM4s as stock loadout.

Edited by El Bandito, 20 November 2016 - 11:18 PM.

[Bombast]

El Bandito, on 20 November 2016 - 11:16 PM, said:

The 7 energy Javelin does not have ECM. The only ECM Javelin variant has 2xSRM4s as stock loadout.

And it can't jump either.

[The Zohan]

Spheroid, on 20 November 2016 - 09:26 AM, said:

I would insist on the ability to use clan tech though. It would be a good test case for mixed tech builds.

No. Just no.

[HauptmanT]

You guys are all wrong.

Every one of you.

It's Firemoth/Dasher time.

Clans need a counter Locust. Locust can mount a 190XL and go fast. Dasher can mount a 200XL and go faster, plus it has MASC.

Then there is coolness of relevant arm mounted weapons. Like totally the only mech where arm mounts are the coolest mounts.

Plus it looks like we already have some concept art.

Edited by HauptmanT, 21 November 2016 - 12:48 AM.

[TheArisen]

El Bandito, on 20 November 2016 - 11:16 PM, said:

The 7 energy Javelin does not have ECM. The only ECM Javelin variant has 2xSRM4s as stock loadout.

Indeed I was wrong. Still, comparing the Assassin to the Javelin is a bit off.

[Dragon014]

No this will not, there needs to be a Light IS mech that can compete with the cheetah and this is not it. Needs both ECM and Jump jets. Once again an IS light mech that doesn't have the armor, guns, or protection (ECM, JJ) to keep it in the running. Oh ya it doesn't run as fast.