18 replies to this topic

[boss642296ncc]

does it will work?

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...2757a2e94cd0a4c

or it would be better to build it?

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e51b4811c1272dc

Edited by boss642296ncc, 21 November 2016 - 02:38 AM.

[Audacious Aubergine]

Both are good, but you will need to be very careful with the large lasers on your first build, three of them will run very hot very quickly

[S 0 L E N Y A]

Build 2 is the better of the 2.

The first would be ok if you ditched the SRMs and went for either a bigger motor or more heat sinks.

Also, reduce your rear armor and place more on the front.

[The Basilisk]

Both builds are pointed in the right direction.
I know using as much hardpoints as possible is an alluring thought...but also its quite deceptive.

- Your first build with AC10, 3xLLas and 2SRM4 is too slow and too hot.
Further your are combining 3 kinds of weapons with quite different targeting properties and range profiles.
While range of LLas and AC match pretty well, both weaponsystems tend to build up a significant ammount of heat.
ACs due to their firing speed and Lasers because energy weapons produce lots of waste heat.
So you should either ditch the SRMs for bigger engine or for more heatsinks.
You also could ditch those lasers for two LPLs and an additional heatsink. ( don't be bothered by the reduced range you won't hit sh.. with those slow moving AC projectiles over 400m.
Result would look something like this.

- Your second build is better in terms of heat but also too slow.
There is a pretty slim bracket where big assaults do work well with standart engines its between 325 and 350 rating.
I tend to use either or and nothing in between because of the heatsink space efficiency (can carry an additional hitsink inside the engine every 25 engine rating.)
Also thats the first time I saw somebody placing TOO MUCH AC ammo on a mech 7-8 tonns will suffice (also placing 5T in one torso that contains nothing else to take crits ASSURES an ammo explosion), you won't live long enough anyway and drop those lasers when you fire quad UACs you won't want to fire them cause of heat and aiming.
Result would be this.
Still underarmored but there you go.

Here are two other possibilitys for you to try.
-- (2AC10, 3SRM4, 350 Engine)
-- (3LPLs, 3ASRM6, 350 Engine)

Edited by The Basilisk, 21 November 2016 - 03:37 AM.

[boss642296ncc]

Boogie138, on 21 November 2016 - 02:54 AM, said:

Build 2 is the better of the 2.

The first would be ok if you ditched the SRMs and went for either a bigger motor or more heat sinks.

Also, reduce your rear armor and place more on the front.

i just push stock armor button
and in brawl i dont use lasers

Edited by boss642296ncc, 21 November 2016 - 04:21 AM.

[Bohxim]

Prefer the uac5 ml combination better myself.
If you like, you can try 2 ac20 and a ppc for poking while you close. Pretty funny mech.

BTW, from personal experience, never go stock armor on assaults... almost always bad choice. They're either under armored or have too much back armor.

[boss642296ncc]

The Basilisk, on 21 November 2016 - 02:58 AM, said:

Both builds are pointed in the right direction.
I know using as much hardpoints as possible is an alluring thought...but also its quite deceptive.

- Your first build with AC10, 3xLLas and 2SRM4 is too slow and too hot.
Further your are combining 3 kinds of weapons with quite different targeting properties and range profiles.
While range of LLas and AC match pretty well, both weaponsystems tend to build up a significant ammount of heat.
ACs due to their firing speed and Lasers because energy weapons produce lots of waste heat.
So you should either ditch the SRMs for bigger engine or for more heatsinks.
You also could ditch those lasers for two LPLs and an additional heatsink. ( don't be bothered by the reduced range you won't hit sh.. with those slow moving AC projectiles over 400m.
Result would look something like this.

- Your second build is better in terms of heat but also too slow.
There is a pretty slim bracket where big assaults do work well with standart engines its between 325 and 350 rating.
I tend to use either or and nothing in between because of the heatsink space efficiency (can carry an additional hitsink inside the engine every 25 engine rating.)
Also thats the first time I saw somebody placing TOO MUCH AC ammo on a mech 7-8 tonns will suffice (also placing 5T in one torso that contains nothing else to take crits ASSURES an ammo explosion), you won't live long enough anyway and drop those lasers when you fire quad UACs you won't want to fire them cause of heat and aiming.
Result would be this.
Still underarmored but there you go.

Here are two other possibilitys for you to try.
-- (2AC10, 3SRM4, 350 Engine)
-- (3LPLs, 3ASRM6, 350 Engine)

so much ammo in one side torso because i dont want to spending time when building it for smurfy.

3xMLs on my second build just for alpha and for light mechs.

lls and ac 10s for 300+ metres and srms and ac 10s for close ranges

Bohxim, on 21 November 2016 - 04:23 AM, said:

Prefer the uac5 ml combination better myself.
If you like, you can try 2 ac20 and a ppc for poking while you close. Pretty funny mech.

BTW, from personal experience, never go stock armor on assaults... almost always bad choice. They're either under armored or have too much back armor.

in game i have 10 rear armor. be sure that i am not stupid

Edited by boss642296ncc, 21 November 2016 - 04:34 AM.

[boss642296ncc]

Bohxim, on 21 November 2016 - 04:23 AM, said:

Prefer the uac5 ml combination better myself.
If you like, you can try 2 ac20 and a ppc for poking while you close. Pretty funny mech.

BTW, from personal experience, never go stock armor on assaults... almost always bad choice. They're either under armored or have too much back armor.

now i am using 2 ac 20 and 2 LL. it is pretty fun but not effective because close range assault builds don't live long anyway

[The Basilisk]

boss642296ncc, on 21 November 2016 - 04:30 AM, said:

so much ammo in one side torso because i dont want to spending time when building it for smurfy.

3xMLs on my second build just for alpha and for light mechs.

lls and ac 10s for 300+ metres and srms and ac 10s for close ranges


in game i have 10 rear armor. be sure that i am not stupid

That thought...some wpns for range to soften up enemys and other weapons for close in ... looks sane and logical at first glance.
When you take a closer look you will realize you are carrying useless weight half of your time.
As long as you are not using it cause you are "softening up" enemys at longer ranges your SRM4 willbe dead weight and in addition a hazard to your self due to its ammo.
In fact carrying this atm useless weapon with you, hampers your usage of all other weapons at that time since it makes you either slow or hot or both.
As soon as you cross the 300m border your standart large lasers get highly ineffective due to beeing much more inefficient in terms of heat/tonnage/dammage ratio versus pulse or med standart lasers.
Again you are wasting tonnage this way.
At first glance you seem more flexible and more prepared for different situations.
Actually you are gimping yourself for ANY situation.

Further the very different firing mechanics of those three weapon families you want to carry haper your precisission in all but few situations.
AC10 on 400m needs half to 3 mech lengths leed on targets, LLaser needs non, SRMs...don't work.
Only situation where you would alpha those weapons would be at point blank.

Any mech that you see among the high performers is one of the mechs that are able to be effective inside a certain range bracket with at most 2 kinds (sometimes 3kinds) of weapons.

Thats also the reason why mechs that would have been considdered highly effective due to their flexibility (boots are easy to neutralize since they are too situational) in Battletech are absolutely underperforming in MWO when they don't have enough hardpoints to do either or.

Last but not least it remains to say the reason for this odd logic is the outright wrong implementation and translation of Weapons, targeting and mechanics from Battletech.
Don't get worked up over this just accept it.

Edited by The Basilisk, 21 November 2016 - 05:57 AM.

[Valtica]

Well because we're discussing KGC, does my build ok? so far im doing ok with it.

KGC-000B

[The Basilisk]

EinstZecksclaw, on 21 November 2016 - 05:57 AM, said:

Well because we're discussing KGC, does my build ok? so far im doing ok with it.

KGC-000B

Wow...XL on a Kingcrab AND the need to get in close for those ACs to be effective.....

NOPE

[Valtica]

The Basilisk, on 21 November 2016 - 06:00 AM, said:

Wow...XL on a Kingcrab AND the need to get in close for those ACs to be effective.....

NOPE

Well because from my experience using STD i mostly killed by losing CT and both hands, so i concluded that i might be off with XL and it works ... at least for me....

[TheLuc]

Hi Boss642296ncc, I got some suggestions for both builds.

Build 1 with 3 Large Lasers : http://mwo.smurfy-ne...7b51db2727c9281

Build 2 with 4 Autocannons : http://mwo.smurfy-ne...836f620c9917a54

A note for EinstZechsclaw, I tried to keep basic idea, so maybe this would be fun for you, http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ca714a1fa60ac30

[Tier5 Kerensky]

EinstZecksclaw, on 21 November 2016 - 06:14 AM, said:

Well because from my experience using STD i mostly killed by losing CT and both hands, so i concluded that i might be off with XL and it works ... at least for me....

That's because you don't torso twist at all while brawling with those AC20s. But since you already have one with XL engine you can continue to run with it, but when you are improving and trying to improve the mech, don't think about buying another sided XL for it, switch into standard engine. Hopefully you will learn to torso twist fast and then you will see it yourself that XL doesn't really work well.

Few tips:
AC20s generate "ghost heat" when more than one is fired at same time.
Any weapon combination that incur this extra heat penalty, will have a warning in mechlab about "resulting higher than normal heat spike". Click the triangle over the mech data to see it. The symbol of temperature gauge refers to that. That applies for double tapping ultra autocannons too when you fire over the limit, which usually won't have that warning. But only Clan mechs since IS UAC5 does not have ghost heat limit and that's the only ultra AC they have.

"Same time" means 0.5 seconds, so it's easy to fire one AC20, then other. Half a second goes really fast. You can like fire one, twist your torso quickly briefly, then fire another and twist other side.

But if you fire same time, it will cause extra heat. You can do it few times OK, but when brawling againts another assult, you will build up heat too fast and it will reduce your damage output. So try to avoid it at all times.


"Normal" non-ER PPCs have a minium range of 90 meters. Make sure you never fire them at that range or you will just take heat from firing them but create no damage. It's possible you knew of this already. Not really a big deal when you have 2xAC20s, those are your close range weapons anyway.

TheLuc, on 21 November 2016 - 06:21 AM, said:

A note for EinstZechsclaw, I tried to keep basic idea, so maybe this would be fun for you, http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ca714a1fa60ac30

As beginner he probably doesn't have extra engines or need any, and it came with 300 STD engine, so any suggestions should be around that as engines are expensive.

Edited by Teer Kerensky, 21 November 2016 - 08:41 AM.

[S 0 L E N Y A]

boss642296ncc, on 21 November 2016 - 04:18 AM, said:

and in brawl i dont use lasers

That may be a mistake if you make it a hard and fast rule.
Use every weapon you can, provided it will not cause you to overheat

[Bohxim]

^I second this but sometimes u get pushed in succession and you don't get time to cool off unfortunately

[S 0 L E N Y A]

Bohxim, on 21 November 2016 - 07:00 PM, said:

^I second this but sometimes u get pushed in succession and you don't get time to cool off unfortunately

True.
Key word there is sometimes, hence I warned against making hard and fast rules.

[Valtica]

Teer Kerensky, on 21 November 2016 - 08:38 AM, said:

That's because you don't torso twist at all while brawling with those AC20s. But since you already have one with XL engine you can continue to run with it, but when you are improving and trying to improve the mech, don't think about buying another sided XL for it, switch into standard engine. Hopefully you will learn to torso twist fast and then you will see it yourself that XL doesn't really work well.

Few tips:
AC20s generate "ghost heat" when more than one is fired at same time.
Any weapon combination that incur this extra heat penalty, will have a warning in mechlab about "resulting higher than normal heat spike". Click the triangle over the mech data to see it. The symbol of temperature gauge refers to that. That applies for double tapping ultra autocannons too when you fire over the limit, which usually won't have that warning. But only Clan mechs since IS UAC5 does not have ghost heat limit and that's the only ultra AC they have.

"Same time" means 0.5 seconds, so it's easy to fire one AC20, then other. Half a second goes really fast. You can like fire one, twist your torso quickly briefly, then fire another and twist other side.

But if you fire same time, it will cause extra heat. You can do it few times OK, but when brawling againts another assult, you will build up heat too fast and it will reduce your damage output. So try to avoid it at all times.


"Normal" non-ER PPCs have a minium range of 90 meters. Make sure you never fire them at that range or you will just take heat from firing them but create no damage. It's possible you knew of this already. Not really a big deal when you have 2xAC20s, those are your close range weapons anyway.

As beginner he probably doesn't have extra engines or need any, and it came with 300 STD engine, so any suggestions should be around that as engines are expensive.

Thanks for the advice, i used the AC20 in chain fire so it should be ok. I need to get used to torso twisting after attack , sometimes i do it sometimes i forgot it >.<.

The only problem with KGC is i kinda dislike the low mount hand weapon hardpoint, maybe its because im too used with higher position hardpoint of my Warhammer and Kodiak as i usually use the hand hardpoint as secondary weapon with my main weapon is in high mount and this caused some problem when i pilot the KGC.

As for my Marauder because my main weapon is in RT that is on same height as the cockpit i doesnt have the same problem as i did with KGC.

[Flak Kannon]

Do not bother with Medium lasers on the 4 uac5 build. You dont need the extra heat.

Plus, 3 more tons of ammo.

You'll go through ammo fast.


I also would only equip the 2 DHS in the center torso engine slots, freeing up yet another ton of Ammo.

So instead of 11 tons, you now have 15 tons or 450 rounds. That 110 alphas.

I have broken the 1400 damage threshold with this mech many times in the past.




Enjoi