20 replies to this topic

[Xetelian]

<redacted link>

Noticed it has LRM10 in both shoulders, didn't see an AS7 on Sarna with this when I checked, the Jedra had SRM4 in each shoulder but that wasn't a standard variant.


Thought this was cool, saw the ad on facebook.


Does anyone actually own a 3D printer around here?

Edited by Alexander Garden, 22 November 2016 - 04:53 PM.
Redacted link to article advertising services which attempt to sell MWO models

[Wintersdark]

I do, and am currently working on getting an Urbanmech model fixed up enough to print. However, this is much harder than you may anticipate.

The problem is that the MWO 3D models are exported as .obj files, are are hollow meshes. There's no easy way to make them solid, but 3D Printers need solid objects to print. What happens is you need to find all the "errors" in the meshes and fix them.

I'm competent with CAD work, but am totally helpless with tools like Blender.

I suspect some of the older models are a lot easier - lower poly counts and less holes in them - and lots of people printed Atlases, Jenners, and the like.

But, I'm working on it, and pretty determined to make it happen.

[RestosIII]

0/10, not an Adder, Mad Dog, Summoner, Timber Wolf, or Warhawk.

[Wintersdark]

RestosIII, on 21 November 2016 - 09:07 PM, said:

0/10, not an Adder, Mad Dog, Summoner, Timber Wolf, or Warhawk.

Urbanmech. Who doesn't want a desk Urbie?! After that, probably a Timberwolf, because of course.

Though if I were less crazy, I'd be printing the older IS mechs which are a lot easier to work with. Alas.

[RestosIII]

Wintersdark, on 21 November 2016 - 09:14 PM, said:

Urbanmech. Who doesn't want a desk Urbie?! After that, probably a Timberwolf, because of course.

Though if I were less crazy, I'd be printing the older IS mechs which are a lot easier to work with. Alas.

Let's compromise and say that we need a 3D printed Union drooship, aka the Urbanmech of dropships.

[Spheroid]

They're monetizing the mesh? That doesn't seem legal.

[Wintersdark]

RestosIII, on 21 November 2016 - 09:19 PM, said:

Let's compromise and say that we need a 3D printed Union drooship, aka the Urbanmech of dropships.

Oh, yes indeed. I'd love a dropship and lance of mechs on my desk.

[Wintersdark]

Spheroid, on 21 November 2016 - 09:20 PM, said:

They're monetizing the mesh? That doesn't seem legal.

Huh? No. What gave you that idea?

It's just very hard - not hard as in legal issues, hard as in just difficult to do - to get the mesh printable.

From a legal angle, you just can't sell the printed models.

Because it's just a mesh, just a skin of polygons, and it's full of holes. An object to be 3D printed needs to be solid (with some exceptions, but for a model like a mech, it needs to be solid), and there's not an easy way to do that. You'd think it would be easy, but... No. It's really not.

Some of the meshes are better made than others, and are pretty easy to prep - the Atlas, Jenner, and Centurion for example take well to printing - at least, I've seen a lot of successful prints of them.

I really ought to put my beloved Urbie aside for a bit and try another one first. I've heard the Battlemaster works out pretty well.

[Spheroid]

@Wintersdark: That was not the consensus three years ago. As the object already has been created how can a fee be anything other than profit?


http://mwomercs.com/...mwo-miniatures/

[Peter2k]

Wintersdark, on 21 November 2016 - 09:24 PM, said:

Huh? No. What gave you that idea?

You can buy the STL file for 30$ under the link provided if you follow through it a little
Timber, warhammer, marauder and a few more

[Wintersdark]

Sadly, the Kodiak is looking to be entirely a non-starter That makes me so sad.

[Wintersdark]

Spheroid, on 21 November 2016 - 09:39 PM, said:

@Wintersdark: That was not the consensus three years ago. As the object already has been created how can a fee be anything other than profit?


http://mwomercs.com/...mwo-miniatures/

A guy (Sentinel) made those - he did the work that I'm referring to above, and then selling the .STL's produced from that work. It's a lot of work, really not easy, and it requires some decent 3D modelling (not CAD) skills. Sadly, I lack those 3D modelling skills, so it's very difficult for me.

He's selling them - not PGI - and sure, it's profit for him, but it's profit after many hours of labour making them 3D printable, because the MWO art assets are not directly 3D printable.

Edit: My bad, didn't follow the OP's link, as that wasn't the part of his post I responded to.

Anyways, yeah, selling the models is definitely illegal, selling the STL's is probably illegal.

But either way, you can't just print the MWO art assets, they need to be converted to 3D printable objects, and that takes labour.

Edited by Wintersdark, 21 November 2016 - 10:04 PM.

[DiabetesOverlord Wilford Brimley]

Wintersdark, on 21 November 2016 - 09:50 PM, said:

A guy (Sentinel) made those - he did the work that I'm referring to above, and then selling the .STL's produced from that work. It's a lot of work, really not easy, and it requires some decent 3D modelling (not CAD) skills. Sadly, I lack those 3D modelling skills, so it's very difficult for me.

He's selling them - not PGI - and sure, it's profit for him, but it's profit after many hours of labour making them 3D printable, because the MWO art assets are not directly 3D printable.

Still illegal.

[Wintersdark]

Anyone with that skillset can make printable objects though, ultimately you just have to make the model "watertight"; fill all the holes PGI left to increase rendering performance. But there are LOTS of holes, and lots of mesh edges that appear to touch but don't actually touch.

For example, the Urbanmech model when combined into a single model (each MWO mech is actually dozens of separate objects that need to be combined together) has hundreds of holes, and a lot of regions that Meshmixer can't determine which side is inside and which side is outside.

I certainly don't blame him for selling the STL's he made, as that's a lot of work, many many hours even as a professional CG artist. I suppose he can sell the STL's, anyways; I know you can't sell the physical objects due to licensing issues, but the STL's probably, so long as PGI didn't object.

DiabetesOverlord Wilford Brimley, on 21 November 2016 - 09:53 PM, said:

Still illegal.

It's probably illegal for him to sell the STL's he made; I don't profess to know the ins and outs of the licensing and IP law there. I'm not arguing it IS legal for him to sell them; merely was curious where Sphereoid went with his comment as it didn't seem to reference anything that was said in this thread at all.

Just because some random dude was selling STL's is pretty irrelevant to the grand scheme of things.

---

Oh, my bad. I didn't follow the OP's link

I see where I'm confused, and it's all on me.

Yeah, that's definitely illegal; unless they got licensing from all those sources... which I doubt strongly.

Anyways, it IS legal to print the models yourself. You just can't sell them.

Just like it's legal to make papercraft MWO models if you want, or draw pictures of them. You can't sell them commerically though.

[DiabetesOverlord Wilford Brimley]

Wintersdark, on 21 November 2016 - 10:02 PM, said:

Anyone with that skillset can make printable objects though, ultimately you just have to make the model "watertight"; fill all the holes PGI left to increase rendering performance. But there are LOTS of holes, and lots of mesh edges that appear to touch but don't actually touch.

For example, the Urbanmech model when combined into a single model (each MWO mech is actually dozens of separate objects that need to be combined together) has hundreds of holes, and a lot of regions that Meshmixer can't determine which side is inside and which side is outside.

I certainly don't blame him for selling the STL's he made, as that's a lot of work, many many hours even as a professional CG artist. I suppose he can sell the STL's, anyways; I know you can't sell the physical objects due to licensing issues, but the STL's probably, so long as PGI didn't object.


It's probably illegal for him to sell the STL's he made; I don't profess to know the ins and outs of the licensing and IP law there. I'm not arguing it IS legal for him to sell them; merely was curious where Sphereoid went with his comment as it didn't seem to reference anything that was said in this thread at all.

Just because some random dude was selling STL's is pretty irrelevant to the grand scheme of things.

---

Oh, my bad. I didn't follow the OP's link

I see where I'm confused, and it's all on me.

Yeah, that's definitely illegal; unless they got licensing from all those sources... which I doubt strongly.

Anyways, it IS legal to print the models yourself. You just can't sell them.

Just like it's legal to make papercraft MWO models if you want, or draw pictures of them. You can't sell them commerically though.

yup all good man

[Sjorpha]

Definitely illegal to sell the model like on that site.

That doesn't mean PGI is interested in pursuing the case though. Both the buyers and seller are fans of MWO and it's not bad advertising for the game just to have the models out there,

[The6thMessenger]

Strange, there was a Right-torso missile hardpoint?

[Tier5 Kerensky]

Sjorpha, on 22 November 2016 - 01:24 AM, said:

Definitely illegal to sell the model like on that site.

That doesn't mean PGI is interested in pursuing the case though. Both the buyers and seller are fans of MWO and it's not bad advertising for the game just to have the models out there,

Agree on both counts. In some cases IP such as art can be used to create derivative works which become their individual work and don't depend on the original.

https://en.wikipedia...Derivative_work

But in this case it's an exact copy. There is no creative element in making the copy.

And it's 100% sure someone is going to pirate that 3D printing instructions for less price, or for free.

[Wintersdark]

Teer Kerensky, on 22 November 2016 - 02:39 AM, said:

Agree on both counts. In some cases IP such as art can be used to create derivative works which become their individual work and don't depend on the original.

https://en.wikipedia...Derivative_work

But in this case it's an exact copy. There is no creative element in making the copy.

And it's 100% sure someone is going to pirate that 3D printing instructions for less price, or for free.

It's not an exact copy. It looks the same, but substantial modifications must be made.

But I'd agree, substantial modifications or not, you're still making a physical copy of the game assets, so there's no way you could sell that legally. Of course, this is one of those things where it depends if PGI (or, more accurately, Microsoft or maybe even someone else; I'm not sure who owns the rights for that in particular) decides to sue.

[S 0 L E N Y A]

They are selling a derivative work.

could be kinda iffy in this instance.