196 replies to this topic

[FupDup]

TercieI, on 04 December 2016 - 07:38 PM, said:

OK, so I just looked at the video and they actually say there's a limited amount of SP per mech (and it appears the example has 75 as its limit). Wouldn't that just be 75,000 XP? That seems like no problem, only a slight increase over the current 57,750. Can cover the gap off my couple million XP mechs...

Each SP costs 10,000 XP (and 50,000 C-Bills?), IIRC. There's also the mentioning of each skill costing like 50k XP more than the previous one.

Each thread gives different values to some extent. However, all of them point towards a much slower leveling up process even if we use the lowest and most optimistic values shown to us (constant 10k XP per skill and no C-Bills).

If the XP per skill is not constant, and if C-Bills are needed (which several screenshots suggest), then it goes downhill pretty fast. And by downhill I mean a vertical line.

The total XP to fully master a mech would be muuuuch higher than 75k unless PGI took my suggestion to make each SP cost 1k.

Edited by FupDup, 04 December 2016 - 08:16 PM.

[Carl Vickers]

FupDup, on 04 December 2016 - 08:01 PM, said:

Each SP costs 10,000 XP and 50,000 C-Bills, IIRC.

The total XP to fully master a mech would be muuuuch higher than 75k unless PGI took my suggestion to make each SP cost 1k.

What, so it is now going to cost XP and space bucks to level a mech?

Grind extreme, wont be participating in that at all.

Edited by Carl Vickers, 04 December 2016 - 08:07 PM.

[DaZur]

Point to consider...

The discussion regarding the point value and the presumed man-hours to amass (75,000 XP?) I think some are missing the obvious is this is for a single mech... not three as previously required.

Considering it normally required 58,000 per mech, old iteration was closer to 174,000 to master and REQUIRED the purchase of three mechs.

[AnTi90d]

It's 10,000 XP per Skill Point in the pictures.

At 75 Skill Points in the example, the total XP needed would be 750,000 IF the skills don't cost more as you progress.

750,000 would take an average player playing 2 hours every day ~150 days to master each mech.. 75 days if that player plays 4 hours every day, without taking a day off.

[Johnny Z]

DaZur, on 04 December 2016 - 08:20 PM, said:

Point to consider...

The discussion regarding the point value and the presumed man-hours to amass (75,000 XP?) I think some are missing the obvious is this is for a single mech... not three as previously required.

Considering it normally required 58,000 per mech, old iteration was closer to 174,000 to master and REQUIRED the purchase of three mechs.

Modules are getting changed also I guess. Stay tuned for a total economy redo.

Should be epic drama over that LOL.

Edited by Johnny Z, 04 December 2016 - 08:41 PM.

[AnTi90d]

There will be no modules. All existing modules will be destroyed and their Cbill costs will be refunded to you.

So, everyone will have millions of Cbills that have little to no purpose.. and everyone will need millions of XP.

RIP: S, L, F and Hero mechs. Champion mechs are the new most-desired mech to play.

[Johnny Z]

AnTi90d, on 04 December 2016 - 08:46 PM, said:

There will be no modules. All existing modules will be destroyed and their Cbill costs will be refunded to you.

So, everyone will have millions of Cbills that have little to no purpose.. and everyone will need millions of XP.

RIP: S, L, F and Hero mechs. Champion mechs are the new most-desired mech to play.

Ok from whats known. But there has to be something added to balance cred costs.

[El Bandito]

AnTi90d, on 04 December 2016 - 08:46 PM, said:

There will be no modules. All existing modules will be destroyed and their Cbill costs will be refunded to you.

So, everyone will have millions of Cbills that have little to no purpose.. and everyone will need millions of XP.

RIP: S, L, F and Hero mechs. Champion mechs are the new most-desired mech to play.

I do believe the skill tree system will cost C-Bills in addition to XP.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Johnny Z, on 04 December 2016 - 08:40 PM, said:

Modules are getting changed also I guess. Stay tuned for a total economy redo.

Should be epic drama over that LOL.

DRAMA, is always here, no matter what.

[TercieI]

FupDup, on 04 December 2016 - 08:01 PM, said:

Each SP costs 10,000 XP (and 50,000 C-Bills?), IIRC. There's also the mentioning of each skill costing like 50k XP more than the previous one.

Each thread gives different values to some extent. However, all of them point towards a much slower leveling up process even if we use the lowest and most optimistic values shown to us (constant 10k XP per skill and no C-Bills).

If the XP per skill is not constant, and if C-Bills are needed (which several screenshots suggest), then it goes downhill pretty fast. And by downhill I mean a vertical line.

The total XP to fully master a mech would be muuuuch higher than 75k unless PGI took my suggestion to make each SP cost 1k.

Yeah, that'd be bad. I really don't want to have to re-level my large stable of mechs. Fair to say I almost certainly won't.

[process]

I'm always looking forward to new content and changes, especially considering the tentative state this game has always existed in, but I admit I will be pretty salty if PGI removes the acknowledgement of all the chassis I've mastered over the last several years. I get this is partially entitlement speaking, but I can't help but think taking things away from players on this scale is incredibly consumer unfriendly.

Perhaps a system of diminishing returns could be used instead, where a mech could be upgraded indefinitely, but requiring exponentially more XP. This creates a system where there is a "natural" mastery level roughly equivalent to the amount of XP required now, but with the potential to keep going.

Edited by process, 04 December 2016 - 09:00 PM.

[TLBFestus]

Prosperity Park, on 04 December 2016 - 06:40 PM, said:

Hey, at least we'll get machine gun improvements before the skill tree gets revamped again. That's a guaranteed fact.



I am one of those closed beta founding whales. Why am I not salty about leveling my Mechs again...? This is my message to you salty whales: if you consider your mechs to have been "Mastered" already that means you accepted the previous skill tree as a final product.
Chew on that.

I don't understand this logic. You are saying that because people have mastered their mechs it means that they accepted the previous skill tree as final product.

It's more likely that they have simply been playing the game for a long time and they may as well use all that accrued XP to do something rather than let it sit there. It has nothing to do with the quality of the existing skill tree.

[Y E O N N E]

Did I miss something? The skill tree is still being tweaked, it's not set in stone. Russ said himself that that is what the next month is for.

[JC Daxion]

MY hopes is that the XP is shared, or at least between classes.. Sorta like if you unlock one module it can be used on all mechs.. I am hoping that it is similar.. Unlock a +cool down or something, It can be upgraded on all mechs with the single unlock..


Perhaps having more of one variant will change the cost structure as well..

So in other words, having tons of mechs would speed along, and make it cheaper to upgrade many mechs, than it would be to just slug along in one mech unlocking everything..


that said.. Even my most played mechs don't even have 500k XP (after skill tree unlocks) and i've been playing almost since launch....)

[DaZur]

Yeonne Greene, on 04 December 2016 - 09:12 PM, said:

Did I miss something? The skill tree is still being tweaked, it's not set in stone. Russ said himself that that is what the next month is for.

Don't ya know it's fashionable to run around with our hair on fire making wild speculation over things we have near-zero information on that we derived from some fancy graphics?

You know... MWO forum usual hysterics and hyperbole.

[BLOOD WOLF]

DaZur, on 04 December 2016 - 09:29 PM, said:

Don't ya know it's fashionable to run around with our hair on fire making wild speculation over things we have near-zero information on that we derived from some fancy graphics?

You know... MWO forum usual hysterics and hyperbole.

It's not the MWO forums without assertions with conclusive statements with 0 evidence, thats what these forums are known for

[chucklesMuch]

The idea is really cool. And I’m going to wait till the official stats come out before I start lighting torches… figure its okay to sharpen really long forks whilst I wait though.

750K of XP per ‘mastered’ mech… without a revamped (read greatly increased XP reward system) seems much too high. And the end of new mechs for me for the foreseeable future. On a plus side I would get to re-pilot some mechs I used to like but stopped using as they were mastered already.



but hey… do you want to by a mech pack?… the ultimate set will grant you an opportunity to grind out a mere 5,250,000 worth of XP (so long as you don’t change you mind over anything along the way). Think about all that fun you will be having… and as an added bonus you might even be worth a KKMD to somebody as you start to grind… just don't check the total amount of XP you have ground out the in the entire time you have played MWO to date as a comparison... (tone amused not salty)

[Jun Watarase]

Anyone else remember when clan mechs went live without being changed? Even though everyone on the PTS kept pointing out how this was a terrible idea?

Or all the other times when PGI said something wasnt final, but it went live with no changes anyway?

[The Unstoppable Puggernaut]

Not sure about everyone else but what if they refunded the XP built up per chassis?
I buy most chassis based on only one or two mechs (and I have a lotta XP against one of those mechs). Based on the old system, just off one mech I could level them all up most of the time.

I think we only got a slight snippet so we should hold our picks and forks for now. I believe they get the message that this is a touchy subject and no one wants to do a long hard grind again.

[Duke Nedo]

Prosperity Park, on 04 December 2016 - 06:29 PM, said:

Yup, PGI is releasing the new skill tree in its final form that will never be changed and the amount of points required to unlock the new nodes will always remain exactly how they are now. It will never change. It is final.


Oh, wait...


Maybe it can be changed? Maybe we should calm down and not scream and shout like kindergarteners about millions of XP. Maybe we should provide feedback after we actually begin using the system.

And this is a very radical concept: maybe a single MechWarrior pilot is not meant to be the absolute master of over 300 different kinds of vehicles...

And another thing that I feel must be pointed out: if you consider your bounty of Mechs to have been "Mastered" already, then you're basically endorsing the old skill tree.

My take on this:

• PGI making 85% of my mechs that I bought and mastered unplayable is pretty damn harsh (unplayable because they will lose both skill unlocks and quirks)
  
• As far as I can see people have reasonable concerns
  
• Extending the end-game is a good idea
  
• Replacing quirks with individual skill trees for all mech variants is a good idea

Conclusion: If the refunded XP/cbills is enough to cover getting ALL my mastered mechs up to a 90% performance level (i.e. as being elited and quirked), then I don't minding grinding out the last 10% of my favourites to extend the end-game for these. IMHO 10% performance drop is max that would be acceptable. End-game grind should not give much performance, else we end up with another thing that punishes newer players. Make the last long end-game grinds for fluff, not for top performance!