15 replies to this topic

[El Bandito]

Considering the fact that it will take far more XP (and C-Bills!) to grind for mech skill trees soon, everyone who has banked hundreds and thousands of hours of premium time can finally start using them for convenience.

Yay....

[Imperius]

El Bandito, on 05 December 2016 - 01:14 AM, said:

Considering the fact that it will take far more XP (and C-Bills!) to grind for mech skill trees soon, everyone who has banked hundreds and thousands of hours of premium time can finally start using them for convenience.

Yay....

I did say the new skill tree was going to be grind 2.0

[Blue Boutique]

Would you actually spend 3.5 million experience points on a mech? Though the idea was to specialize the mech so for example a shadowhawk puts more into its left torso guns and speed rather than its energy/missile hardpoints.

Edited by Blue Boutique, 05 December 2016 - 01:48 AM.

[El Bandito]

Blue Boutique, on 05 December 2016 - 01:47 AM, said:

Would you actually spend 3.5 million experience points on a mech? Though the idea was to specialize the mech so for example a shadowhawk puts more into its left torso guns and speed rather than its energy/missile hardpoints.

I'm pretty sure what ends up happening if the XP requirement is too steep, is that many players would try to maximize only their few best mechs as much as possible for e-peen purposes, and mech pack sale will plummet as a result.

Edited by El Bandito, 05 December 2016 - 01:50 AM.

[kesmai]

I've got so much exp gxp (considering i've played 20000+ matches) that i couldn't care less about the change.
As a fact i welcome it.
My only gripe is they did not split weightclass and mech specific trees. But i can live with it.

[El Bandito]

kesmai, on 05 December 2016 - 01:54 AM, said:

I've got so much exp gxp (considering i've played 20000+ matches) that i couldn't care less about the change.
As a fact i welcome it.
My only gripe is they did not split weightclass and mech specific trees. But i can live with it.

I'm sure such an increased grind is wonderful for the new player experience.

[kesmai]

El Bandito, on 05 December 2016 - 02:01 AM, said:

I'm sure such an increased grind is wonderful for the new player experience.

It is easy to forget about the grind we had when pgi introduced the module stuff...
Hard to believe that a new player, starting in tier 5, will have a real problem with this stuff.
If he sucks, no skill tree or modules will make him better, if he is good those buffs won't give him a real edge.

[NoiseCrypt]

Blue Boutique, on 05 December 2016 - 01:47 AM, said:

Would you actually spend 3.5 million experience points on a mech? Though the idea was to specialize the mech so for example a shadowhawk puts more into its left torso guns and speed rather than its energy/missile hardpoints.

Where are people getting this 3.5 million xp from ?
The demo showed 75sp pr mech at a cost of 10'000xp each.
That is 750'000xp. Which is still way to much.

[El Bandito]

kesmai, on 05 December 2016 - 02:08 AM, said:

It is easy to forget about the grind we had when pgi introduced the module stuff...
Hard to believe that a new player, starting in tier 5, will have a real problem with this stuff.
If he sucks, no skill tree or modules will make him better, if he is good those buffs won't give him a real edge.

The modules offered far less bonuses than that of the new skill trees, BTW, specifically on weapons.

Edited by El Bandito, 05 December 2016 - 02:28 AM.

[Kmieciu]

If this system replaces quirks then the grind to unlock a new under-performing chassis will be unbearable...

[El Bandito]

Kmieciu, on 05 December 2016 - 02:32 AM, said:

If this system replaces quirks then the grind to unlock a new under-performing chassis will be unbearable...

The worst part is that PGI is still not offering any detailed info regarding it, even though the skill tree rework is reportedly "done".

[Ano]

As far as the skill trees being supergrind, I've got to assume that there'll be a hard cap on how many skills you can unlock for a given mech (I didn't watch the stream so not sure if this was detailed) otherwise there are a couple of immediate problems, i.e. that it will be extremely beneficial to concentrate your mech XP in one or two chassis (which is bad for PGI [mechpack sales] and bad for players [repetitive]). The other immediate problem is that if you are a long-time player and you dump 33% of your refunded XP into (say) a Timber Wolf, then your TW is going to be *considerably* more capable than that of a new player, and for a good deal of time. My guess is they'll cap the skill unlocks at the number needed to reach the bottom of a single tree.

Assuming that some equivalent to modules like radar derp and seismic exist within the skill tree, the other problem with this approach is it removes the ability to share "modules" between mechs. Particularly when you're a relatively new player, it's hugely beneficial to move your modules between mechs as you play them.

To be clear (edit): I think there's some promise in the approach they've chosen. The devil will be, as ever, in the details.

Edited by Ano, 05 December 2016 - 02:43 AM.

[Tristan Winter]

A lot of people are going to be happy that their old Catapult, Hunchback or Atlas with 5 million banked XP is now going to feel more special than the standard mech with only 50,000 XP.

A lot of completionists are going to be angry that all their 'mastered' mechs are no longer fully mastered and they will need to play MWO for 9000 years in order to truly master all their mechs.

A lot of comp players are going to be angry that you have to play each chassis for years and years to unlock all the skills that are needed to compete. Plebs with only +5% energy range on their Timber Wolf will be powerless against the +15% energy range Master race.

Or maybe not. It's fun to throw out bold predictions tho.

[Lightfoot]

El Bandito, on 05 December 2016 - 01:49 AM, said:

I'm pretty sure what ends up happening if the XP requirement is too steep, is that many players would try to maximize only their few best mechs as much as possible for e-peen purposes, and mech pack sale will plummet as a result.

QFT

I expect the early levels of proficiency will be easy to attain and the ultimate levels fairly hard, but also worth it. That would leave mech interest about where it is. You have your favorite mechs you play a lot, but you are looking for some that might do something a bit better.

[Paigan]

A very simple and good for every player level system would be one that is open ended but progresses logarithmically.

Simplified said for MWO (with numbers being only an example, hold your flames, please):
The first 10,000 XP spent on a certain value give you +1.0 % (just an example)
The next 10,000 XP spent on a certain value give you another +0.9 % (just an example)
The next 10,000 XP spent on a certain value give you another +0.8 % (just an example)
etc.

Meaning:
- one would get rather quickly to like +5% (just an example).
- one would require some time to get to like +7% (just an example).
- one would require a really long time to get to like +10% (just an example).

The interesting thing is that newcomers could get competitive rather quickly, but still there will never be a "maxed out" ceiling at which point all your efforts will be useless and gathered XP will be irrelevant. Every game would make you a tiny bit better.

There could even be a tiny (!) skill drop over time, so that you have to play an occasinal match to "stay in shape".

But I guess understanding logarithmical formulas is too much to expect from gamemechanic designers...
So we're always hanging in one linear system or the other that is ultimately always dull once you're "through".


PS:
People having the need to "max out everything" to feel good are trapped in primitive collector drives ("if I have the most fur coats, surely all the females will come to my cave") and should be pitied for their mental problem, not pampered.

Edited by Paigan, 05 December 2016 - 04:16 AM.

[Cy Mitchell]

El Bandito, on 05 December 2016 - 02:41 AM, said:

The worst part is that PGI is still not offering any detailed info regarding it, even though the skill tree rework is reportedly "done".

Good. Maybe people will actually get on the PTS server and test it next month.