24 replies to this topic

[naterist]

guys, im seeing a lot of fear that 4.1 will make the same mistakes that 3.0 did, with pugstomps galore killing the inevitable newb population that will come in on launch day and night. it is for that reason that i am proposing a player driven event. opening day i want all experienced faction warfare players to log on in groups of 7. having a group number of seven ensures that the matchmaking que will not put you with others in a unit.you then will be playing matches with 7 experienced members, and 5 pugs who probably wont know a lot about faction warfare. the goal is for the 7 man to try and teach the pugs the basics. im not suggesting anyone goes easy on the newbies, because then learning doesnt happen. but i think the current faction play population should be out there using these 7 man teams to educate. tell the pugs about the different teamspeak servers, encourage them to get a mic and download teamspeak if they havent already. teach them the basics that they may not have learned yet, the kind of stuff you took months to learn, just tell them day one. we can start this phase off with a positive atmosphere, the more positive the better, and maybe thatll help keep the population up. heck, its even a great opportunity for some of the units to do a little recruiting if they want too. but the more we flood the pugs with information day one, the better an environment the rest of fation warfare 4.1 and beyond will be.

Edited by naterist, 11 December 2016 - 03:58 PM.

[BLOOD WOLF]

I think this is something people and units should have been doing already.

[naterist]

Shoulda, woulda, coulda, didnt. Who cares.

We got a chance opening day to catch all the newbs at once. We should take it.

[Count Zero 74]

I will happily farm the **** out of everyone that shows up tomorrow

[naterist]

Count Zero 74, on 11 December 2016 - 08:27 PM, said:

I will happily farm the **** out of everyone that shows up tomorrow

Well if theres any newbs there tommorow they deserve to be farmed, bein a day early and all.

[Count Zero 74]

its already monday over here, so tomorrow for me

[naterist]

touche....

[Monkey Lover]

I have done this lots of times over our the house TS server . I can tell you the issue right away. Those few new people will get your team killed. The skill set of most players isn't large enough to off set even 3 new people. You will get rolled over/over and people will leave your TS server.

It would really help if Russ removed trial mechs from CW. It would help even more if he required a mech to have just basic xp.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 12 December 2016 - 12:04 AM.

[naterist]

Ideally the clanners would get in on it too, and it would only be fore a few games. If you do an 11 man and have 11 guys tutoring one new pug for a match, or several, it still helps. The point is to flood the pugs on both sides with information, and try to instill an atmosphere were people know they need teamwork, and hopefully all will learn the basics. And the more pugs you get into their faction teamspeaks the better.

[Monkey Lover]

naterist, on 12 December 2016 - 12:06 AM, said:

Ideally the clanners would get in on it too, and it would only be fore a few games. If you do an 11 man and have 11 guys tutoring one new pug for a match, or several, it still helps. The point is to flood the pugs on both sides with information, and try to instill an atmosphere were people know they need teamwork, and hopefully all will learn the basics. And the more pugs you get into their faction teamspeaks the better.

This would work if the IS population didn't have the higher count of new people. The upfront cost of clan mechs has always turned people to IS first. This is one of the reasons IS has never won any IS V Clan events. I dont have high hopes for 4.1.

I do agree with you, we always tried to get new people into our TS. Marik being the one, if not the smallest faction always needed more people. Everyone is welcome over on the house website house-marik.com Signup join the Ts join the cw room and group up. Just dont plan on being OP haha

Edited by Monkey Lover, 12 December 2016 - 12:16 AM.

[ShiftySWP and the Pleated Pants]

I dig where your heart and intent are.

I see this working for some smaller units but the higher end units probably are not going to jump on this one. If they do it would be for 1 or 2 drops. If they had high numbers of members in TS3 or ran into a solid 12 on the other side.... your good intent will fall to human nature and desire to be competitive.

From a 1-man unit perspective, I will jump into an MJ12 eleven man(or any eleven man for that matter) team every time over a group of 7. Nobody likes to lose.

I just hope for a high player turn out to water down the que so the 12-man v Pug stompage occurrence is decreased.

That said, if I find myself in a Pug heavy queue with a bunch of unknowns ill jump back into the DC ring and herd/encourage cats once 4.1 hits. Had a great time calling in 2.0 and got pretty good at it. Maybe 4.1 will be time to put the hat back on.

Regardless, I salute (07) your idea hope the positive vibs spread back into CW/FW/FP/(WHAT EVER IT IS NOW) WARFARE.....

Edited by ShiftySWP and the Pleated Pants, 12 December 2016 - 08:34 AM.

[Davegt27]

Quote

guys, im seeing a lot of fear that 4.1 will make the same mistakes that 3.0 did, with pugstomps galore killing the inevitable newb population that will come in on launch day and night. it is for that reason that i am proposing a player driven event. opening day i want all experienced faction warfare players to log on in groups of 7. having a group number of seven ensures that the matchmaking que will not put you with others in a unit.you then will be playing matches with 7 experienced members, and 5 pugs who probably wont know a lot about faction warfare. the goal is for the 7 man to try and teach the pugs the basics. im not suggesting anyone goes easy on the newbies, because then learning doesnt happen. but i think the current faction play population should be out there using these 7 man teams to educate. tell the pugs about the different teamspeak servers, encourage them to get a mic and download teamspeak if they havent already. teach them the basics that they may not have learned yet, the kind of stuff you took months to learn, just tell them day one. we can start this phase off with a positive atmosphere, the more positive the better, and maybe thatll help keep the population up. heck, its even a great opportunity for some of the units to do a little recruiting if they want too. but the more we flood the pugs with information day one, the better an environment the rest of fation warfare 4.1 and beyond will be.

great idea

[MischiefSC]

Don't even need to worry about TS.

What should happen is people avoiding dropping in 12s, sticking to 8s or so and trying to wrap in the new pugs. Just invite them to group. If they want to TS up, great. Otherwise use in game VOIP. If effort is put into showing new players what positives their are for FW you're going to retain more.

Not going to happen though. People will play like they've always played, almost everyone is going Clan, the new players will almost all be IS and get farmed. The new Clan players will never get a match because the queue will be hugely skewed towards Clans and lots of units, who will always move to the front of the queue, pushing the new Clan pugs to the back.

So it'll be units in Clans farming pugs in IS, Clan pugs will have stupid long wait times and everyone will hate it.

Because fishbone statistical analysis of a proposed change is dark sorcery and out of scope for PGI development and changes in game mechanics so they just make poor choices, ignore it for 6-12 months then come back later and act confused as to why people are upset.

[ccrider]

MischiefSC, on 12 December 2016 - 01:46 PM, said:

Don't even need to worry about TS.

What should happen is people avoiding dropping in 12s, sticking to 8s or so and trying to wrap in the new pugs. Just invite them to group. If they want to TS up, great. Otherwise use in game VOIP. If effort is put into showing new players what positives their are for FW you're going to retain more.

Not going to happen though. People will play like they've always played, almost everyone is going Clan, the new players will almost all be IS and get farmed. The new Clan players will never get a match because the queue will be hugely skewed towards Clans and lots of units, who will always move to the front of the queue, pushing the new Clan pugs to the back.

So it'll be units in Clans farming pugs in IS, Clan pugs will have stupid long wait times and everyone will hate it.

Because fishbone statistical analysis of a proposed change is dark sorcery and out of scope for PGI development and changes in game mechanics so they just make poor choices, ignore it for 6-12 months then come back later and act confused as to why people are upset.

you are depressing me. The day after 4.1 drops we are scheduled for our 2 week stay with house Davion.

[Colonel ONeill]

Count Zero 74, on 11 December 2016 - 08:27 PM, said:

I will happily farm the **** out of everyone that shows up tomorrow

You have room in your group? I can hold locks.

[MischiefSC]

Colonel ONeill, on 12 December 2016 - 04:48 PM, said:

You have room in your group? I can hold locks.

He plays with a demanding group. You are *required* to have 1 mech in your deck with NARC and TAG to spot for everyone else. No 4x LRM decks! That's just being selfish.

[justcallme A S H]

Count Zero 74, on 11 December 2016 - 08:27 PM, said:

I will happily farm the **** out of everyone that shows up tomorrow

LOL.

Pity its busy season for work, I won't be able to join in on the even more severe clubbing that is coming!



And double LOL @ people sticking to 7-mans, I mean the whole POINT of this change was to put the 12-mans against each other. A 7man is going to absolutely steam-roll a PUG group, making the overall experience - EVEN BLOODY WORSE.

[Count Zero 74]

...omw to the shed to grab my farming tools

[Kmieciu]

Colonel ONeill, on 12 December 2016 - 04:48 PM, said:

You have room in your group? I can hold locks.

ONeil holds locks for at least .75 second because that's how long it takes to charge Gauss rifles on his Night Gyr :-)

My predictions for "Quick play maps with respawns" is that solo PUGs will get rushed & spawn-camped like you haven't seen before!
The only question is will you bring enough ammo on your Kodiak to finish them off swiftly or run out of Gauss rounds and slowly club them to death with ERPPCs?

Edited by Kmieciu, 13 December 2016 - 03:07 AM.

[TWIAFU]

Kmieciu, on 13 December 2016 - 03:01 AM, said:

ONeil holds locks for at least .75 second because that's how long it takes to charge Gauss rifles on his Night Gyr :-)

My predictions for "Quick play maps with respawns" is that solo PUGs will get rushed & spawn-camped like you haven't seen before!
The only question is will you bring enough ammo on your Kodiak to finish them off swiftly or run out of Gauss rounds and slowly club them to death with ERPPCs?

Of course they will. Nothing else can happen when they bring QP mentality to a teamwork focused game mode.

They cannot even play the modes in QP, why should they be expected to do that in CW?