58 replies to this topic

[An Innocent Urbie]

I think it would be better to have more heat than jamming it. people will have more control than weapon jamming RNG.

[Deathlike]

Maybe... but what exactly would be the penalty (in terms of the heat multiplier)?

I'm not sure if it'll go over well and you'd also have to adjust the cooldown timer as well because you're just double tapping whenever you have the opportunity...

[RestosIII]

I still wish ACs had recoil. Even without CoF or a convergence system, it would help balance things out. I'd also enjoy the (probably) controversial option of giving Gauss rifles recoil as.well.

[Bombast]

Should go in the opposite direction.

Buff AC and LB-X RoF/DPS. Nerf Ultra RoF/DPS. Buff Ultra Damage per shot. By a lot. But impose MASSIVE jam chance/jam time penalties. Make Ultras what they should be - Zoom and Boom weapons.

Edited by Bombast, 27 November 2016 - 12:14 AM.

[naterist]

An Innocent Urbie, on 27 November 2016 - 12:06 AM, said:

I think it would be better to have more heat than jamming it. people will have more control than weapon jamming RNG.

what you are asking for is a rotary ac

[Shiroi Tsuki]

Are UACs really that bad?

I tried 3 UAC5s (in like 1.5 years) in my Jager S and DDs earlier this morning, and surprisingly, I did more damage than I normally would on my main (Centurion brawlers) They're not THAT bad imho, in fact, I think they're pretty good. Idk what's the fuss to be honest. I saw all 3 jamming at once and it was a little painful, but I suppose that's where my backup 2 Medium lasers comes into play.

[QuantumButler]

Why not give them a bar like the flamer and they jam if you max it out, like how RACs work in MW4?

That way the player has total control over jamming and no more RNG BS.

Edited by QuantumButler, 27 November 2016 - 12:31 AM.

[RestosIII]

Shiroi Tsuki, on 27 November 2016 - 12:23 AM, said:

Are UACs really that bad?

I tried 3 UAC5s (in like 1.5 years) in my Jager S and DDs earlier this morning, and surprisingly, I did more damage than I normally would on my main (Centurion brawlers) They're not THAT bad imho, in fact, I think they're pretty good. Idk what's the fuss to be honest. I saw all 3 jamming at once and it was a little painful, but I suppose that's where my backup 2 Medium lasers comes into play.

The recent jam time changes hit larger CUACs hard on anything that doesn't boat them. Running a few MLas+1 AC/10 or AC/20? Better hope you don't jam, or you're suddenly worthless for a good 10 seconds. Had to sell my Stormcrow B after this update, since the I relied on that AC/20 due to heat problems, and the jams hit it hard.

[QuantumButler]

RestosIII, on 27 November 2016 - 12:31 AM, said:

The recent jam time changes hit larger CUACs hard on anything that doesn't boat them. Running a few MLas+1 AC/10 or AC/20? Better hope you don't jam, or you're suddenly worthless for a good 10 seconds. Had to sell my Stormcrow B after this update, since the I relied on that AC/20 due to heat problems, and the jams hit it hard.

Swap to LBAXes my man, they're fun as heck.

[Xetelian]

Jam duration is ridiculous. I don't mind if they have a chance to jam, I don't mind if all my guns end up jamming due to RNG. I do however want those damn jams to resolve faster.

[Bombast]

QuantumButler, on 27 November 2016 - 12:40 AM, said:

Swap to LBAXes my man, they're fun as heck.

LB-Xs are more fun then people give them credit for. The Huntsman B with two LB-10Xs is more fun then anything else I'm running right now.

Wish I could get an LB-20X on to that Huntsman A... like you can on the Stormcrow. As it is, I'm running an Ultra 20 and a Large Pulse, and it's rancid garbage.

Stupid Omnimechs.

Edited by Bombast, 27 November 2016 - 12:46 AM.

[RestosIII]

QuantumButler, on 27 November 2016 - 12:40 AM, said:

Swap to LBAXes my man, they're fun as heck.

I need to make a gif for this already...

Lore builds. Basically all I run are lore builds. And most lore builds with LBX ACs either have no lower arm actuators, not enough tonnage, or use smaller LBX sizes, making them relative deadweight. Only LBX build I've really made work is the Summoner Prime.

[Requiemking]

QuantumButler, on 27 November 2016 - 12:40 AM, said:

Swap to LBAXes my man, they're fun as heck.

I agree. LBXs have good suppression value, one of the best 2 class AC variants in the game(basically, the LB2X AC is what happens if you give an IS AC2 LBX crit potential. Its basically a slug gun.), incredibly potency in brawling when paired with SRMs, and best of all, no ghost heat.

[Duke Nedo]

Not with heat, it'd have to be replaced by it's own mechanism... otherwise you just make them into bad lasers.

[LordNothing]

i generally want to see the death of the double tap and the button mashing that comes with it. according to russ, you are supposed to get a temporary surge in dps, but what you really get is an unreliable gun that makes the french chauchat look like a golden ak.

i kind of want to give the guns longer bursts, up to 10 rounds. max damage is somewhere in the neighborhood if 1.5-1.75x the gun rating. each round that fires has a small chance to jam, however the jam time is proportional to the number of rounds that actually fire. something like cd*(roundsFired/maxRounds)*2. this means if you jam on the last round you get a 2x cd jam time. if however you jam after firing only half the rounds, you only have to wait 1cd of jam time. if you jam very early in the burst your jam time is much less than the cooldown. the jam chances also ramp linearly with each round fired. 1% for the first round and 10% for the last. the final feature is you can fire partial bursts, so if you want to keep your jam rates low you can interrupt the burst at any point by releasing the trigger. fire only 1/2 the rounds. and never have a jam chance over 5% or a jam time over 1cd.

[Bombast]

LordNothing, on 27 November 2016 - 01:08 AM, said:

i generally want to see the death of the double tap and the button mashing that comes with it. according to russ, you are supposed to get a temporary surge in dps, but what you really get is an unreliable gun that makes the french chauchat look like a golden ak.

i kind of want to give the guns longer bursts, up to 10 rounds. max damage is somewhere in the neighborhood if 1.5-1.75x the gun rating. each round that fires has a small chance to jam, however the jam time is proportional to the number of rounds that actually fire. something like cd*(roundsFired/maxRounds)*2. this means if you jam on the last round you get a 2x cd jam time. if however you jam after firing only half the rounds, you only have to wait 1cd of jam time. if you jam very early in the burst your jam time is much less than the cooldown. the jam chances also ramp linearly with each round fired. 1% for the first round and 10% for the last. the final feature is you can fire partial bursts, so if you want to keep your jam rates low you can interrupt the burst at any point by releasing the trigger. fire only 1/2 the rounds. and never have a jam chance over 5% or a jam time over 1cd.

That would be a RAC.

Sarna.net said:

The weapon may be used to fire up to six times in a turn, with each additional shot giving the potential for increased damage. At the same time, each extra shot increases the amount of heat the autocannon builds and increases the chance for a jam.

Edited by Bombast, 27 November 2016 - 01:12 AM.

[LordNothing]

Bombast, on 27 November 2016 - 01:12 AM, said:

That would be a RAC.

nah, a rac fires and keeps firing until it starts to melt. autocannon fire in bursts, ultras should simply fire longer bursts.

i dont think the current uac mechanic matches the sarna definition at all. my way is much closer to it. you got a ramping jam chance, each shot has heat so that ramps up too, the onlything different is the shot count, 6 might work instead of 10, but thats just a matter of implementation. i also dont think battletech specified button mashing.

Edited by LordNothing, 27 November 2016 - 01:40 AM.

[Bombast]

LordNothing, on 27 November 2016 - 01:30 AM, said:

nah, a rac fires and keeps firing until it starts to melt. autocannon fire in bursts, ultras should simply fire longer bursts.

i dont think the current uac mechanic matches the sarna definition at all. my way is much closer to it.

RACs fire as long as you want them to, up to 6 bursts. Ever upgrade in 'burst' increases it's heat and chance to jam.

You literally described a RAC.

EDIT: And you're way isn't close. To get close to Battletech, UACs would need to kick like a mule, spray rounds all over God's creation, and have a jam chance that would make half the player base riot.

UACs cannot function like they do in Battletech. Because to do so would make them essentially useless.

Edited by Bombast, 27 November 2016 - 01:41 AM.

[LordNothing]

Bombast, on 27 November 2016 - 01:37 AM, said:

RACs fire as long as you want them to, up to 6 bursts. Ever upgrade in 'burst' increases it's heat and chance to jam.

You literally described a RAC.

EDIT: And you're way isn't close. To get close to Battletech, UACs would need to kick like a mule, spray rounds all over God's creation, and have a jam chance that would make half the player base riot.

UACs cannot function like they do in Battletech. Because to do so would make them essentially useless.

im all for those kind of sim features. but i think the firing mechanics can be much better than double tap. half this player base is in their 30s or 40s, arthritis is a thing.

im also of the opinion that we need to stop thumping battletech manuals so much. theres a game for you comming soon. you really should be thumping mechwarrior 3 and living legends. those games had great mechanics.

Edited by LordNothing, 27 November 2016 - 01:51 AM.

[Bombast]

LordNothing, on 27 November 2016 - 01:47 AM, said:

im all for those kind of sim features. but i think the firing mechanics can be much better than double tap. half this player base is in their 30s or 40s, arthritis is a thing.

'I'm old and my fingers hurt' is not a valid balancing argument.

Quote

im also of the opinion that we need to stop thumping battletech manuals so much. theres a game for you comming soon. you really should be thumping mechwarrior 3 and living legends. those games had great mechanics.

You do realize I just said you can't put Battletech Ultras in this game, right?

I advocate for higher burst, lower DPS Ultra's for a reason - They preserve the 'spirit' of Ultras without rendering them completely obsolete like actual Battletech rules would.