333 replies to this topic

[Ibrandul Mike]

cazidin, on 25 November 2016 - 06:49 PM, said:

Bait? Sir, I am no troll - nor are any of us here, except that one guy but we ignored him (read; banished under a bridge). So far, yeah... I'm getting the feeling that our grievances are just being handwaved away. That's a very bad feeling to leave any customer with.

As for you, well, I hope you've enjoyed the game so far, sincerely. I started about 4-6 months before you.

You don't have to be a troll to bait... but I got you and that it wasn't meant as bait.
Please don't call me sir, that should be for people that have earned the respect. At least as far as I am concerned (and some people I respect and still wouldn't call them sir).

Perhaps we could discuss why you have that feeling per PM and search for a solution. The topic is derailed enough. Even our little talk here is derailing it further.
And yes I know that feeling very well...

I am enjoying the game and most of the time the community. One of the reasons I am still a volunteer moderator.
I still think around the time I started playing was the best time to get into the game. There is a lot of change (not every time to the better in my opinion, but hey change) and new stuff was added... so while I can understand the players that have played it since the alpha/beta and their frustration, I can't say that I feel the same way.

PGI needs to communicate a lot more and better is what I read in the forums quite often. And I agree.
The patch notes with explanations are a good start.
We should be well aware that answering every post or every thread won't happen. Not even the big names in the business are doing that... and PGI would need a lot of people to get something like that done. That is too much money that would be better invested in new maps (please for FP too!), new game modes (including something like PvE, Solaris...), a FP overhaul and so on.
Perhaps we would need people to filter the needs and wishes of the community? Some people that help the community manager and the devs to get constructive criticism without the salt, the threats (wallet closed if not... leaving if not... just to mention two) and so on. I am just doing volunteer work and the forums sometimes pull me down or make me aggressive and I know for sure that most players (that at least read the forums) get affected too. Now try to think how it has to be for the devs or the CM. Don't get me wrong. I am not saying that as an excuse for PGI not being open or forward enough or to say that things are ok or that we as a community are just whiners (that are all examples, not the words of PGI... just in case someone tries to read "he said PGI said that..." into it). PGI has to work on their communication, in my opinion. But we have to work on ours too.
We can't even agree on what is wrong with MW:O. Balance? Queue times? FP? Game modes? The match maker? Everything? Then we get stuck on old stuff like the PGI/IGP thing. That doesn't get us anywhere.
Make MW:O great again? Reading the forums MW:O was never great. I like MW:O, I have fun. For me it is a great game. Do we as a community have the right to ask questions? Of course. Should we give feedback? Hell yes! Do we have to act like we are idiots or selfish or [pick something negative] while doing that? Not really.
Would write more, but I doubt many will read that wall of text anyway... and I need to shoot some mechs

[cazidin]

Ibrandul Mike, on 25 November 2016 - 08:14 PM, said:

You don't have to be a troll to bait... but I got you and that it wasn't meant as bait.
Please don't call me sir, that should be for people that have earned the respect. At least as far as I am concerned (and some people I respect and still wouldn't call them sir).

Perhaps we could discuss why you have that feeling per PM and search for a solution. The topic is derailed enough. Even our little talk here is derailing it further.
And yes I know that feeling very well...

I am enjoying the game and most of the time the community. One of the reasons I am still a volunteer moderator.
I still think around the time I started playing was the best time to get into the game. There is a lot of change (not every time to the better in my opinion, but hey change) and new stuff was added... so while I can understand the players that have played it since the alpha/beta and their frustration, I can't say that I feel the same way.

PGI needs to communicate a lot more and better is what I read in the forums quite often. And I agree.
The patch notes with explanations are a good start.
We should be well aware that answering every post or every thread won't happen. Not even the big names in the business are doing that... and PGI would need a lot of people to get something like that done. That is too much money that would be better invested in new maps (please for FP too!), new game modes (including something like PvE, Solaris...), a FP overhaul and so on.
Perhaps we would need people to filter the needs and wishes of the community? Some people that help the community manager and the devs to get constructive criticism without the salt, the threats (wallet closed if not... leaving if not... just to mention two) and so on. I am just doing volunteer work and the forums sometimes pull me down or make me aggressive and I know for sure that most players (that at least read the forums) get affected too. Now try to think how it has to be for the devs or the CM. Don't get me wrong. I am not saying that as an excuse for PGI not being open or forward enough or to say that things are ok or that we as a community are just whiners (that are all examples, not the words of PGI... just in case someone tries to read "he said PGI said that..." into it). PGI has to work on their communication, in my opinion. But we have to work on ours too.
We can't even agree on what is wrong with MW:O. Balance? Queue times? FP? Game modes? The match maker? Everything? Then we get stuck on old stuff like the PGI/IGP thing. That doesn't get us anywhere.
Make MW:O great again? Reading the forums MW:O was never great. I like MW:O, I have fun. For me it is a great game. Do we as a community have the right to ask questions? Of course. Should we give feedback? Hell yes! Do we have to act like we are idiots or selfish or [pick something negative] while doing that? Not really.
Would write more, but I doubt many will read that wall of text anyway... and I need to shoot some mechs

Generally speaking, it is implied that, if you say someone is baiting that they're a troll but you're right. I apologize for the assumption on my part and as per your request I shall refrain from referring to you by a title however, and while I am most often open to private discussion, I believe that my grievances are related to the topic originally raised by the OP.

As I've said it innumerable times, and it's getting tedious to the rest of you just as it is to me I'm sure, I shall repeat briefly that my grievance with PGI is a lack of transparency, communication and a general understanding of just why the players are upset or even how to respond to us.

They are like Roman Senators up on a high hill, far and away removed from the peasant farmers and centurions that protect their lives with their own. When I or any, mere members of the lower class of laborers, request an audience with them - and it is granted, we are quickly turned away. Words do not matter. Feelings do not matter. We filthy commoners are and belong on an island. Oh, but, hey, I'm running for re-election for the senate. How about a shiny mechpack to help me stay in power? That, Mike, is the problem to me.

Yeah, you can't respond to everyone and we all have a different opinion on how this game should go. I know that you cannot take it purely on my word, but from my experience in leadership positions I've learned that it is wisest to listen to *all* counsel and then make up your own mind. Great leaders will often have their own vision and change it only slightly to incorporate truly amazing ideas.

But, back to the lack of response. We just want some communication. Maybe one thread a day, maybe one a week from Russ but we have a Community Manager who seems to be largely absent from the public eye. Perhaps she handles matters discretely, that's fine but she's done nothing to dispel her perception and likely won't. Again, no disrespect to Tina.

I do think of this from the mind of a dev. I know there's a LOT that goes into making video games, just the code to run the simplest engine, the time it takes for the smallest animation, it's staggering but again, we have people who should, as per their job description, communicate with us at least on Russ' behalf and represent the company and clearly define the vision. If we knew PGI's vision, even if we disagreed with it, we could respect it and move on. Maybe even suggest better ideas in line with said vision.

I know what I want from MW:O. I know where I'd like it to go but I also know that I'm not the Balance Overlord. I read your wall of text. Write as much as you want. Please understand that whatever anger or passion I have over this subject is not directed at all to you, and I bare absolutely zero ill will towards you. Just like Tina, Bombadill, etc, you are very probably a nice guy.

[ice trey]

Prosperity Park, on 24 November 2016 - 09:19 AM, said:

The BattleTech crowd loves these designs because it drags the battle out longer since they are poor-performing combat vehicles.

I think you're putting words in mouths.

If any argument for "poor performing combat vehicles" existed, it'd me more for levelling the playing field so that everything is more or less balanced, rather than the current situation of "Top 10% stuff gets used, players complain there aren't enough mechs while 90% of stuff doesn't see use at all outside of Tier 5"

But mostly, what you've got here is a game borrowing from an established franchise that people have held dear for more than 30 years now. While the tourists who show up here only because this is a free-to-play title and couldn't have been arsed to pick up so much as a novel or TRO in the decade between this and MechWarrior 4, the rest of us have been actively keeping a living, breathing, growing universe alive. The succession wars and clan invasions have a flavor all their own, and while people who've only ever played a PC game that one time bleat for stuff that is either obscure that less than a dozen would still exist because it'll one-up the current meta with high hardpoints, or for stuff way out of era, like Uziels and Madcat Mk. IIs because they think it looks cool(Which might as well be asking for Apache Helicopters in a WW.1 simulator), there are tons of designs that are staples of the universe, supposed to be common place that are getting passed over and ignored. Meanwhile, House Davion still doesn't have a staple light mech (Javelin/Valkyrie), The Mariks don't have their most mass-produced machine, the Hermes II, there's absolutely no word coming down the pipe of the Charger, Whitworth, or Clint, though the Assassin is a step in the right direction.

Besides that, anything that starts to smell a little bit of the lore that this game is constantly getting gutted from is a breath of fresh air. We used to have lore newsfeeds and tales of a living, breathing mechwarrior MMO with worlds to fight over. What we got is leaderboards and a half-dozen flavors of team deathmatch - and tourists attracted here that actually want that over and over because that's who PGI catered to.

At the very least, I've got HBS/Catalyst Island left, though if the Mechwarrior/Battletech franchise is such a burden to the community's experience, it'd be really great if all the Fasa/Catalyst designed mechs in this game were stripped out and replaced with robots shaped like flatfish with legs and a tank turret on top.

Edited by ice trey, 25 November 2016 - 09:11 PM.

[Bombast]

ice trey, on 25 November 2016 - 09:10 PM, said:

Spoiler

But mostly, what you've got here is a game borrowing from an established franchise that people have held dear for more than 30 years now. While the tourists who show up here only because this is a free-to-play title and couldn't have been arsed to pick up so much as a novel or TRO in the decade between this and MechWarrior 4, the rest of us have been actively keeping a living, breathing, growing universe alive. The succession wars and clan invasions have a flavor all their own, and while people who've only ever played a PC game that one time bleat for stuff that is either obscure that less than a dozen would still exist because it'll one-up the current meta with high hardpoints, or for stuff way out of era, like Uziels and Madcat Mk. IIs because they think it looks cool(Which might as well be asking for Apache Helicopters in a WW.1 simulator), there are tons of designs that are staples of the universe, supposed to be common place that are getting passed over and ignored. Meanwhile, House Davion still doesn't have a staple light mech (Javelin/Valkyrie), The Mariks don't have their most mass-produced machine, the Hermes II, there's absolutely no word coming down the pipe of the Charger, Whitworth, or Clint, though the Assassin is a step in the right direction.

Besides that, anything that starts to smell a little bit of the lore that this game is constantly getting gutted from is a breath of fresh air. We used to have lore newsfeeds and tales of a living, breathing mechwarrior MMO with worlds to fight over. What we got is leaderboards and a half-dozen flavors of team deathmatch - and tourists attracted here that actually want that over and over because that's who PGI catered to.

At the very least, I've got HBS/Catalyst Island left, though if the Mechwarrior/Battletech franchise is such a burden to the community's experience, it'd be really great if all the Fasa/Catalyst designed mechs in this game were stripped out and replaced with robots shaped like flatfish with legs and a tank turret on top.

Jesus, dude. I came here to talk about stompy robots and have a laugh, not have my soul lain bare.

Just... right in the feels.

[Prototelis]

Green Mamba, on 25 November 2016 - 03:46 PM, said:

He has July 16' join date

Hmmm no, thats the only me.

I didn't have a PC to play on until late last year, I've been following the game off and on for a long time.

[Lyoto Machida]

RedDragon, on 25 November 2016 - 03:30 AM, said:

On the other hand, no one at PGI noticed that the new minimap would be a debacle. Or that the Long Tom would ruin the game. Or that LRMs were terribly overpowered for weeks during LRMgeddon, Or that ECM was like God mode (for years) ... I think you know where I'm going with this.

Poptart meta? Clan arm actuators broken due to AC2 ghost heat? Similarity of PGI/IGP acronyms? Etc etc?

[Peter2k]

Prototelis, on 25 November 2016 - 10:04 PM, said:

Hmmm no, thats the only me.

I didn't have a PC to play on until late last year, I've been following the game off and on for a long time.

If someone on the forum mentioned being on an island - you're getting what they are talking about and where it came from?

If not you should not engage in a discussion about how PGI is doing it's communication
You haven't seen the few ups and many downs over the years


This thread at its heart is only about the following

For years we've been trying to get some response from someone on a lot of issues

And it takes a tinfoil thread, of an issue no one actually gives something about any more, for 2 heads of the studio and 2 employees (counting Bombadil as well) and a handful of moderators to show up

Like Kin3ticX posted it a few pages ago

Someone post this thread in FP as well
PGI might show up there finally

Edited by Peter2k, 26 November 2016 - 01:21 AM.

[Bud Crue]

Peter2k, on 26 November 2016 - 01:19 AM, said:

This thread at its heart is only about the following

For years we've been trying to get some response from someone on a lot of issues

And it takes a tinfoil thread, of an issue no one actually gives something about any more, for 2 heads of the studio and 2 employees (counting Bombadil as well) and a handful of moderators to show up...

What I learned from this thread is that in the future when I complain about anything that I think the Dev's should be paying attention to, I fully intend to include with every single post a statement about how I am now convinced PGI and IGP are or were the same company based on what I heard from a community manager. If it triggered them to get in here, maybe we can repeat the performance when we are discussing something we actually care about, like ya know: balance, this game and its current state, applying the nerf hammer to all mechs of a chassis instead of just the one causing the problem...that sort of thing.

I mean if that's what it takes to get them to actually pay attention to their customers in this unprecedented manner (that unprecedented aspect is just one more reason to be angry in my opinion) then I think that is what we all need to do. Maybe if we talked about Hockey too? That might get Russ in here on occasion as well. Anybody know what Paul is into? These people may not care about their product or their customers, but if we want them to try, I guess we need to find other four year old issues to poke at them with.

Edited by Bud Crue, 26 November 2016 - 05:07 AM.

[C E Dwyer]

East Indy, on 25 November 2016 - 11:51 AM, said:

Almost all of the most critical posters are still loading up MWO, dropping in matches, and spending cash.

That's a happy ending.

Yup that would be me, or was me, it still might be, as mech con decides.

I don't have to justify why, but I will.

The main reason is selfish P.G.I build mechs that might arrive at a later date as D.L.C for H.B.S's battle tech, if the game folds those are far less likely to happen.

There is some real talent at P.G.I hamstrung by bad leadership choices. some have families, cutting the funds needed to keep them in jobs, hurts those that don't deserve to be punished because I despise the people in charge of the game.

It's Stompy Robots and as much as I've worked on some great military projects in the past, and my love of all things that go boom. the 3025 period of the BattleTech knocks the likes of Spitfires, Challenger tanks, HMS Victory, out the park, and out of sight, and 3050 is still filled with many of the robbits I like best.

I can log in between breakfast and work and do a drop if I feel the need, because matches usually last 10 minutes and sadly less, I can't do that with any other game, because I'm looking at 20 minutes minimum,the only reason bad MM is actually a benefit.

I've invested a lot of money into Mechwarrior, and if declines to the point even the North American servers close, that's an investment I can no longer draw on, there are no real memories you can share, and while you can make friends they all disburse into other games, even the good memories are on borrowed time in a PC game, unlike the memories of people you can shake a hand, go drinking with, and at times punch in the face.

I can make the list twice as large, but that will just give some people more of a chance to argue with me or call me stupid for reason xyz.

Since me last post on these boards, I've logged in to do what are now the dailies, I'm going to log in again today and play a 100 match point game, and then I'm off for the day, to forget about this game until tomorrow, I'm going to do that until the grid iron is in my inventory, then I'll have no need to come here though I might throw in a few games.

I'm waiting on the alleged big thing at Mechcon, as I said in my last post, if it's just vapour of big thing late in 2017 I'm refunding my pre orders, and even then I've got so much premium time sitting around, I'm still going to use it up. If it's something finished and ready to roll out in January I'm staying and paying, to see how it works, if it works.

Whether when BattleTech beta comes out next year, my time here declines to the point of not being worth keeping on my PC remains an unknown

[Kaspirikay]

hi guys, can someone do a quick checkpoint summary of what happened in the past 14 pages? thanks

[Bud Crue]

Kaspirikay, on 26 November 2016 - 06:28 AM, said:

hi guys, can someone do a quick checkpoint summary of what happened in the past 14 pages? thanks

Someone observed that the NGNG guys in one of the podcasts implied that PGI and IGP were the same entity at one point.

Community members (CM) mocked this, said "duh" or dismissed it.

For some reason three Devs including lord "I know best" himeself Russ Bullock felt obligated to join us in an unprecedented showing of PGI love to note that the whole four year old PGI/IGP relationship was long over and that they were always different entities and that to assert otherwise is a no good naughty lie. Russ indicated that the NGNG guys clearly misspoke but that in any case they were "simply words".

Community members (CM) mocked this, said "duh" or dismissed it; and then some of us, perhaps irrationally focused on Russ's "simply words" comment and took it as yet another slight to the community as well as an admission that PGI and Russ in particular lack any sense of honesty in how they deal with this product or its customers since after all anything they say or promise is "simply words".

Then moderators, the NGNG, and like 2 CMs attempted to defend PGI's track record, Russ's actual comment, and the overall environment of the forums and PGI's historical hesitation to participate herein.

Then about 10 pages of ups and downs in this regard, some gifs, a couple asides regarding specific issues unrelated to the topic, a few cathartic complaints regarding PGI's utter refusal to engage or establish rapport with its community, and a general wind down of emotions and mutual loathing.

That's about it.

Edited by Bud Crue, 26 November 2016 - 06:43 AM.

[Bill Lumbar]

Ibrandul Mike, on 25 November 2016 - 08:14 PM, said:

You don't have to be a troll to bait... but I got you and that it wasn't meant as bait.
Please don't call me sir, that should be for people that have earned the respect. At least as far as I am concerned (and some people I respect and still wouldn't call them sir).

Perhaps we could discuss why you have that feeling per PM and search for a solution. The topic is derailed enough. Even our little talk here is derailing it further.
And yes I know that feeling very well...

I am enjoying the game and most of the time the community. One of the reasons I am still a volunteer moderator.
I still think around the time I started playing was the best time to get into the game. There is a lot of change (not every time to the better in my opinion, but hey change) and new stuff was added... so while I can understand the players that have played it since the alpha/beta and their frustration, I can't say that I feel the same way.

PGI needs to communicate a lot more and better is what I read in the forums quite often. And I agree.
The patch notes with explanations are a good start.
We should be well aware that answering every post or every thread won't happen. Not even the big names in the business are doing that... and PGI would need a lot of people to get something like that done. That is too much money that would be better invested in new maps (please for FP too!), new game modes (including something like PvE, Solaris...), a FP overhaul and so on.
Perhaps we would need people to filter the needs and wishes of the community? Some people that help the community manager and the devs to get constructive criticism without the salt, the threats (wallet closed if not... leaving if not... just to mention two) and so on. I am just doing volunteer work and the forums sometimes pull me down or make me aggressive and I know for sure that most players (that at least read the forums) get affected too. Now try to think how it has to be for the devs or the CM. Don't get me wrong. I am not saying that as an excuse for PGI not being open or forward enough or to say that things are ok or that we as a community are just whiners (that are all examples, not the words of PGI... just in case someone tries to read "he said PGI said that..." into it). PGI has to work on their communication, in my opinion. But we have to work on ours too.
We can't even agree on what is wrong with MW:O. Balance? Queue times? FP? Game modes? The match maker? Everything? Then we get stuck on old stuff like the PGI/IGP thing. That doesn't get us anywhere.
Make MW:O great again? Reading the forums MW:O was never great. I like MW:O, I have fun. For me it is a great game. Do we as a community have the right to ask questions? Of course. Should we give feedback? Hell yes! Do we have to act like we are idiots or selfish or [pick something negative] while doing that? Not really.
Would write more, but I doubt many will read that wall of text anyway... and I need to shoot some mechs

Ummmm yeah.... I just want to say I am tier 3 also, and I in fact did read your whole post, as I do most post that are not troll post or just jibberish.

[Mcgral18]

dervishx5, on 25 November 2016 - 04:24 PM, said:

What's amazing is that this thread is not really about IGPGI, if one bothers to read it.

Doesn't PGIGP roll off the tongue easier?

[Kaspirikay]

got it, thanks Bud

[cazidin]

Bud Crue, on 26 November 2016 - 06:42 AM, said:

Someone observed that the NGNG guys in one of the podcasts implied that PGI and IGP were the same entity at one point.

Community members (CM) mocked this, said "duh" or dismissed it.

For some reason three Devs including lord "I know best" himeself Russ Bullock felt obligated to join us in an unprecedented showing of PGI love to note that the whole four year old PGI/IGP relationship was long over and that they were always different entities and that to assert otherwise is a no good naughty lie. Russ indicated that the NGNG guys clearly misspoke but that in any case they were "simply words".

Community members (CM) mocked this, said "duh" or dismissed it; and then some of us, perhaps irrationally focused on Russ's "simply words" comment and took it as yet another slight to the community as well as an admission that PGI and Russ in particular lack any sense of honesty in how they deal with this product or its customers since after all anything they say or promise is "simply words".

Then moderators, the NGNG, and like 2 CMs attempted to defend PGI's track record, Russ's actual comment, and the overall environment of the forums and PGI's historical hesitation to participate herein.

Then about 10 pages of ups and downs in this regard, some gifs, a couple asides regarding specific issues unrelated to the topic, a few cathartic complaints regarding PGI's utter refusal to engage or establish rapport with its community, and a general wind down of emotions and mutual loathing.

That's about it.

You forgot the part where I heroically defeated three dragons, a hundred knights, and punched a tower in the face to save a family of Disney Princesses and then flew down into the sunset.

We don't talk about my adventures in the 2 direct to DVD sequels.

[Zolaz]

I love it when my waitress comes to my table and explains why she is giving bad service. It is even better when her friends and colleagues come by and do the same. It wont save her tip though.

Thanks for stopping by the table, Russ.

[Khalcruth]

Bud Crue, on 26 November 2016 - 05:07 AM, said:

I mean if that's what it takes to get them to actually pay attention to their customers in this unprecedented manner (that unprecedented aspect is just one more reason to be angry in my opinion) then I think that is what we all need to do.

It makes me sad that 3 or 4 posts ends up counting as an unprecedentedly large level of communication.

[Mcgral18]

Khalcruth, on 26 November 2016 - 10:18 AM, said:

It makes me sad that 3 or 4 posts ends up counting as an unprecedentedly large level of communication.

Yeah...I sure wish PGI would stop by one of my threads


I don't have the will to write up a new one, though.
It would also be ignored

[Y E O N N E]

Zolaz, on 26 November 2016 - 10:01 AM, said:

I love it when my waitress comes to my table and explains why she is giving bad service. It is even better when her friends and colleagues come by and do the same. It wont save her tip though.

Thanks for stopping by the table, Russ.

Depends on the reason for me. However, there is no possible excuse PGI can give that would gain any sympathy. They've been too consistent about it.

[DAYLEET]

Mcgral18, on 26 November 2016 - 10:19 AM, said:

Yeah...I sure wish PGI would stop by one of my threads

You just need to start your thread with something insane like "ive realised that mwo helped faked the moon landing and that became obvious when i found out that pgi employees are Werepgi, that is people who turn into each others and no one really is anyone except everyone at any time, part of a multi-singular symbiosis"