83 replies to this topic

[cazidin]

Greetings Mechwarriors. Today I have a simple question. If PGI had a good PR guy, somebody to talk to who would make certain that your constructive feedback was passed on and actually listened to, and who also explained why PGI did X or Y in a better way than "Oh, we knew about it. Sorry to subject you to our mistake for a week." would this game be better overall and would these forums look generally happier with the game?

This question was raised in another thread of mine, but I decided that it deserves its own. I received a few likes for this but I want a more serious and in-depth conversation about this.

[Lostdragon]

There would probably be slightly less vitriol, but it would not address the core issues (FW sucks, balance is hard, development is slow or nonexistant).

[Davegt27]

no it would not change a thing you would still have the same people crying about this or that


one thing PGI could do is scheduled updates say balance pass at 30 day intervals for example

[Big Tin Man]

If they had this person 3.5 years ago, yes. That ship sailed long, long ago. Development at this point is so slow feedback isn't really meaningful as the game has matured to the point where changes are minor and slow to come, because you just can't wildly swing a live game's balance around.

IMHO, Russ better have a couple dozen aces up his sleeve at mechcon coupled with a massive December patch filled with good non-mech content, or 2016 will be a year of non-content for MWO. They started holding all of the development cards really close to their chest for the last 6 months regarding development 4+ months away. They need a home run to draw people in (back), and they need to deliver it soon.

[1453 R]

Lack of communication compounds the core issues a lot of players have with the game. A good PR guy would be a very big boon and they need one, but after a certain point it's difficult for the company to continue to justify the glacial pace of development on anything but 'Mech packs.

We all understand that 'Mech packs keep the lights on and the servers running and all that. A PR guy who can explain that isn't really needed. A PR guy who could explain the reasoning behind balance decisions, a'la the Jeff Kaplan Effect over on Overwatch, would be much better, but one thing to keep in mind is that if the reasoning behind balance decisions makes no bloody sense it doesn't help. Disagreeing with the reasoning behind a dev change is one thing - I see plenty of disagreement on the recent Symmetra rework, for example, but it's clear what the reasoning behind the change is and everyone can see what Blizzard was trying to do. They may not agree that it's the best way to go, but they can agree that the reasoning is solid.

That's what we need from Piranha. We need a reason, that makes sense, why they haven't been developing the game for schitt for the last year or so (or, depending on how bitter your vetness is, for the last 4+ years). We need to know why we should keep pouring money into 'Mech packs absolutely nobody needs anymore when it seems like there's no rhyme or reason for any of the changes made or any of the systems that have or don't have priority. A PR guy can only really do so much if he doesn't have anything worthwhile to PR over.

[CK16]

You would be surprised how much PGI does listen...when you catch the right person, and show a little respect. Not saying you don't, but we know a few here who's idea of communication is stomping feet and screaming for thier way (also needing attention) and that turns them off to hearing us for awhile. I have had decent results in passing along ideas, bugs, issues, ect honestly.

[martian]

cazidin, on 28 November 2016 - 11:14 AM, said:

Greetings Mechwarriors. Today I have a simple question. If PGI had a good PR guy, somebody to talk to who would make certain that your constructive feedback was passed on and actually listened to, and who also explained why PGI did X or Y in a better way than "Oh, we knew about it. Sorry to subject you to our mistake for a week." would this game be better overall and would these forums look generally happier with the game?

Don't confuse good PR with a good game.

You can have a friendly PR guy who posts ten times a day on the forum - but MWO with some stupid feature(s) would still suck.

And by the way, we had exactly what you described, in the past: Garth Erlam was your friendly PR guy who communicated with fans (well, mostly about his Cicada) etc. - but MWO was still a pale shade of what we have been promised and the game bled a significant amount of player base.
And then the moment came when no amount of friendliness could hide that sad fact ... and Garth was fired.

[SmithMPBT]

Just to clear something up, Russ calls mechs "content". Russ calls game components like FW, lobbies and gamemodes "features". So you will frequently hear him saying "We have new fresh content coming out every month", by which he means mech packs.

This was explained on an NGNG podcast, thought it might help the discussion.

[cazidin]

martian, on 28 November 2016 - 11:26 AM, said:

Don't confuse good PR with a good game.

You can have a friendly PR guy who posts ten times a day on the forum - but MWO with some stupid feature(s) would still suck.

And by the way, we had exactly what you described, in the past: Garth Erlam was your friendly PR guy who communicated with fans (well, mostly about his Cicada) etc. - but MWO was still a pale shade of what we have been promised and the game bled a significant amount of player base.
And then the moment came when no amount of friendliness could hide that sad fact ... and Garth was fired.

I see what you and everyone else means, but I think something may've gotten lost in translation. I don't just mean one good PR guy who can excuse a lot of PGI's problems, but one who is simultaneously active in the community and works hard to convince Russ, to convince Paul, to convince whomever to work on X project that would seriously improve the game. Maybe Public Relations-Liaison would be a more fitting title?

[Alistair Winter]

As others have said, it simply doesn't matter that much anymore. We figured out what to expect from PGI, and I we learned it the hard way. Right now, I think people are going to look at PGI's plans and promises with the proper amount of salt. Some of the most decorated bittervets will say they knew about PGI's ways way back in 2012, due to their track record with other games, but there you go.

The PR guy would be able to give people faith in the company, ideally. Right now, the only thing that can silence the critics, aka Team Wanna Buy A Mechpack, would be some real content. No amount of PR talk and interacting with the players would make a difference, at this point, if they don't deliver some content.

[martian]

cazidin, on 28 November 2016 - 11:31 AM, said:

I see what you and everyone else means, but I think something may've gotten lost in translation. I don't just mean one good PR guy who can excuse a lot of PGI's problems, but one who is simultaneously active in the community and works hard to convince Russ, to convince Paul, to convince whomever to work on X project that would seriously improve the game. Maybe Public Relations-Liaison would be a more fitting title?

You are an optimist. I am a realist.

PR guy would be a Russ' subordinate. It would be extremely difficult to for somebody, who can be fired at any moment, to convince his boss, especially if such boss already knows "What's right for the game." better than the players themselves.

And any attempts to convince other PGI employees would be a wasted effort, since those employess take orders and work on tasks assigned by Russ, the company boss, not by that PR guy.

[PurplePuke]

Nobody from PGI is ever going to poke their head up in these forums.

The childish disrespect and abuse they would be subjected to would boggle the mind.

[Bud Crue]

No. As long as the president of the company takes time to show public disdain to his company's customers, a PR guy following along in his wake to say:
"no, no what he really meant was...", or
"no, no, that broken feature wasn't intentionally put into the game", or
"no no when he said there would be a series of round tables and a summary of each discussion, by series he meant one, and by summary he meant dismissal"
etc.
is not really going to help much, ya know?

Edited by Bud Crue, 28 November 2016 - 11:51 AM.

[Roughneck Cobra]

Act like it, get treated like it. Customers get treated like cash cow 6 year olds - Go Figure.

[cazidin]

Alistair Winter, on 28 November 2016 - 11:35 AM, said:

As others have said, it simply doesn't matter that much anymore. We figured out what to expect from PGI, and I we learned it the hard way. Right now, I think people are going to look at PGI's plans and promises with the proper amount of salt. Some of the most decorated bittervets will say they knew about PGI's ways way back in 2012, due to their track record with other games, but there you go.

The PR guy would be able to give people faith in the company, ideally. Right now, the only thing that can silence the critics, aka Team Wanna Buy A Mechpack, would be some real content. No amount of PR talk and interacting with the players would make a difference, at this point, if they don't deliver some content.

True. A good PR guy can only go so far, but a little faith in the company and the future of this game is better than none which exists right now. Really, though, I think anything better than Russ' Twitter would be better.

martian, on 28 November 2016 - 11:39 AM, said:

You are an optimist. I am a realist.

PR guy would be a Russ' subordinate. It would be extremely difficult to for somebody, who can be fired at any moment, to convince his boss, especially if such boss already knows "What's right for the game." better than the players themselves.

And any attempts to convince other PGI employees would be a wasted effort, since those employess take orders and work on tasks assigned by Russ, the company boss, not by that PR guy.

While the PR guy couldn't go around ordering the engineers or artists to do something, it perhaps would be amusing to see him try, he'd likely be persuasive and able to convince Russ of at least a few good changes, right? I don't believe that Russ is a stubborn "my way or the highway with cement shoes!" kind of guy. I just think he's terrible at communication. Most of the problems we have with this game seem to be the result of terrible communication, either to somebody at PGI's HQ or on Twitter, leading to a vocal backlash on the forums.

Bud Crue, on 28 November 2016 - 11:48 AM, said:

No. As long as the president of the company takes time to show public disdain to his company's customers, a PR guy following along in his wake to say:
"no, no what he really meant was...", or
"no, no, that broken feature wasn't intentionally put into the game", or
"no no when he said there would be a series of round tables and a summary of each discussion, by series he meant one, and by summary he meant dismissal"
etc.
is not really going to help much, ya know?

I know what you mean. In my mind, the PR guy would speak first to prevent miscommunication from re-occurring.

Now for another question. Is the PR position still available, or was it completely abolished after Garth's firing?

[0bsidion]

SmithMPBT, on 28 November 2016 - 11:27 AM, said:

Just to clear something up, Russ calls mechs "content". Russ calls game components like FW, lobbies and gamemodes "features". So you will frequently hear him saying "We have new fresh content coming out every month", by which he means mech packs.

This was explained on an NGNG podcast, thought it might help the discussion.

Well, technically new mechs are content, it's just content a lot of us have become thoroughly desensitized to because it's the only thing we see on a regular basis and because they don't really add any actual substance to the game at this point.

There was a point where new mechs brought something new to the table but we've long since sailed past that port, at least until PGI is willing to introduce new tech. Not that I'm advocating that in lieu of adding features that would bring some substance to the game.

[Summon3r]

cazidin, on 28 November 2016 - 11:14 AM, said:

Greetings Mechwarriors. Today I have a simple question. If PGI had a good PR guy, somebody to talk to who would make certain that your constructive feedback was passed on and actually listened to, and who also explained why PGI did X or Y in a better way than "Oh, we knew about it. Sorry to subject you to our mistake for a week." would this game be better overall and would these forums look generally happier with the game?

This question was raised in another thread of mine, but I decided that it deserves its own. I received a few likes for this but I want a more serious and in-depth conversation about this.

lol isnt that what Russ's twitter is for? except instead of being heard ideas and suggestions are thrown out the door?

[begin sarcasm] i cant see any logical reason why PGI's own MWO forums would be the vehicle for customers to get in touch with PGI or a PR guy [end sarcasm]

[martian]

cazidin, on 28 November 2016 - 11:53 AM, said:

While the PR guy couldn't go around ordering the engineers or artists to do something, it perhaps would be amusing to see him try, he'd likely be persuasive and able to convince Russ of at least a few good changes, right? I don't believe that Russ is a stubborn "my way or the highway with cement shoes!" kind of guy. I just think he's terrible at communication. Most of the problems we have with this game seem to be the result of terrible communication, either to somebody at PGI's HQ or on Twitter, leading to a vocal backlash on the forums.

If something, it seems to me that he is terrible in keeping promises. No amount of PR massage can change the fact that you promised one thing and then either forgot about doing that or did something opposite.

cazidin, on 28 November 2016 - 11:53 AM, said:

I know what you mean. In my mind, the PR guy would speak first to prevent miscommunication from re-occurring.

The PR guy would be here to convey what Russ would want him to convey.

And of course, he would serve as an useful scapegoat. Russ could always fire him and then say that his words were "misinterpreted" or something. I remember his famous and honest "non-apology".

cazidin, on 28 November 2016 - 11:53 AM, said:

Now for another question. Is the PR position still available, or was it completely abolished after Garth's firing?

Sadly it is not (now). Currently Tina Benoit sits in that chair. As a common MWO player, the only moments when I have noticed that she exists were when she locked a few threads in the "General Discussion" section.

[chucklesMuch]

I believe that more communication would help a lot. Whether from CM or PR role(s) or whether the some of the existing staff had a little time allocated to communication. Whenever I see PGI staff actually reply to posts on the forums I see a lot of likes and personally believe it increases good will towards PGI (even if only a little and fleeting, I think this would increase if it was more often). The thread where a dev? I think. Answered a bunch of questions about HSR was really positive. Tina commenting on one of the fairly recent events threads was also positive from my perspective.

I’m highly unlikely to agree with everything that PGI does, personally more communication would make things I disagree with more palatable. Also some of Russ comments would have benefited from having a PR type person filter/critique/polish them… to avoid them getting used as salt inducing sound bites.

[TLBFestus]

They would actually need TWO new PR guys.

The first one would "fall on his sword" for the team and absorb all the latent vitriol from the community while trying to build bridges.

Eventually he'd be too burnt to carry on and then they bring in the 2nd coming of PR guy who would have a better chance of success since 1st PR guy took all the cr@p and got the process started. Unless of course 2nd PR guy had Niko as a first name.

Edited by TLBFestus, 28 November 2016 - 12:35 PM.