74 replies to this topic

[Tarogato]

Jublator, on 14 December 2016 - 02:16 PM, said:

First off im not the only one who found it fun.
Second, this game would bring players back (like it did me) with a new mode like that, you wouldnt be splitting anything since people who like to play single mech drop would still do that. What it would do is increase the total amount of players, so QP would get more to (since people experiment etc.)
Third: This game has had nothing really new for Pug players for EVER. Have you ever wondered why the population is so low? Its because it offers NOTHING new to new players for a long time, it only caters to the hardcore club thats dwindling.
This need to change if they want more players since most will not start off in a Clan. Also many dont want that level of participation.
As for the Meta, i cant really say anything about.

If you manage to bring back that super tiny part of the population that left because they wanted respawns, it's not going to improve the game. Because those people will go play the QP respawn mode. They won't contribute to the QP normal queue.

In fact, some people might transfer from playing normal or CW, and go play QP respawn instead. So we're taking a pool of players away from CW and QP normal, thereby diminishing the quality of matches for those modes and increasing their wait times, while simultaneously putting them in a new mode that won't have enough players to sustain decent match making. It's a lose-lose situation.

[TWIAFU]

Jublator, on 14 December 2016 - 02:07 PM, said:

Plz do! Havent read them! =)


Read my longer post above, you naysayer or come with better arguments.

Jublator, on 14 December 2016 - 02:05 PM, said:

Wow you really contributed to the discussion have you? Well thought out argument i must give you credit.

Credit given to you.

Now, I do not have to give any other argument other then No.

My argument stands on it's own based on actual experiences in game. Your BS excuse that premade rolfstomp you, while true they will and do, adding respawn to QP will not change the fact you still get rolfstomped in QP even without respawn. But magically, rolfstomps in QP are the norm and acceptable but not in queues designed for group play, teamwork, and coordination.

Hey, you dont want to get rolfstomped by premades all the time, laughable in of itslef, then stay out of Group and CW where they are allowed to play.

Stick to QP where it is ok to get rolfstomped all day and every day, cause derps gonna derp. Maybe in the bottom of the barrel where you play you can't notice it, but you will in time. 10 out of 12 on your team afraid to fight and run from combat, playing peek a boo, can't play Conquest, Domination, or Assault and all the while not able to play Skirmish no matter the mode will not get any better with 48 mechs. They will do the exact same thing for all four mechs, derp. Giving QP 4 mechs each will make QP four times as worse and further enforce bad gameplay and then EVERYONE suffers when they play QP, Group, or CW.


So, NO! Not only NO, but hell fu*%ing NO.

[Bud Crue]

If you really want QP with respawn, you would be better off tweeting russ to have those annoying "call to arms" popups be modified to tell you when the quick play mode you want is being played...in faction play. Then you just go drop in there and wala: quick play with respawn (which just happens to correspond to a FP match). Only thing currently missing is the "heads up" telling you.

[1453 R]

Jublator, on 14 December 2016 - 01:54 PM, said:

Well my point is if i play quickplay, why the hell would i bother to play my light mechs that probably will get blown to scrap alot sooner then my assaults?

Because you want to? Because you like light 'Mechs more than Fatbros? Because you're a little drunk that day?

Jublator, on 14 December 2016 - 01:54 PM, said:

Because the queue and loading time for matches is so long i never even bother playing my mediums, there is simply no point in it for me due to the fact that i can have more pewpew on my assault.

I almost never take assaults because they're always priority targets and can rarely defend themselves adequately. I prefer mediums for the most part because they get me games quickly and because I can do a better job of operating on the wings of a fight and pouncing on shots of opportunity, which is what I prefer to do in MWO.

Different strokes, mang.

Jublator, on 14 December 2016 - 01:54 PM, said:

The dropdeck made me:
1. Think more strategically what to bring

You don't think there's any strategy in figuring out what to do in one-'Mech games? o_O

Jublator, on 14 December 2016 - 01:54 PM, said:

2. Made me play different sizes of mechs that i outside of faction warfare usually rarely touch

That's on you, man. Nothing's stopping you from playing smaller 'Mechs in Quick Play.

Jublator, on 14 December 2016 - 01:54 PM, said:

3. The Faction Warfare matches with extended points/time systems whathave you work well imo for 4 drops. The skirmishes are A TON of fun. Thats actually what im after more of. I would play skirmish only with dropdeck if i could (with mixed clan and IS on both sides, with clan vs is division it gets to onesided)

What about the folks who feel like Skirmish is a horrible blight of a gamemode that should be excised from MWO forever, like me?

Jublator, on 14 December 2016 - 01:54 PM, said:

4. Way more C-bills potential, also experience on multiple mechs in one go (the skirmishes were not that long really and gave alot more C-bills and exp then quickplay=) )

...or you can play four QP matches in the same space of time and get the same general C-bills/experience. It's a wash, made even washier by the fact that losing an hour-long dropdeck match is a huge experience/C-bill penalty as compared to averaging a two-win/two-loss performance in regular QP.

Jublator, on 14 December 2016 - 01:54 PM, said:

5. PGI just has to add a new queue system to the already existing code for that, they have already got drop decks and maps done etc. they just need to add a queue for specifically this outside of FW.

...or you could play Commodity Warfare? They do have that queue for specifically this - it's the FP queue.

Jublator, on 14 December 2016 - 01:54 PM, said:

Cons:
1. Yes the matches can drag on, but lets face it all losing games drag on usually, if people die quickly then its no problem.

Dragging on for ~5-10 minutes is a different proposition entirely than dragging on for >30.

Jublator, on 14 December 2016 - 01:54 PM, said:

2. Spawn camping. Is this a problem? Yes, why then wont they just make the drop ship lasers instakill inside spawn area? I Found the additions of walls a nice touch, i see no problem there tbh its fixable easily. All games suffer this when you have respawns btw. Minor drawback imo, since you whittle down the enemy and actually can get more kills in etc. then you would if you just get roflstomped the first time and end the round since then they sit in damaged mechs near where you spawn.

Because DropGods aren't fun for either side, and regardless of whatever else you do, at some point you need to leave the protection of a drop zone. If the enemy team has the drop zone locked down it doesn't matter how big that zone is - yer gettin' farm'd, and have to deal with 48 people dying instead of 12 to get out of the shinty match.

Jublator, on 14 December 2016 - 01:54 PM, said:

3. Longer games, well yeah i can agree on that, but then again some people prefer them. Why not have a queue for both?
I mean other games let you queue for several modes at once and go with the first one. Imo if anything it should be a choice.

They do have a queue for both. The long-games, dropdeck Call of Derpy respawn system queue IS CALLED FACTION PLAY.

Jublator, on 14 December 2016 - 01:54 PM, said:

To people screaming NO DONT TAKE AWAY MY QP AS IT IS NOW; YOU SHOULDNT FORCE PEOPLE, i say CHILL THE **** DOWN.

No.

Jublator, on 14 December 2016 - 01:54 PM, said:

This isnt about forcing anyone, its about putting an idea forward, its about using what has become to me a nice part of the game more.

"Putting an idea forward" doesn't mean you're immune to detractors hoping to put your idea right back in the box again. A lot of players consider the drop deck game mode to be completely poisonous, myself among them. We're going to argue against using it for the same reason you argue for using it more - you think it's cool, we think it's obnoxious and bad.

Jublator, on 14 December 2016 - 01:54 PM, said:

This could be a separate queue from the 1 mech quickplay. No reason why you shouldnt be able to queue for both and pick the first one up.

Buckets, bruh. Commodity Warfare just went from eleven buckets to two in order to try and shore up player counts to get enough of a population to give the ghost town Faction Play modes a chance to actually work. Any solution which proposes splitting the playerbase into more/smaller buckets is doomed to failure. To say nothing of misallocation of development resources to yet another boondoggle that wouldn't help the game grow.

Faction Play. It's where dropdeck players go. Sorry man, but that's just about it.

Jublator, on 14 December 2016 - 01:54 PM, said:

You cant learn faction warfare because you get roflstomped by premades all the time, so outside joining one there is no room to test or learn how to utilize the dropdeck properly (read as this mode would not let groups join, it would be Pug vs Pug)

That is what Faction Play players want. They specifically demanded that Piranha engineer the game mode to be unforgiving for puglies/solo players in an attempt to "encourage people to form groups and play MWO The Way It's Meant To Be Played™"...then they're all shocked when their special group-centric game mode designed to be punishing and exclusionary towards solo players is starved for population because rather than forming formal units with ridiculous requirements, the puglies and solo players STUCK TO QUICK PLAY INSTEAD, LIKE COMMODITY WARFARE PEOPLE TOLD THEM TO.

They say "you should only play FP if you're in a unit, scrub!"
We say: "A'ight. See ya later, enjoy your desolate wasteland of a mode."
They say: "Wait, what?! NO! I meant you should go join a unit and play FP! Don't leave, we need bodies!"
We say: "Nah, sorry. I can play QP whenever I want, I don't have time to be someone else's pet tin soldier. But no, srsly. Enjoy FP."
They say: "Noooooooooo Why do they never want to join a unit and spend fifteen+ hours a week adhering to a strict and restrictive schedule, putting all their earnings into the unit's coffers and never playing anything or anywhere other than where the unit tells them to go...?"

So on and so forth. Blame the Commodity Warfare playerbase, not Piranha or the QP guys who just want to QP.

Jublator, on 14 December 2016 - 01:54 PM, said:

So have i missed anything? Leave a comment down below.

Will this work?

[TWIAFU]

Mole, on 14 December 2016 - 02:13 PM, said:

I agree. I don't like getting stomped in FP by premades

But it OK for you to get stomped by PUGs in QP.

Adding respawn will allow you to get stomped by a factor of four, FUN!


If you do not like having to face a GROUP in the two GROUP queues, do not form a Group.

[Jubblator]

TWIAFU, on 14 December 2016 - 02:23 PM, said:

Credit given to you.

Now, I do not have to give any other argument other then No.

My argument stands on it's own based on actual experiences in game. Your BS excuse that premade rolfstomp you, while true they will and do, adding respawn to QP will not change the fact you still get rolfstomped in QP even without respawn. But magically, rolfstomps in QP are the norm and acceptable but not in queues designed for group play, teamwork, and coordination.

Hey, you dont want to get rolfstomped by premades all the time, laughable in of itslef, then stay out of Group and CW where they are allowed to play.

Stick to QP where it is ok to get rolfstomped all day and every day, cause derps gonna derp. Maybe in the bottom of the barrel where you play you can't notice it, but you will in time. 10 out of 12 on your team afraid to fight and run from combat, playing peek a boo, can't play Conquest, Domination, or Assault and all the while not able to play Skirmish no matter the mode will not get any better with 48 mechs. They will do the exact same thing for all four mechs, derp. Giving QP 4 mechs each will make QP four times as worse and further enforce bad gameplay and then EVERYONE suffers when they play QP, Group, or CW.


So, NO! Not only NO, but hell fu*%ing NO.

Thats my point i dont find the samey QP play fun anymore, the new additions to FW were FUN, i want a queue where its PUG vs PUG with mixed mechs. Then its more acceptable to get roflstomped yes, because your enemies start with the same sort of deal (unlike group vs pug). Its about bringing something new, that they dont even have to code so much for, to the table.
I have put in 140 ish hours into Quickplay mostly and i can say for sure im not going back.

[Deathlike]

Tarogato, on 14 December 2016 - 02:15 PM, said:

You know, I never put thought into it this way, but now that you mention it, this is definitely one of those really cool things you lose with respawns.

+1 logic

I saw this occur all the time in MW4... a MW game that was dedicated to respawns (with limited life options, just like this game does). Flanking was always a thing in organized play.

[Mole]

In all honesty I just wish I could bring a mixed Clan and IS drop deck into Faction Play. I know I will never get to do that and I know all the reasons why. I just wish that I didn't have to be limited to one tech base or the other.

[Jubblator]

1453 R, on 14 December 2016 - 02:25 PM, said:

Because you want to? Because you like light 'Mechs more than Fatbros? Because you're a little drunk that day?



I almost never take assaults because they're always priority targets and can rarely defend themselves adequately. I prefer mediums for the most part because they get me games quickly and because I can do a better job of operating on the wings of a fight and pouncing on shots of opportunity, which is what I prefer to do in MWO.

Different strokes, mang.



You don't think there's any strategy in figuring out what to do in one-'Mech games? o_O



That's on you, man. Nothing's stopping you from playing smaller 'Mechs in Quick Play.



What about the folks who feel like Skirmish is a horrible blight of a gamemode that should be excised from MWO forever, like me?



...or you can play four QP matches in the same space of time and get the same general C-bills/experience. It's a wash, made even washier by the fact that losing an hour-long dropdeck match is a huge experience/C-bill penalty as compared to averaging a two-win/two-loss performance in regular QP.



...or you could play Commodity Warfare? They do have that queue for specifically this - it's the FP queue.



Dragging on for ~5-10 minutes is a different proposition entirely than dragging on for >30.



Because DropGods aren't fun for either side, and regardless of whatever else you do, at some point you need to leave the protection of a drop zone. If the enemy team has the drop zone locked down it doesn't matter how big that zone is - yer gettin' farm'd, and have to deal with 48 people dying instead of 12 to get out of the shinty match.



They do have a queue for both. The long-games, dropdeck Call of Derpy respawn system queue IS CALLED FACTION PLAY.



No.



"Putting an idea forward" doesn't mean you're immune to detractors hoping to put your idea right back in the box again. A lot of players consider the drop deck game mode to be completely poisonous, myself among them. We're going to argue against using it for the same reason you argue for using it more - you think it's cool, we think it's obnoxious and bad.



Buckets, bruh. Commodity Warfare just went from eleven buckets to two in order to try and shore up player counts to get enough of a population to give the ghost town Faction Play modes a chance to actually work. Any solution which proposes splitting the playerbase into more/smaller buckets is doomed to failure. To say nothing of misallocation of development resources to yet another boondoggle that wouldn't help the game grow.

Faction Play. It's where dropdeck players go. Sorry man, but that's just about it.


That is what Faction Play players want. They specifically demanded that Piranha engineer the game mode to be unforgiving for puglies/solo players in an attempt to "encourage people to form groups and play MWO The Way It's Meant To Be Played™"...then they're all shocked when their special group-centric game mode designed to be punishing and exclusionary towards solo players is starved for population because rather than forming formal units with ridiculous requirements, the puglies and solo players STUCK TO QUICK PLAY INSTEAD, LIKE COMMODITY WARFARE PEOPLE TOLD THEM TO.

They say "you should only play FP if you're in a unit, scrub!"
We say: "A'ight. See ya later, enjoy your desolate wasteland of a mode."
They say: "Wait, what?! NO! I meant you should go join a unit and play FP! Don't leave, we need bodies!"
We say: "Nah, sorry. I can play QP whenever I want, I don't have time to be someone else's pet tin soldier. But no, srsly. Enjoy FP."
They say: "Noooooooooo Why do they never want to join a unit and spend fifteen+ hours a week adhering to a strict and restrictive schedule, putting all their earnings into the unit's coffers and never playing anything or anywhere other than where the unit tells them to go...?"

So on and so forth. Blame the Commodity Warfare playerbase, not Piranha or the QP guys who just want to QP.



Will this work?

Thanks dude, much better =)
Actually the Skirmish battle in FW was 15 mins only (if not shorther, i might be wrong). To me that was a totally acceptable length of time.

Mole, on 14 December 2016 - 02:31 PM, said:

In all honesty I just wish I could bring a mixed Clan and IS drop deck into Faction Play. I know I will never get to do that and I know all the reasons why. I just wish that I didn't have to be limited to one tech base or the other.

Yeah that would actually solve the issue aswell imo (atleast the "balance" part).

Edited by Jublator, 14 December 2016 - 02:33 PM.

[Jubblator]

Well i dont know, feels like i got what i came for here, unless anyone comes with better arguments then above.
I will probably check in again, until something changes in a better direction for Pug players im putting this game on the shelf again, shame because at its core the game is good. Only lacking in some match variety.
To you still in there, happy hunting

Edited by Jublator, 14 December 2016 - 02:37 PM.

[Johnny Z]

RestosIII, on 14 December 2016 - 10:51 AM, said:

Personally, I dislike the dropdeck system. I feel like you should drop in a single mech for a match, and have to deal with running that for better or for worse. With a dropdeck, there are moments where you'll just go "Eh, time to sacrifice this mech just so I can jump into a different one for this battle", which makes no sense. That, and it still makes me laugh that somehow you're ejecting from the mech and somehow getting into a new dropship that quickly with another mech.

I like drop decks but this is a good point to.

[TWIAFU]

Jublator, on 14 December 2016 - 02:27 PM, said:

Thats my point i dont find the samey QP play fun anymore, the new additions to FW were FUN, i want a queue where its PUG vs PUG with mixed mechs. Then its more acceptable to get roflstomped yes, because your enemies start with the same sort of deal (unlike group vs pug). Its about bringing something new, that they dont even have to code so much for, to the table.
I have put in 140 ish hours into Quickplay mostly and i can say for sure im not going back.

That is QP, but you don't play QP and are not going back. Added respawn will not make your QP fun again. It will make all the things that made QP unfun for you four times as worse.

Get a group or a Unit and start playing where the real fun is.

Jublator, on 14 December 2016 - 02:36 PM, said:

Well i dont know, feels like i got what i came for here, unless anyone comes with better arguments then above.
I will probably check in again, until something changes in a better direction for Pug players im putting this game on the shelf again, shame because at its core the game is good. Only lacking in some match variety.
To you still in there, happy hunting

Or, take your toys and go home if you don't get what you want, that will work too.

Bye.

Edited by TWIAFU, 14 December 2016 - 02:39 PM.

[1453 R]

TWIAFU, on 14 December 2016 - 02:38 PM, said:

Get a group or a Unit and start playing where the real fun is.

1453 R, on 14 December 2016 - 02:25 PM, said:

That is what Faction Play players want. They specifically demanded that Piranha engineer the game mode to be unforgiving for puglies/solo players in an attempt to "encourage people to form groups and play MWO The Way It's Meant To Be Played™"...then they're all shocked when their special group-centric game mode designed to be punishing and exclusionary towards solo players is starved for population because rather than forming formal units with ridiculous requirements, the puglies and solo players STUCK TO QUICK PLAY INSTEAD, LIKE COMMODITY WARFARE PEOPLE TOLD THEM TO.

They say "you should only play FP if you're in a unit, scrub!"
We say: "A'ight. See ya later, enjoy your desolate wasteland of a mode."
They say: "Wait, what?! NO! I meant you should go join a unit and play FP! Don't leave, we need bodies!"
We say: "Nah, sorry. I can play QP whenever I want, I don't have time to be someone else's pet tin soldier. But no, srsly. Enjoy FP."
They say: "Noooooooooo Why do they never want to join a unit and spend fifteen+ hours a week adhering to a strict and restrictive schedule, putting all their earnings into the unit's coffers and never playing anything or anywhere other than where the unit tells them to go...?"

So on and so forth. Blame the Commodity Warfare playerbase, not Piranha or the QP guys who just want to QP.

See?

It's like I knew...

[Tarogato]

Deathlike, on 14 December 2016 - 02:28 PM, said:

I saw this occur all the time in MW4... a MW game that was dedicated to respawns (with limited life options, just like this game does). Flanking was always a thing in organized play.

Yeah, but that was on MW4 open style maps.

MWO's postage stamp maps are another story altogether.

[TercieI]

Tarogato, on 14 December 2016 - 01:56 PM, said:

No.


If people wanted respawns, they'd go play CW. So let them make that decision for themselves.

QFE. "One life" is one of MWO's big appeals.

[Davers]

Jublator, on 14 December 2016 - 02:04 PM, said:

I think it would actually bring people back, it has had me excited to play again tbh.
Just doing quickplay all day long with samey modes gets tiresome. Faction Warfare is so skewd to the benefit of the Clans it has become tiresome real quick.
But this dropdeck mode on QP maps with extended points, i think this would seriously bring more people into the mix.
As it is now i kinda lost the will to play more since the skirmishes only happen in the middle of the take over bar and you get roflstomped by premades. I want more of this but Pug vs Pug

So QP gets tiresome, FW is unbalanced, and the reason you are excited to play again is a feature that isn't in the game? Welcome to the island.

[itsGreyspot]

I may have missed a reply but how would this work for newer players especially those that haven't bought their first mech? Run 4 different trial mechs? That seems kind of overwhelming to a new player still getting used to the game.

Personally, I like the idea where FW is going with the QP game modes tweaked for drop decks. It doesn't give the mix and match of tech but it seems like the qp additions will make faction warfare more accessible in the long run.

[3xnihilo]

King Alen, on 14 December 2016 - 11:06 AM, said:

No no and no, I like Quick Play because it is quick lol I have 7 kids and a Wife and sometimes I just want a quick few drops.

So much this! Right now I have my four biological kids, 2 foster kids, and a pregnant wife due in January. 15 minutes for a quick play is hard enough to find already

[Baulven]

Put it in domination matches with the repair facility inside the circle. You have to destroy both the other teams points and control the circle to rearm (So it's a no go if people are in it or you are taking fire.) Now there is a reason to play domination AND have control over the circle.

On other maps make three realm points. If you control two a repair point is enabled. Need to have no damage for 5 seconds to start rearm.

[Tombs Clawtooth]

Drop decks are why I don't play faction warfare. I hate all games with respawn systems.

If I kill someone, I don't want them coming back. And unlike in most games, a drop deck isn't just a simple respawn. It's an end game achievement for veteran players who have hundreds of hours a month to dedicate to mastering mechs.

If single spawn faction warfare was an option, I'd never touch quickplay again.