35 replies to this topic

[Xmith]

cazidin, on 08 December 2016 - 02:51 PM, said:

Hmm... so, a la carte I can spend $20 for 2 mechs, instead of $20 for 3. This option doesn't seem particularly appealing to me, at all, even if it's only $15 for 2, I'd still most likely throw more money away for less. A good deal is only ever good to for the business, not the consumer. Ferengi Rule of Acquisition #103.

I think a lot of people forget PGI is in the business of making money. Every decision they make when it come to mech sales is designed to increase their bottom line.

[Alteran]

Unless you need the Mechbays for the Mech, there is no need to purchase Mechs for $$ now.

Personally, I'm at a point where I can use patience to wait for the Mech's release for Cbills. Sure I don't get the Hero, but they aren't really all that special.

With monthly rollovers of Mechs, I can buy new Mechs all the time. That and I don't have to see what I purchased with real $$ nerfed into the ground.

[Bud Crue]

Viktor Drake, on 08 December 2016 - 03:54 PM, said:

But that is only some mechs. I would like to point to the upcoming Marauder IIC as an example. Aside from the Freebie, Early Adopter mech, all the variants are significantly different enough to warrant owning each one of them. Additionally there is no way in hell that I will know what one or ones I will find exciting to play until I have built out and played each variant a few dozen times in game.

Also you bring up the Archer and the Warhammer and asking why would you chose one over the other and the answer is because they are two different shaped mechs. The type and number of hardpoints on a mech only accounts for maybe 20% of the value of a build. Location of those hardpoints makes a massive difference. Hitbox size and shape make a massive difference. Hell the overall height, weight or length of a mech can make a massive difference and this is before taking into account such things as the movement archetype, torso twist and pitch angles, twist and pitch speeds, accel and decel values, arm range of motion, type of arm actuators available, etc.

Then there is the simple fact that many people might want to buy two of the same variant just so they can specialize different builds on them.

So no, the Mech Pack isn't going way and will still be very relevant in the future.

Agree, but there is redundancy in a lot of mechs, and that is why folks are happy to not have to buy or elite 3 just to master the ones they want under the new system.

My point is merely that between two mechs with the same loadouts, one mech is going to have better hit boxes and/or better hard point locations than the other. Nine times out of ten you'd be better off just getting two versions of that "better" mech rather than be forced to acquire a distinct variant that has inferior hardpoint locations and/or inferior hit boxes. Thus, my example of the Archer 2R and Warhammer 7S, in most cases the Hammer is superior. But you don't have to be that silly to make the point. I mean consider most of the resistance variants:

Sans quirks, are the Black Knights really all that distinctive? If you didn't "need" three different variants would you really bother? Same with Grasshoppers. Same with Wolfhounds. Same with Crabs. Yes I can see a desire for three (or more) because I am a bit odd and there are in fact subtle differences in them, but from a meta perspective. No. Each of these mechs has one or perhaps two versions that are objectively better than the others, and those are the ones people will take if there is no more requirement for three distinct variants. And if they want a third? Then they will almost certainly get a duplicate of that objectively better variant.

[El Bandito]

cazidin, on 08 December 2016 - 11:45 AM, said:

That may be true, so see point 2. Redundant mechs with similar hardpoints can have different loadouts without demanding you spend MC to get a full refund, or C-Bills and have to grind it over. Plus, the Archer and Warhammer have VERY different geometry and play very differently.

One is clearly more viable than the other. Unfortunately.

[Ted Wayz]

cazidin, on 08 December 2016 - 11:38 AM, said:

Greetings Mechwarriors. Today I have a simple question. Why is ANYONE asking for a single mech purchase with mechpacks? The rule of 3 for mastery may be gone, sure, but each of the chassis have different loadouts and, as the new skill tree will be unique to each individual mech, it makes sense to have these variants or be forced to respect.

Nevermind the fact that PGI would most likely sell singles at $10 or $15, giving much greater value to the bundle packs. Why get less for more money?

So you are guessing what they would charge for singles and then conjecture "why get less for more money"?

I can play that game.

PGI will sell single mechs at a penny a piece. Why buy mechpacks and get less for more money? Just as credible.

Again, there are few mechs with more than one or two viable variants. But given you guys know of so many with 3 or more...list them.

Edited by Ted Wayz, 08 December 2016 - 06:43 PM.

[Wil McCullough]

Xmith, on 08 December 2016 - 04:35 PM, said:

I think a lot of people forget PGI is in the business of making money. Every decision they make when it come to mech sales is designed to increase their bottom line.

they could be absolutely insidious with this.

- option of purchasing a single mechpack at the same cost of $20
- comes with 10k gxp for easier mastering + a cockpit item
- title of "The One" or something

considering it'll take mc to re-spec, they can now wait for the money to roll in. especially if they keep tweaking quirks to balance them.

*cue evil laugh*

[cazidin]

Ted Wayz, on 08 December 2016 - 06:42 PM, said:

So you are guessing what they would charge for singles and then conjecture "why get less for more money"?

I can play that game.

PGI will sell single mechs at a penny a piece. Why buy mechpacks and get less for more money? Just as credible.

Again, there are few mechs with more than one or two viable variants. But given you guys know of so many with 3 or more...list them.

No. I'm playing business and I'm winning bigly, ok? I'm very good at business, I'm very smart, I've done a lot of business, I'm very successful. I don't need to argue this with you on some internet forums but I will.

Look, if PGI changes mechpacks to singles then we're in big trouble, folks. Really big trouble. It'd be an absolute disaster, the worst we've seen since the last absolute disaster. PGI makes a lot of bad choices, they're terrible, just terrible. They don't have someone like me in charge, I'd set this game right again. I wouldn't need a balance overlord, what even is a balance overlord?

Anyway. Single mechpacks. Terrible idea, just terrible. Why spend $10 for a single mech? I'd rather pay $20 for 3. Ala carte just won't happen. If PGI can make more money off of you they will. That's just good business and trust me, I should know.

Don't listen to this guy, folks. He's bad idea Ted.

Edited by cazidin, 08 December 2016 - 08:04 PM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Bud Crue, on 08 December 2016 - 05:22 PM, said:

Agree, but there is redundancy in a lot of mechs, and that is why folks are happy to not have to buy or elite 3 just to master the ones they want under the new system.

My point is merely that between two mechs with the same loadouts, one mech is going to have better hit boxes and/or better hard point locations than the other. Nine times out of ten you'd be better off just getting two versions of that "better" mech rather than be forced to acquire a distinct variant that has inferior hardpoint locations and/or inferior hit boxes. Thus, my example of the Archer 2R and Warhammer 7S, in most cases the Hammer is superior. But you don't have to be that silly to make the point. I mean consider most of the resistance variants:

Sans quirks, are the Black Knights really all that distinctive? If you didn't "need" three different variants would you really bother? Same with Grasshoppers. Same with Wolfhounds. Same with Crabs. Yes I can see a desire for three (or more) because I am a bit odd and there are in fact subtle differences in them, but from a meta perspective. No. Each of these mechs has one or perhaps two versions that are objectively better than the others, and those are the ones people will take if there is no more requirement for three distinct variants. And if they want a third? Then they will almost certainly get a duplicate of that objectively better variant.

Oh I definitely see where you coming from and yeah mechs like the Black knight and some others don't really have much to distinguish them. HOWEVER....Russ did make mention that baseline quirks might actually end up staying on the individual variants and if that is the case, you might want to purchase the different variants just for the quirks.

But yeah I am with you. I am glad the are finally dropping the 3 mech requirement because there are absolutely a few mechs I am interested in but have never purchased because I have only been really interested in one of the variants. however on the vast majority of mechs I own, I would never have purchased just one variant.

[Ted Wayz]

cazidin, on 08 December 2016 - 08:04 PM, said:

No. I'm playing business and I'm winning bigly, ok? I'm very good at business, I'm very smart, I've done a lot of business, I'm very successful. I don't need to argue this with you on some internet forums but I will.

Look, if PGI changes mechpacks to singles then we're in big trouble, folks. Really big trouble. It'd be an absolute disaster, the worst we've seen since the last absolute disaster. PGI makes a lot of bad choices, they're terrible, just terrible. They don't have someone like me in charge, I'd set this game right again. I wouldn't need a balance overlord, what even is a balance overlord?

Anyway. Single mechpacks. Terrible idea, just terrible. Why spend $10 for a single mech? I'd rather pay $20 for 3. Ala carte just won't happen. If PGI can make more money off of you they will. That's just good business and trust me, I should know.

Don't listen to this guy, folks. He's bad idea Ted.

Single packs would be a disaster how and why? Any specifics? Or just because you wave your hands when you say it?

And again $10 for a single mech, where does that even come from? If I say it would be a dollar my guess is just as likely as your guess.

But hey, you have my vote to be in charge. With big ideas like keeping the same monetization strategy as PGI how could you not be a great business person? BTW, how does needing 3 work for clan mechs again?

[MauttyKoray]

Bud Crue, on 08 December 2016 - 11:43 AM, said:

Because some mechs are utterly redundant from a potential load out perspective -especially under the new system (as far as we can tell). Example why should I have to buy an Archer-2R as part of the basic pack if I already have a Warhammer-7S. From just a potential load-out perspective, they are functionally identical (6E and 3M hardpoints). Lots of mechs are like this.

Different locations for their hardpoints and the profiles, tonnage, and general play of either mech are NOT the same, regardless of them being able to carrysimilar or the same loadouts.

[cazidin]

Ted Wayz, on 08 December 2016 - 08:27 PM, said:

Single packs would be a disaster how and why? Any specifics? Or just because you wave your hands when you say it?

And again $10 for a single mech, where does that even come from? If I say it would be a dollar my guess is just as likely as your guess.

But hey, you have my vote to be in charge. With big ideas like keeping the same monetization strategy as PGI how could you not be a great business person? BTW, how does needing 3 work for clan mechs again?

$10 is an educated guess, simply because PGI won't make it $6.66, or round down to 5. 7 would be an odd number. No. 10 is the number they'd choose, and you'd be charged an extra $3.34 per singles purchased. It could be more, it could be less, yeah you're right but atm this is a very safe guess - it would be bad for PGI to sell a product for less than what they've determined it's worth. Every single business has a singular goal in mind; profit.

As for clans, Omni-pods which may not be available otherwise and for different skill trees on different chassis. Basically, my Timberwolf Prime could be an energy boat but my Timberwolf D is a missile boat, each levelled up accordingly.

[Tordin]

I want duo/ combo mech packs.
Each mont a new weight class, cycling through light, medium, heavy, assault. OR a bit more dynamic.
Each time 2 x 2 separate packs, 1 pack with 1 mech chassi and variants for IS, 1 pack with 1 mech chassi for Clan with variants.
That or up it to 1 pack with 2 different mech chassi with the option to only choose one of the chassi if you want, degrading it to the first alternative example.
A nice compromise between the old 4 packs and current 1 packs.

Example.

January

Flea pack for IS
Cougar pack for Clan


OR

Flea and Valkyrie pack for IS
Cougar and Fire Moth pack for Clan

Buying both IS and Clan collections could give a discount.

Edited by Tordin, 09 December 2016 - 07:57 AM.

[Radbane]

(To OP) Because:
1) ECM mechs > regular mechs, and noone in their sane mind would play a non ECM variant of a mech that has that option.
2) Omnimechs... just level one and replace the hardpoints after your desire.
3) There's generally just one variant that is better than the rest, even for those who do not have ECM at all.

People see no need for more than one mech now.


That's why I still hope for some Synergi/Bonus for those who do spend time between variants. Example, if you've unlocked a certain skill on a Catapult C1, that skill will be cheaper (in XP and C-bills) to unlock on a Butterbee. Or (and I'm probably alone here) requirements to actually have say tier 2 skills in two mechs before you can upgrade to tier 3, and maybe tier 4 in three mechs before you go up to tier 5. But that would mean they need to lessen the grind we've seen on the placeholder values though.

I want to see variations and diversity, and I fear it'll dissapear with the option to just focus on that one mech that is better than the variants.

Edited by Radbane, 09 December 2016 - 08:11 AM.

[Bandilly]

cazidin, on 09 December 2016 - 07:16 AM, said:

$10 is an educated guess, simply because PGI won't make it $6.66, or round down to 5. 7 would be an odd number. No. 10 is the number they'd choose, and you'd be charged an extra $3.34 per singles purchased. It could be more, it could be less, yeah you're right but atm this is a very safe guess - it would be bad for PGI to sell a product for less than what they've determined it's worth. Every single business has a singular goal in mind; profit.

Right, a la carte would be $10-15 for basic mechs. I would also expect heroes would have to be priced higher than their current $15, because they are currently an add on only option.

Pricing just gets uglier and early adopter bonuses more nonsensical if they go to singles. The current system is pretty solid in its structure.

The changes I would like to see in the current system are:

1. Less premium time. Players who preorder everything end up with years of premium time. Too much premium time is why some players are downgrading their spending to basic packs instead of collector's packs.
2. Some extras to cover the dropped premium, maybe a bit of MC.
3. A small discount on the ultimate package. With a $5-10 discount they would sell a lot more of these and ultimately make more money.

I think with these changes players would feel they were getting more for their money, be more likely to buy the larger packs, and PGI would end up making more.

Edited by Bandilly, 09 December 2016 - 08:20 AM.

[Hunka Junk]

Mech packs?

Pfft.

I have way so many mech bays now. I'll go play another non-beta game and then pick them up as they become available.

4 months from now, I might not even be playing, but I still have 6 months of premium.

[cazidin]

Ted Wayz, on 08 December 2016 - 08:27 PM, said:

Single packs would be a disaster how and why? Any specifics? Or just because you wave your hands when you say it?

And again $10 for a single mech, where does that even come from? If I say it would be a dollar my guess is just as likely as your guess.

But hey, you have my vote to be in charge. With big ideas like keeping the same monetization strategy as PGI how could you not be a great business person? BTW, how does needing 3 work for clan mechs again?

Hey, remember when you said that PGI wouldn't do this, that I was pulling numbers out of nether space, etc? Guess who made a tweet confirming my theory?