78 replies to this topic

[AnTi90d]

I started FP back in February and March, when I finally remembered that MWO existed and finally installed the game. I had a damn blast in FPv2. I read up on what to do in the forum posts and started my mechbay tour. I followed the caller's orders and learned how to play the mode. I got my first mechbay out of every single faction the day before FPv3 dropped onto the scene like a hot turd plopped onto the dinner table. Everything nosedived once Phase 3 hit.

LordNothing, on 20 November 2016 - 09:35 PM, said:

The FP experience was great for pugs the whole time the split queue was available.

The split queue was the 2nd worst thing that ever happened to FP players that had no unit. (The first being the Long Tom that caused many to permanently quit FP.)

1.) Wait times weren't long, they were infinite.. because we didn't even have 20 people queuing for an Invasion match. I sat in an Invasion queue for over a solid god damn hour and it never filled up past halfway.. during both NA primetime and SEA primetime. That's why people started making 1-man Mercenary units, so they could actually play FP, agian, because no one in the solo queue was allowed to play FP, anymore.

2.) It kept unitless pilots from being able to mingle with any units. No mingling = no recruitment = constantly shrinking playerbase as no new pilots are added and people are always quitting / getting bored with MWO / leaving to play other games. Everyone kept saying, "hurr.. join a unit..," but, if you can't drop with the people in a unit you can't ever be recruited by them.

3.) It broke LFG. I tried to join LFG to get into a queue. We magically managed to gather together enough pilots for a drop, and when the group leader hit the button, it spit back an error and wouldn't launch us into a queue because the split queue didn't allow unitless pilots to actually play FP.

All we could do in the solo queue FP was sit in a queue for an infinite amount of time. I never managed to play a single god damn game after hours.. HOURS of trying to get into one.

Deathlike, on 20 November 2016 - 09:49 PM, said:

They wanted the MW4 weapon... in the absence of new weaposn since Clans were released in 2014. In MW4, it was an interesting weapon... a different mechanic from all the other weapons that have existed before it.

Noone asked for an automated blow up the group/game/queue weapon.

Yeah, the Mechwarrior 4 Long Tom was fun as hell.. especially on a Shadow Cat, even though it couldn't fit that much ammo.. or anything else along with the Tom.. They even made a range indicator so you could tell how high up you had to aim to hit a certain distance.



..but PGI pulled a PGI and, because they couldn't figure out how to do a split critical system, (LT would take up all the slots in both an arm and a torso, per MWO/TableTop build rules,) they thought it would be a brilliant idea to add it to the game as an NPC weapon.. with infinite range.. and with ~FIFTY TIMES THE DAMAGE THAT IT SHOULD DO.. which was totally a brilliant idea.

-----

I really miss playing FP. I still go look at the FP menu, everytime I login. Maybe, if I'm lucky, I'll be able to play four or five games a week, (from trying to queue for the mode almost every day.) Over 90% of my faction's active members have given up, and it's basically pure luck that I'll login to my faction's TeamSpeak server and actually see other people.. (which is expiring sometime in the next few weeks.. RIP:House Kurita.) Every once in a while some Mercenaries will join Kurita for two days, but they don't come onto the TS.. or invite us to theirs.. and barely say anything over IG-VOIP.. so, games with them aren't much different than joining up with Marik/Liao/Davion camo-green skittles.. that is, if they didn't bring their own 12-man and just end up stealing all of our drops.

Edited by AnTi90d, 20 November 2016 - 10:31 PM.

[naterist]

I think it recently got fixed pretty well. interest seems to be ever so slowly returning after all these events too. now it seems like in pug v pug, it can go either way, but coordination is the main thing over the blitzkriegs weve been seeing from the clans pre-Kodiak and uac nerf nowadays. so I think it just needs to get some time for people to stream back in, and the new content will probably help out when it comes out after mechcon.

[Speedkermit]

justcallme A S H, on 20 November 2016 - 09:50 PM, said:

1. Problem is - the deed is done, it took what, 6 months to fix LT after how many failed attempts?

Two other issues.

2. Single attack lane per cycle which lead to massively excessive wait times and killed off the vast majority of units activity right there and then.

3. 25% loyalty penalty, no further end game for loyalists where Mercs got a new path entirely




Those are the 3 things that killed FP off via a mass exodus of the population. All of them are a direct result of poor thought and engagement by PGI. No-one else's failing here, none of it was "requested" by the people in any great amount.

There are plenty of other sub issues, but those 3 are the core by far. One took 6 months to address and the other two nothing has been done about it.

Too little, too late.

Let's not forget the boring, repetitive gameplay on the same few maps that are just variations of left chokepoint, or right chokepoint.

[justcallme A S H]

Well given I see the same amount boring/repetitive game play on every QP map...

And in Phase 2, the population was still active.

I don't believe for a second that it is anywhere near as much of an issue for the player base as people make out.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 21 November 2016 - 11:02 AM.

[Harambe McHarambeface Kerensky]

You can't have a FW year in review without mentioning the SWOL Power Rankings

https://www.reddit.c...power_rankings/

[Bud Crue]

In re the OP's summary and the subsequent failure of CW phase 3, I think WAY too much emphasis is placed on the Long Tom as the prime suspect for killing the mode and not nearly enough attention is paid to the unit tax and the new merc rewards path. I think those latter two things did far more to kill the mode for existing players than the Long Tom.

In summary, I think all LT did was scare away steam players. That's bad, but the mode even without LT would have done the same thing. I mean how often do people complain that CW is not for new players. Heck there is even that cute little warning screen the first time you try it. LT hurt the NPE but that's about it.

I think the bigger problems of phase 3 are what the new mechanics did to the existing population, of which many thought the T was just something stupid to work around. No, I think that by punishing unit's ability to bring in members via the unit tax did a lot to really piss off some units and veteran players. Then add that to the new merc skills tree which encouraged the most dedicated players of the existing CW player base to cease being loyalists (most had already done their respective "grand tours" of the factions to get the majority of the free mech bays, and other rewards of the "loyalist" rewards) and become fully dedicated mercs, while at the same time removing the LP bonus form the loyalist reward path and you have a recipe for mass indifference and mass movement to a single path of mercenary, which lead in turn to utter imbalance of the mode.

There is obviously far more to it than that, but my point is LT didn't kill CW, but rather, PGI's failure to understand its own game mode, who plays it and why; and the subsequent mechanics they shoved into the game which exacerbated that failure and outright alienated many of those players; that is what killed CW.

[Oldbob10025]

Three year review...


WHERE IS THIS GAME? I would pay good money to play what they put out as a first look at Community Warfare back when they thought of the concept. The game they have now is something that russ is pulling out of umm you know what and if they dont pull something out of you know what after MechCon I know tons of people that will just give up.

Listen to the community, look I know they have a lot of script kitties and not enough programmers but they dont listen to the community and i'm sure EVERYONE would enjoy what they had planned vs what they have now...

Edited by Oldbob10025, 21 November 2016 - 07:06 AM.

[TercieI]

2016: The year CWFPWhatever's stillbirth became obvious for all to see.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Oldbob10025, on 21 November 2016 - 07:06 AM, said:

Three year review...


WHERE IS THIS GAME? I would pay good money to play what they put out as a first look at Community Warfare back when they thought of the concept. The game they have now is something that russ is pulling out of umm you know what and if they dont pull something out of you know what after MechCon I know tons of people that will just give up.

Listen to the community, look I know they have a lot of script kitties and not enough programmers but they dont listen to the community and i'm sure EVERYONE would enjoy what they had planned vs what they have now...

please explain to me why front warfare should be determined by pugs?

[LordNothing]

AnTi90d, on 20 November 2016 - 10:31 PM, said:

I started FP back in February and March, when I finally remembered that MWO existed and finally installed the game. I had a damn blast in FPv2. I read up on what to do in the forum posts and started my mechbay tour. I followed the caller's orders and learned how to play the mode. I got my first mechbay out of every single faction the day before FPv3 dropped onto the scene like a hot turd plopped onto the dinner table. Everything nosedived once Phase 3 hit.

The split queue was the 2nd worst thing that ever happened to FP players that had no unit. (The first being the Long Tom that caused many to permanently quit FP.)

1.) Wait times weren't long, they were infinite.. because we didn't even have 20 people queuing for an Invasion match. I sat in an Invasion queue for over a solid god damn hour and it never filled up past halfway.. during both NA primetime and SEA primetime. That's why people started making 1-man Mercenary units, so they could actually play FP, agian, because no one in the solo queue was allowed to play FP, anymore.

2.) It kept unitless pilots from being able to mingle with any units. No mingling = no recruitment = constantly shrinking playerbase as no new pilots are added and people are always quitting / getting bored with MWO / leaving to play other games. Everyone kept saying, "hurr.. join a unit..," but, if you can't drop with the people in a unit you can't ever be recruited by them.

3.) It broke LFG. I tried to join LFG to get into a queue. We magically managed to gather together enough pilots for a drop, and when the group leader hit the button, it spit back an error and wouldn't launch us into a queue because the split queue didn't allow unitless pilots to actually play FP.

All we could do in the solo queue FP was sit in a queue for an infinite amount of time. I never managed to play a single god damn game after hours.. HOURS of trying to get into one.

first off that totally needs to be a dekkle.

second i really only had 2 datapoints to go on. this is of course after i gave up on the freelancer mode. i went loyalist with liao of all factions because i was just a few points away from a mechbay on that faction, i had no intention of staying there and didnt mind the 25% penalty (it was only rank 6 when i deserted so not a huge loss). now liao is usually known as being a dead zone, so to my supprise when both of those games formed up fairly fast.

and another thing people fail to realize is that immediately after fp was released, much of the player base was doing scouting. think about it, you play the same modes for months, then a new one comes along, what are you going to play? scout queues were full down the board. no wonder invasion games were scarce! and for me those 2 invasion games happened and fairly quick for fp.

those games now were fun and engaging, people weren't hiding behind rocks in terror anymore. the whole flow of the game changes when you know the sides are fair. good brawls, good trade games, people were hitting objectives. the scores at the end were very close. had that kind of gameplay managed to persist through the event, many of them would have stayed. instead of "uhhh its ms again, screw it im just gonna try to score some points before i die, screw winning. when this event is over im done". long tom only multiplied that feeling by a hundred.

i do however agree on some of your points, you need some unit exposure. ive always complained about the lack of in game recruitment features. like a unit browser. but thats no reason not to have a split queue. i think if you could come up with a system that keeps unit pug exposure at around 50%, that would be really good for fp. you most certainly need to get away from separate attack and defend queues. thats just a defacto accidental sorting algorithm that puts pugs on one side and units on the other. single queue tug of war would be much better.

lfg never worked! the only time i ever seen it work was during an the one or two events that required you use it.

Edited by LordNothing, 21 November 2016 - 07:46 AM.

[BuckshotSchell]

You cant deny that the PUG stomps have also run lots of new players off. I expect them to happen, but I played FW for several months during phase 2 then stopped playing all together for almost a year and came back to phase 3, and the stomps became even more prevalent. As an example; Last night queued up with a bunch of other randos' at least 4 of which were first timers. The stomping was epic! One of them was a total troll who immediately insulted the DC by calling him a Euro P**SY and then cursed and swore at the whole team and the opponents, while team killing. The other three guys tried, but with no experience and lots of trial mechs it was hopeless and they were quickly asking if every match was like this. I tried to tell them it wasn't and the IS mechs while a bit under powered could win, if they got lucky enough to drop with decent premade with a decent drop caller, but I dont think this helped convince them to keep playing.

I really don't now how, or if this should be fixed, as I for one would not like to have to PUGvPUG all the time as I like dropping with some of the big units when I can, but noobs coming in are generally left with a sour taste of FW before they even get the chance to complain about the stuff we all complain about like; LT, lack of content, maps, and whatever else. They did notice that the team on defense has a rather unrealistic advantage do to the restrictive choke points. I really dont think the choke points are that big an issue personally. I thought it was interesting that when we tried to get everyone to group up, it was like the QP group up, with 10's of meters separation and we could not get them to understand the concept of the murder ball or all going together to a certain point etc.... The mode has a really steep learning curve as is, and the stomps dont help us bring in any new meat.

Edited by BuckshotSchell, 21 November 2016 - 07:58 AM.

[Marquis De Lafayette]

No year in review would be complete without mentioning the way Jade Falcon relentlessly burned their way through the inner sphere....

-intially, resistance was extremely fierce... valiant efforts were made by many loyalists to stop them and reclaim ground. PGI even helped those efforts a bit, by letting Davion loyalists go Steiner without penalty. Yet, nothing ultimately worked.

-Early on, long Tom was blamed as making it impossible to stop them. The clans owned the new scouting mode and had the ability to run scouting up to long Tom at will. Blunting successful resistance efforts.

-The IS nerf and rescale also hit and many IS loyalists seemingly lost any hope of stopping the advance in IS mechs. New merc units got formed by some of the best (formerly IS loyalist) units and those units went mostly to other clans in an effort to fight JF as Clanners.

-Some of the biggest and best IS loyalist units that didn't go Clan, went pretty dormant. The FRR, which had made large gains pushing CGB,CW & CSJ all back to a mere handful of planets begin to quickly give up all their gains from early phase 3 as the influx of talented Merc units to these clans combine with re-invigorated Clan loyalist units to go on the offensive in an attempt to drive to JF space for Clan vs. Clan fights.

-some argue the IS cannot stop the Clans due to a tech imbalance (KDK's-3 introduction,IS nerf, rescale,etc)....others argue that it's an active population imbalance (JF has too many players...merc contracts pushed to -50%. to effectively stop) and yet others argue that post-IS Nerf(rescale) that there has become a real talent imbalance (more talented teams/pilots are now playing the clan side...vs more PUGs/casuals on IS)....or some combination of those or other factors. Whatever the reason(s) actually are, the result is the same. The IS is pushed back anywhere a Clan makes a concerted effort to attack.

Edited by Marquis De Lafayette, 21 November 2016 - 10:03 AM.

[FallingAce]

Bud Crue, on 21 November 2016 - 05:09 AM, said:

In re the OP's summary and the subsequent failure of CW phase 3, I think WAY too much emphasis is placed on the Long Tom as the prime suspect for killing the mode and not nearly enough attention is paid to the unit tax and the new merc rewards path. I think those latter two things did far more to kill the mode for existing players than the Long Tom.

The OP was only meant to be a chronicle of Faction Warfare.

Where it started (Tukayyid)

Changes made(or lack of)

1 Tonnage changes first part of year.
2. Launch of Phase 3
3. Long Tom tuning.

Where it's going. (round table and podcast videos)

Other than launching phase 3, not much effort was put into F.W.

People can place emphasis on what they want.
My Second post, i mentioned long tom once.


As far a phase 3 goes, there are many threads on why it failed.

My List.
1. Long Tom
2. Repetitive game play. 6 maps that all play the same. Same missions, same objectives.
3. Balance

Clan vs IS
Nerfed the I.S. till the point where most Mercs won't touch the I.S. mechs
Population imbalances because most mercs jumped to the Clan side, Jade Falcon in particular.
Lead to a lot of Pug stomping and a Jade Falcon MERC Zerg rush through Steiner.

Merc vs loyalist
Loyalty penalties vs Merc Rewards

4. Poor rewards, limited buckits and the winner take all format. Not much incentive for small units unless your Kcom level.

[nehebkau]

I love how everyone goes off on tangents about who requested what.

Ace is right, really nothing has been done since v.3 was released in April. I think the biggest issue that PGI has been unable to address was balance (could drop weight changes/quirk changes be an admission of that?). Be it meta vs. non-meta, Clan scouts vs. IS scouts, 12-man vs. pug etc. etc. a game that doesn't feel (this word is important) balanced is going to bleed players.

Balance isn't in a spreadsheet and isn't found among competitive players -- it is out there among the low-to-moderate skill players who make up the majority of the population.

FW needed balance. It needed balance so that new people would feel comfortable coming in. It needed balance so that casual a gamer would feel fine about filling out a drop with their less-than-meta dropdeck. FW needed balance so that it would bring in and retain new players.

Long-tom just showed, clearly, what an imbalance does to your population -- they quit. FW's "Its hardcore mode so we don't need balance" strategy simply lent itself to the end result where the only players who were left were the very small number of hardcore players.

Edited by nehebkau, 21 November 2016 - 12:25 PM.

[Zolaz]

FP would be awesome if PGI could learn how to program and implement what they promised. Instead we get Russ and BW trying to kill off the game mode.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Zolaz, on 21 November 2016 - 10:26 PM, said:

FP would be awesome if PGI could learn how to program and implement what they promised. Instead we get Russ and BW trying to kill off the game mode.

your just complete hopeless.

I rather me and Russ fumble all day then leave anything to you, otherwise we would be sitting in the same spot while your singing but this is what "I.....I mean you wanted."

you have no clue how to to implement anything, otherwise you would take off those rose-tinted glasses of that stupid presentation.

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 22 November 2016 - 08:20 AM.

[Zolaz]

BLOOD WOLF, on 22 November 2016 - 08:09 AM, said:

your just complete hopeless.

I rather me and Russ fumble all day then leave anything to you, otherwise we would be sitting in the same spot while your singing but this is what "I.....I mean you wanted."

you have no clue to to program or implement anything, otherwise you take off those rose-tinted glasses of that stupid presentation.

Buck up little camper ... no one is completely hopeless, even you. Sounds like you need a hug.

I know it is strange in this day and age to expect people to do what they say. However, when it comes to PGI and what they promise, I think that a cynical and more pessimistic view of not believing them is valid. It has been proven over and over through the years. Unless you want to buy a mechpack. PGI can implement the hell out of selling you something while promising to fix something else.

I was an US Army Infantry and then Signal Corp Officer and trust me I know how to implement a plan. Some people accomplish tasks while others make excuses. But go right ahead and say whatever you want without facts or basis in reality, Im sure there is someone out there that will believe you.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Zolaz, on 22 November 2016 - 08:30 AM, said:

I was an US Army Infantry and then Signal Corp Officer and trust me I know how to implement a plan. Some people accomplish tasks while others make excuses. But go right ahead and say whatever you want without facts or basis in reality, Im sure there is someone out there that will believe you.

I am a philosophy major and my study is objective knowledge, also formal and informal logic. you can barely keep yourself on facts or reality without making something up. Must be what they taught you the he Army. I don't think I have done anything but put the facts on the table yet you are clearly in your own world and only accept things that you want, not was its true.

http://mwomercs.com/...11#entry5467211

here you go, made a summary of what was presented in FW and what we have now. An objective analysis because that is what my academic field is. You can't give me the truth without either being subjective and ignoring the things that would make you wrong, I guess the army taught you that right.

you don't know me or my personal life so go ahead and stuff it. Giving me that army speil as if you are the only that that has task to accomplish. I actually teach people to debate, teach them the methods of reasoning and help people become better critical thinkers. Who cares right, I am not in the army, and my life can be summarized on the forums.

I am not in the army, and I know how to think things critically, and examine all points of evidence. That is what my academic profession is leading to.

Once they get FW pegged, which at this point is all they really need to do,and judging by some of the changes I have heard they are going in the right direction, and that is according to more people than me.

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 22 November 2016 - 09:25 AM.

[Deathlike]

BLOOD WOLF, on 22 November 2016 - 09:19 AM, said:

Once they get FW pegged, which at this point is all they really need to do,and judging by some of the changes I have heard they are going in the right direction, and that is according to more people than me.

You are speaking for other people when that's not true at all.

Not even NGNG streams CW/FW, and they are a hired media arm of PGI (at least for those two people at the top of NGNG)... so that's very delusional, if not at least disingenuous.

[FallingAce]

BLOOD WOLF, on 22 November 2016 - 08:09 AM, said:

your just complete hopeless.

I rather me and Russ fumble all day then leave anything to you, otherwise we would be sitting in the same spot while your singing but this is what "I.....I mean you wanted."

you have no clue how to to implement anything, otherwise you would take off those rose-tinted glasses of that stupid presentation.

Sooo much irony in this post.

Small hint, proper grammar and punctuation would help. A coherent thought would be nice too.
"I rather me and Russ fumble all day then leave anything to you" no idea what that even meant.

Edited by FallingAce, 22 November 2016 - 12:17 PM.