35 replies to this topic

[RestosIII]

Clan Diamond Shark gets added. All of the old FW/CW promised features get added. I'm appointed head of commerce in the Inner Sphere for Clan Diamond Shark. I make everyone that appreciates my gifs rich, while also being rich myself. That would be the perfect endgame for me.

[El Bandito]

1v1 and 4v4 Solaris leaderboards = Endgame. This is a PVP game, after all. Nothing more satisfying than beating up others in an honest duel after mastering your best mechs. And then it is brag time!

Edited by El Bandito, 09 December 2016 - 08:59 PM.

[Mole]

I dunno man. I just enjoy collecting, building, and fighting updated versions of the big stompy robots that I collected, built, and fought when I was growing up. I'm not excusing PGI for their broken promises nor am I going to sit here and tell you that PGI makes good decisions, but I am going to tell you that if I were not happy with this game for what it is I would not be playing it. It'd be neat if the game could be more than what it is like it was supposed to be, but I'll be content as long as they keep feeding me new 'mechs to collect and there's still a server and playerbase to play with.

EDIT: Oh, I would REALLY like some new technology, more specifically weapons, added to this game.

Edited by Mole, 09 December 2016 - 08:15 PM.

[Johnny Z]

This is easy. A finished epic galactic war. Fighting to defend New Avalon and the rest of the capital worlds. This along with Aerotech involvement and building player resources like mechbay and jumpships and dropships and maybe support vehicles.

Its all in the Battletech Universe. Make it all and then some

There is a long list of other things like Solaris and maybe PVE missions and things as well.

Edited by Johnny Z, 09 December 2016 - 08:59 PM.

[Spheroid]

All I wanted was a 21st century MPBT. I was too young and the internet too primitive at the time for me to partake. The winning formula was already worked out. All they had to do was clone what had worked in the past.

[SilentScreamer]

Pre-Clan release I thought that Clan mechs in Community Warfare would make a great endgame. Only top players would earn the right to pilot clan mechs, they would not be purchasable. Clan pilots would be required to re-earn that honor periodically. That is not how Clans/CW were implemented, but that would have been my endgame.

RANT

Spoiler

Tristan Winter, on 09 December 2016 - 11:33 AM, said:

According to Wikipedia, an endgame is "The gameplay available in a massively multiplayer online role-playing game for characters that have completed their level progression".

For those of you who were gaming back when World of Warcraft was new, the "endgame" was basically all the cool stuff that you could unlock when you hit level 60. There was PVP for level 50-60, I believe. And of course, there was a lot of special gear when you hit level 60. But most importantly, there was the level 60 dungeon where you would get raids together and have a jolly good time. Molten Core, Blackwing Lair, etc. Not only was this inaccessible to lower level players, it was also a lot more complex and required a lot better coordination and preparation.

MWO is not an MMORPG. It's basically just a series of matches where you bring your mech. It's kind of similar to Star Conflict, except Star Conflict has different tiers. They're basically like levels in an MMORPG. As you buy ships of higher tiers, you can engage in matches at a higher level, where gameplay is more complex and all the ships have better stats, have more special abilities, etc. MWO isn't like that either.

MWO is basically like chess. In chess, there's no "endgame" in the sense of MMORPGs. The endgame in chess is what you call the end of the match. In chess, you just play match after match after match. You can improve your rank, but there's no real end goal, so there's no grind. Playing the game is the goal.

I hear people talk about an endgame for MWO. Usually it's something like:

• Community Warfare / Faction Play should be the endgame. (Only makes sense if CW / FP is restricted)
  
• Mastering / upgrading your mechs should be the endgame. (Makes no sense)
  
• Collecting new mechs should be the endgame. (Makes no sense)
  
• Achievements and titles should be the endgame. (Makes no sense)
  
• Cosmetic rewards should be the endgame. (Makes no sense)
  
• Leaderboards should be the endgame. (Makes no sense, unless Leaderboard is restricted to Tier 1, for example.)

Do you think that MWO needs an endgame, in the sense of MMORPG endgames or the Star Conflict example above, where certain content is off-limits until you reach a certain level? One example would be a separate Tier 1 queue, for example. (Yes, yes, settle down)

Or do you prefer MWO to have no separate endgame, to keep it like chess or tennis or poker. Just a series of matches you play for fun while trying to improve your skills.

Mechwarrior Online is half simulator half shooter, I would not look toward Warcraft or any other RPG as inspiration for endgame.

MMORPGs players typically focus endgame on one or two characters. The endgame as you stated beings at max level, at which point special gear is obtained to further max the character. At that point perform differs based on the player's skill, not the characters stats or equipment. The end of endgame then would be when the player (not character) achieves a level of skill recognized as above their peers, either through a) PvE dungeons that require above average skill and coordination or 2) PvP by directly defeating other players. That recognition may show as special titles, cosmetics or other unlocks.

In Mechwarrior Online each mech could be considered as an RPG character. Max level, just as in RPG is achieved by earning max experience. While players could master just one or two mechs the typical long term player will have dozens of mechs, but that difference is not important. After max "level" is reached comes maxing equipment. This is curently the module slot unlocked by Mastering a mech but modules are planned to be merged with Skills/XP so that aspect will disapear. Finally comes achievement: MWO is strictly a PvP environment, so how do you measure?

Every player has their own ideal, in no particular order:
1) Kill/Death ratio
2) Win/Loss ratio
3) Leaderboards
4) Touraments/World Championships
5) Faction Points
6) Player Skill Rating/Tier
7) Specific Achievements ( i.e. Ace of Spades or Deathstar)
8) Number of mechs mastered

So which is most important and which are meaningless? Just about every player in MWO would give a different answer than the others. If there were special mechs or equipment unlocked by any of the above, there might be more focus on one of the above priorities over the others. Since there is no such thing in MWO the endgame for MWO is what each player chooses to measure their own performance by. Kind of counter-intuitive for a strictly PvP game.

Edited by SilentScreamer, 09 December 2016 - 09:58 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

I find the notion that a PvP game like MWO even needs an end-game is...ridiculous. Halo multiplayer didn't have an end-game. Battlefield doesn't have an end-game. There's just, the game. Play it, or don't. If a game can't keep you playing simply because the core mechanics are fun and endearing, then the game needs to adapt or die.

[Anjian]

Ideally the game should have some kind of mini tech tree to give players reason to grind for content. Not full tech trees like you see in a Wargaming World of XXXX game. A mini tech tree goes like this.

You have a mech with a number of variants. The tree starts with a starter or basic variant. As you develop this variant, you collect the GXP to unlock the next variant, and then the next variant and so on. Until you unlock all the variants for this particular mech.

So every mech has their own mini tech tree to unlock all variants.

Each variant is not necessarily better than the one previous to it, and its not necessary to unlock every variant, only the particular one you want.

MWO does have an end game, and that is to climb to Tier 1.

However, in my experience all these F2P PvP games, when it comes to happiness, the end game isn't necessary. Kind of like in War Thunder, I quit playing the high tiers, and choose to play on the lower BR 3.7 tiers instead of the 7.7 one.

[Yellonet]

Annihilation of the clans and IS vs IS only after that.

[rolly]

Uh, I dunno... maybe our Unit owning its own virtual dropship and being able to negotiate salvage rights... Just blue skying it here...

Heh, or being able to craft Purple Quality Very Rare Mk. XII machine guns and sell them on the open market...

Collecting all the Ultra rare trading card/MW hats. In particular the Melissa Steiner 3015 fall collection hat...

Edited by rolly, 10 December 2016 - 10:41 AM.

[Hunka Junk]

I think you're taking a rather literal and WoW-centric approach to what endgame means.

In a general sense, it means "Once I have leveled my character to the level cap, what is else is there for me to do with my character?"

Raids/Endgame Dungeons- Very common, very PVE. Doesn't fit here.

Hardcore Mode- In one way or another, crutches and training wheels are removed. In PVE MMOs, a common way to due this is to crank up the AI and give mobs weapons/gear/stats on par with the players. I'd have to think of various ways this might apply to MWO, but the R&R system would be one example (not saying that as an endorsement of that system, just an example).

League Play/Tournament Play- MRBC is where players in this game made their own endgame because there was no endgame.
I would put Solaris here as well.

Strategic Campaign- This is what FP was/is supposed to be. Battles on a larger scale. Every battle meaning something as part of a larger war. Expanded game mechanics beuilt into things like territory possession yielding strategic benefits and such.

Career mode- One pilot accumulates stats, experience, and accolades and in doing so, develops in a story-like progression. Probably again with each battle affecting this progression in a meaningful way.

Chess and tennis have an endgame in the form of ranked play and tournaments. Both are for people who would like to take their play beyond casual matches.

FP was/is the official endgame. PGI has been less than ambitious about programming all the little details that might provide for FP to be a gated experience, but do know that the community went ahead and did that themselves. When I arrived in MWO land, I was curious about FP but more in a long-terms sense than feeling I needed to start it immediately. Looking around the recruitment forums, there were was a very common (not universal) set of standards:

-You needed enough mechs to create a drop deck
-You were expected to have these mechs mastered
-You were expected at a minimum to have seismic and radar derp modules for each mech in the deck
-I never saw this as a requirement, but your mech isn't fully maxed out until you also have/had weapon modules

This may be lost on those that have played for years, but that is a crap ton of play time and cbills to get all of that together. By the time you have all of that, you are definitely beyond being a turnip who just fell off the wagon. Assuming you're not playing day and night, that would take 3-6 months with premium.

And I think that was a reasonable gate to FP the endgame. Now that modules are gone, who knows. But we still don't know how long it will take to do the new skill tree.

WoW created this whole thing about games needing to have 60-100 levels to grind through before reaching endgame. It makes sense especially from a business point of view with subscriptions, but games don't have to have that many levels and take forever and a day to reach that final level. Guild Wars 1 was about 20% grind and 80% endgame. It took me a month to level my first toon, and by the end of it I could level a toon in a weekend. Some people could level a character in 8 hours. The level cap was 20.

So yeah, kitting a full drop deck of mechs with maxed skill points ought to be a sufficient standard to play FP, the endgame. If you want to be pedantic and say that's not the endgame then because of relatively new people are still allowed to play, then just ditch the word endgame. Call it post-leveling content. Call it advanced content. Call it Arthur. It doesn't matter. What matters is that people have something to do with completed mechs other than doing what they did to level their mechs.

Now, the whole idea that your going to gate this content based on PSR has several problems. The most obvious one is that everyone complains that PSR is stupid and broken. If it's stupid and broken, then it's not terribly wise to make it more important. The second issue is population. Now that they've whittled the whole concept of FP down in an effort to address underpopulation, you're now going to make population a problem again. The third problem with gating FP with PSR is that team coordination is more important than any given player being PSR 1. If you really want to gate FP, then requiring everyone to be in a unit might be a better idea. Then again, I guess anybody can just form a solo unit. In the end, I don't think you want to gate it beyond people playing it with leveled mechs and full skill trees. Ban trial mechs, but leave it at that.

That's my opinion.

Your original question was about an ideal endgame. A mech version of Planetside would be awesome.

Not to be provocative, but is your whole OP in anticipation of the new FP being a total biscuit eater? A way to say, yeah well this isn't endgame content anyway and we don't need no steenking endgame content?

[Ted Wayz]

FP with tug of war up to the point of taking the planet which would be a ladder match. With salvage turned back on, pugs assigned in historical faction units, with progression in rank meaning something.

Set in 3025.

[Appogee]

Tristan Winter, on 09 December 2016 - 11:33 AM, said:

What Would Be The Ideal Mwo Endgame?

A bang, not a wimper.

[Tristan Winter]

Hunka Junk, on 10 December 2016 - 12:59 PM, said:

I think you're taking a rather literal and WoW-centric approach to what endgame means.

I only used WoW as an example because I googled endgame and couldn't find any commonly accepted definition except the one on Wikipedia. It's a shame that video games are still relatively new to our culture, so there's a lot of words that you may not find explained properly in the dicitonary. Also, WoW is a game I have a lot of experience with, so I could relate to the definition Wikipedia used.

Hunka Junk, on 10 December 2016 - 12:59 PM, said:

Not to be provocative, but is your whole OP in anticipation of the new FP being a total biscuit eater? A way to say, yeah well this isn't endgame content anyway and we don't need no steenking endgame content?

No, my OP was in response to a lot of people on this forum talking about how MWO lacks an endgame, yet there seems to be a lot of disagreement about (1) what an endgame actually is, and (2) whether we actually need an endgame.

In my mind, it doesn't make a lot of sense to talk about an endgame if you're simply talking about stuff that anyone can do at any point. If you say "The endgame is to get better and have fun", then why call it "endgame"? That's not the endgame, that's the game. The point of any game is to get better and have fun. Or "The endgame is to buy new mechs". That's not the endgame, that's what you start doing your very first day of playing MWO, thanks to the cadet bonus. Buying new mechs is part of the game, it's not the endgame.

The term "endgame" only makes sense, in my view, if it describes exclusive content. I would accept FP as endgame, if you had to own 4 mechs in order to participate, and you couldn't use trial mechs. That's setting the bar extremely low for an 'endgame', but it does qualify.

The reason people have been talking about the "endgame" in MWO in other threads is apparently because people feel that the game should have extra content for veteran players in order to keep them interested when they've reached a certain stage. Like I said, people have different ideas of what "endgame" actually means. But whenever people are talking about an "endgame", it's usually in the context of "things to keep me interested and moltivated after x years of playing MWO".

Appogee, on 10 December 2016 - 01:16 PM, said:

A bang, not a wimper.

RIP in peace, Long Tom

[Requiemking]

RestosIII, on 09 December 2016 - 07:01 PM, said:

Clan Diamond Shark gets added. All of the old FW/CW promised features get added. I'm appointed head of commerce in the Inner Sphere for Clan Diamond Shark. I make everyone that appreciates my gifs rich, while also being rich myself. That would be the perfect endgame for me.

Meh, crystal tuna can wait. I would much prefer a Clan that actually did something, such as Steel Viper or Snow Raven.

[Alteran]

This is pretty simple, for the individual crowd - Solaris. For the units, a fully functional CW/FW/FP Inner Sphere game mode with full on unit economies for Cbills, Mechs, equipment, base holdings and Jumpships.

And please, no BS about coding and all that. If PGI can make a full on new game - MW5, then they can make a fully functional CW.