98 replies to this topic

[TWIAFU]

Lily from animove, on 08 December 2016 - 03:02 PM, said:

well, theres your definition of gambling and then theres the one that nearly the entire world uses https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambling

"My" definition come from Websters.

And loot boxes in MWO still cannot be gambling, as per your link that the entire world uses, it does not meet the three requirements.

[TWIAFU]

MechWarrior5152251, on 08 December 2016 - 04:45 PM, said:

Nice that someone is concerned about the addictive gambling problem in Asia. Of course "good" MMOs are even more addictive than crack.

I'm sure all Chinese online gamers are very happy to have code in the games they play that shut off either the game or the loot drops themselves after three hours.

To be honest, that does not sound nice to me at all. Would that be nice if your government decided that for you too?

[TWIAFU]

TLBFestus, on 08 December 2016 - 05:12 PM, said:

Would you prefer the term "Lottery with unknown odds"?

You know the odds, they range from Common to Rare.

You do understand this is for CHINA only, right?

More like, here is the money to buy the lottery ticket and you get a prize at random, but you always get something for nothing.


Not to mention, I do believe our Crates do not fall under Blind Loot Box. We know exactly what is in them BEFORE we open them.

Edited by TWIAFU, 08 December 2016 - 05:42 PM.

[SuomiWarder]

The Chinese have a long time and very large gambling culture. It's not that surprising that something like this came up related to players knowing odds. And frankly, they may have made many similar laws on other things like the little prize balls from a container at the street market that we don't know about because we rarely here about Chinese laws in our media.

[xengk]

The law only affect game hosted in China.
This is not as bad as they requiring developer to hand over game source code to the Department of Culture for vetting, hence source code leaks and private servers is frequent.

[KoalaBrownie]

TWIAFU, on 08 December 2016 - 01:48 PM, said:

Cute.

Best you can do for imparting knowledge?

Ok then, why should PGI, add code that limits online play to three hours to MWO for China or automatically cut off loot boxes as loot after three hours?

After that, why should they make code changes to show odds of these loot boxes for China players?

Does PGI even have enough Chinese players to actually give a flying ****?

I frankly don't care about the impact on MWO. I care more about the impact that it would have in games in general. Random loot boxes like in Hearthstone, Overwatch, etcetera are becoming increasingly more common. Many of these games are full-priced games to boot and not even free to play like MWO. If China being {Richard Cameron} helps consumers get a better product then good for us.

The odds of winning the lottery is one in millions but people still play, is knowing the odds of loot boxes in X game going to adversely affect sales that much? I doubt it.

Edited by KoalaBrownie, 08 December 2016 - 10:38 PM.

[TWIAFU]

KoalaBrownie, on 08 December 2016 - 10:37 PM, said:

I frankly don't care about the impact on MWO. I care more about the impact that it would have in games in general. Random loot boxes like in Hearthstone, Overwatch, etcetera are becoming increasingly more common. Many of these games are full-priced games to boot and not even free to play like MWO. If China being {Richard Cameron} helps consumers get a better product then good for us.

The odds of winning the lottery is one in millions but people still play, is knowing the odds of loot boxes in X game going to adversely affect sales that much? I doubt it.

It wont have ANY impact on us. None. Zero. Zilch.

We do NOT live in China. This is for China ONLY.

You will NOT see any odds other then what we have now because we do not live in China.

One more time, this is for China only. This has no bearing outside of China.

[Lily from animove]

TWIAFU, on 09 December 2016 - 04:13 AM, said:

It wont have ANY impact on us. None. Zero. Zilch.

We do NOT live in China. This is for China ONLY.

You will NOT see any odds other then what we have now because we do not live in China.

One more time, this is for China only. This has no bearing outside of China.

it will, maybe not in MWO, but it will, all games run in china layed by people outside china will see the odds, any company like blizzard will open the odds should they not implement a seperation for chinse vs non chinese players.

ANY impact? it will have impact, may this be excluding chinese players or seperating them somehow in many games or revealing the odds.

[TWIAFU]

Lily from animove, on 09 December 2016 - 04:17 AM, said:

it will, maybe not in MWO, but it will, all games run in china layed by people outside china will see the odds, any company like blizzard will open the odds should they not implement a seperation for chinse vs non chinese players.

ANY impact? it will have impact, may this be excluding chinese players or seperating them somehow in many games or revealing the odds.

Ok, since we are not here playing games made in China, zero impact. Since we are not Chinese citizens living in China, zero impact. I am not playing Second Life, I am playing MWO.

There already IS a separation between Chinese and non-chinese players. Games played IN China must have code that turns off the loot boxes and/or the game itself after three hours. That is law in China. Now, come 2017, any game played IN China that has Blind Loot Boxes, must show odds. An example of those boxes are those found in Overwatch.

This law has no bearing on any gamer outside of China. If you are playing in the States, Canada, Europe, anyplace BUT China, we won't see odds in MWO due to this Law.

I get it, people want to see odds in exact numbers, using this Chinese BS Law, IMO BS as a person the enjoys freedom to choose, as an excuse or reason as to why it will happen here is only diluted.

If this Law imposed on the Chinese had any relevance outside of China we would also have to accept the Law they have that automatically turns off your game after three hours or shuts off the loot boxes. That is Chinese Law as well.

Or are people just going to continue to cherry pick to suit self interests?

That was rhetorical...

[Lily from animove]

TWIAFU, on 09 December 2016 - 05:06 AM, said:

Ok, since we are not here playing games made in China, zero impact. Since we are not Chinese citizens living in China, zero impact. I am not playing Second Life, I am playing MWO.

and MWO is played by chinese people, therefore IT HAS impact, just because of YOU not being chinese or MWO not being chinsese, does not mean it will not have any impact.

The remaining blah blah of you about law is nonsense. Chinese laws have impact on companies and gamers from china, it also has impact on companies distributing their games there, and this is why it does has an effect on players being non chinese.

The most easy and real example is the Hakenkreuz/swastika and some other relevant symbols of that time. Because it is forbidden by law in GERMANY, it is forcing game companies who distribute their games in germany to keep their game clean. This even affects american players on american servers of game companies not even in germany. Because simply due to the thing that germans can access american servers too. The only way to go around this is sepreating these players, which some companies do, but most smaller games and companies will not do that, as it is too much effort. They willc hoose an universal solution. And thats why this chinese law will have an effect even if you aren'T chinese, and MWO isn't chinese, but simply because of chinese players being able to play MWO. The law is not relevant on the chinese, it is relevant on companies wanting to distribute their game in china.
Huge games like Overwatch can take the measures to show and analyse who is a chinese player or not, they can add seperate code. Smaller games will not go with different solutions for different locations. They will mostlikely do ONE solution that works in all locations.

So just because that law isn't having a direct effect on you doesn't means it will not have any impact on you. it has impact on MWO, and this will have sideeffects on the MWO players.

Edited by Lily from animove, 09 December 2016 - 05:26 AM.

[TWIAFU]

Lily from animove, on 09 December 2016 - 05:23 AM, said:

So just because that law isn't having a direct effect on you doesn't means it will not have any impact on you. it has impact on MWO, and this will have sideeffects on the MWO players.

As per our discussion Lily, I have a good deal of respect for your view and yourself.

It will have impact on those players IN China. Fail to see how Chinese Law will impact anyone outside China, like you and I.

How does the code that turns off boxes or turns off your game after three hours impact you and I?

It does not. If it did, you could not play for more then three hours a day in your Country because of Chinese Law.

Do not care at all how this effect Blizzard. They have put in code that turns off the game for Chinese players. They will have to show odds for Chinese players, IF those loot boxes are of the "Blind" variety.

IF PGI has MWO in China, not even sure if they do, they have added code to turn off the game and or loot boxes due to Chinese Law. 2017, they will have to show odds to Chinese players in China.

What is the side effect you expect to non China residents to a Chinese Law and MWO? Will we see odds? Will we only be able to play for three hours a day? Do you want PGI to impose Chinese Law upon all MWO players? Do you want PGI to pick and choose what Chinese Law to follow? Should we even care about Chinese Law in the free world in relation to video games?

There are far bigger problem in relation to China and the rest of the world that deserve far more effort then this non-issue.



For such a small nice game like MWO, easiest thing, if not done already, is to not export (lack of better word) MWO to China.
Maybe PGI has more of a global conscience and does not put MWO into the China market due to Chinas censorship and human right abuses.

Chinese gamers that want to play MWO can continue to use VPNs to bypass those censorship and cultural laws they have imposed.

[Dimento Graven]

TWIAFU, on 09 December 2016 - 07:07 AM, said:

...

<stuff>

...

I agree with Twaifu, it appears to NOT affect any non-resident Chinese players, PGI, or any other combination.

While it would be nice to have the information published, because, hey, more info for your customers has NEVER ended up being BAD for the customer, this is not something that's an earth shattering, PGI killing, China bombs Canada kind of event.

Pretty sure that everyone NOT living in China can just relax...

[cazidin]

Why do we need the numbers? It's generally accepted that the chance of winning anything good, like a mechbay, a new mech, or MC are virtually nil, whereas the chance of winning a gauss rifle or machine gun are very good.

[KoalaBrownie]

TWIAFU, on 09 December 2016 - 04:13 AM, said:

It wont have ANY impact on us. None. Zero. Zilch.

We do NOT live in China. This is for China ONLY.

You will NOT see any odds other then what we have now because we do not live in China.

One more time, this is for China only. This has no bearing outside of China.

Heard of this thing called the internet? It allows people to share information. It's pretty neat

[mogs01gt]

Kshahdoo, on 08 December 2016 - 07:05 AM, said:

http://www.vg247.com...-probabilities/

Great idea and should have been implemented ten years ago.

[TWIAFU]

Dimento Graven, on 09 December 2016 - 08:15 AM, said:

I agree with Twaifu, it appears to NOT affect any non-resident Chinese players, PGI, or any other combination.

While it would be nice to have the information published, because, hey, more info for your customers has NEVER ended up being BAD for the customer, this is not something that's an earth shattering, PGI killing, China bombs Canada kind of event.

Pretty sure that everyone NOT living in China can just relax...

I do understand players desire to see actually odds posted in a number format, I get that. But using a Foreign countries Laws, China non the less!, and what BS they impose on it's citizens as a reason as why WE will have it, and with all due respect, is ignorant.

I fear doing this opens a can of worms and any "benefits" gained by such an action would be quickly buried under sudden math Phd's, statisticians, and the overly self righteous on the evils of "gambling".

I do agree information is valuable and needed to make informed choices. Information can also be a boon or bane.

cazidin, on 09 December 2016 - 10:18 AM, said:

Why do we need the numbers? It's generally accepted that the chance of winning anything good, like a mechbay, a new mech, or MC are virtually nil, whereas the chance of winning a gauss rifle or machine gun are very good.

Not to mention they give us the "odds" in word format and not number.

[TWIAFU]

KoalaBrownie, on 09 December 2016 - 10:39 AM, said:

Heard of this thing called the internet? It allows people to share information. It's pretty neat

However, that depends on where you are doesn't it?

Hard to share information if your internet access is censored to the point where you are blocked, by Governmental Law, on what you are able to access.

Kinda neat huh?



Please bring something that has any bearing on the topic at hand next time.

[TWIAFU]

mogs01gt, on 09 December 2016 - 10:43 AM, said:

Great idea and should have been implemented ten years ago.

Im not so sure that Chinese gamers would agree with you, hell, maybe they would. Hard to find out as they deal with such internet censorship. I know that kinda crap would not fly in the free world.

Great idea to have your gaming ended after three hours in a day, by Governmental Law?

Such a great idea you willing to give up your freedom to choose because big brother knows best for you?

Yep, great idea.

[Wiley Coyote]

How has no one posted this before now?

[Dimento Graven]

TWIAFU, on 09 December 2016 - 12:00 PM, said:

I do understand players desire to see actually odds posted in a number format, I get that. But using a Foreign countries Laws, China non the less!, and what BS they impose on it's citizens as a reason as why WE will have it, and with all due respect, is ignorant.

I disagree, instead I find it... convenient.

Quote

I fear doing this opens a can of worms and any &quot;benefits&quot; gained by such an action would be quickly buried under sudden math Phd's, statisticians, and the overly self righteous on the evils of &quot;gambling&quot;.

LOL! Dude, how would that be any different from any other aspect of the game where the information is posted as clearly as possible?

This very forum overflows with posts from statisticians (both those that actually are, and those who just think they are) and analysts and all the rest.

Meh, I doubt one more tidbit for them all to chew on and debate is gonna break the internet...

Quote

I do agree information is valuable and needed to make informed choices. Information can also be a boon or bane.

I haven't yet found any information on how a specific aspect of a game works as a "bane". I can't imagine what the 'hazard' of publishing this information in non-generic terms would be, other than, as you imply, lots of people pissing and moaning about the actual odds, demanding them be 'improved' to favor the player more.

But so what? As with so many other threads on this forum, they'll most likely be ignored by PGI anyway.

Quote

Not to mention they give us the &quot;odds&quot; in word format and not number.

Yeeeeeeaaaaaahhhhhh... Ambiguous terms that could mean anything and to which the definitions might change from scenario to scenario?

Sorry, but due to my background and experience, anyone doing anything like that is PROBABLY hiding something, which incites my curiosity even further.

Sorry but I'm just a suspicious person and if a direct question isn't answered 'directly and precisely', I naturally assume you're up to no good.

Taking my tin-foil hat off for a moment (GAAHHHH!!! MAKE THE CIA LUNCH MENU STOP!!!) I am very certain PGI isn't up to some nefarious scheme to 'cheat' everyone out of their hard earn MC. (Putting the tin-foil hat back on) But being "very certain" is not being 100% sure, is it?

Wiley Coyote, on 09 December 2016 - 12:13 PM, said:

How has no one posted this before now?

LOL, ok, there's a thread winner if I ever saw one!