385 replies to this topic

[Karl Streiger]

Chuck Jager, on 15 December 2016 - 03:03 AM, said:

If BT never existed and we were making an online game the XL engine idea with differences between the two factions would be the stupidest online game idea ever.

different tech for weapons could be OK, but then adding the engines means that the other side would need around a 20-35% buff to other stuff, and we tried that with quirks. In 90% of the matches the games are decided at 350-600M. So quicker mechs with med long range weapons and a higher alpha do better. (they can also more easily find the time to cool off).

I say throw TT out the window and make the engines function the same, and while we are at it then get rid of std engines. The stock crowd gets their unwashed drawers in a wad, but they can go to private matches stock mode. There is no reason to placate a p*ss poor idea for a bunch of pulp fiction novels. I like santa claus and other fun stories/lore, but I also grew up.

But....my AC 20

[Jarl Dane]

[Hades Trooper]

sure, lets change the IS XL engine, but while your at it, lets also talk about fixed, heatsinks, fixed internals, fixed armour, fixed jump jets, and lower amounts of weapons before incurring ghost heat. then we can talk about IS xl engines.

You friggin IS players want everything and give nothing. Your opinions as a group are so one eyed that everything is useless suggestions due to the lack of understanding how balance is achieved.

[Karl Streiger]

IS Players - Clan Players? As long as MWO players minds is so corrupted and single minded there will never be a solution.

Join the word - see the truth

[Hunka Junk]

Mech The Dane, on 15 December 2016 - 03:15 AM, said:

Spot on.

A further line of evidence is MWOWC. Clear majority of clan mechs there.

And you're right. Instead of trying to balance anything that will result in squeals from the side not getting something, just have everybody play everything. Simple, to the point. Ends a discussion that will not otherwise end.

[Van Hoven]

Proposal:

- IS xL act like clan xL, they still occupy 2 more slots.

- unlock endo ferro for clan omnis, keep engine rating, also unlock standart/xl for omnis (locked engine rating for the ability to swap omnipods)

- give IS ferro +10% armor, IS endo +10% internals

- give standart engines +30% internal structure buff

- remove all weapon quirks

- give 20/40/60/80 ton mechs +15% speed +15% internals (maybe 12.5 for both)

- give 25/45/65/85/90 ton mechs +10% speed +10% internals

- give 30/50/70/95 ton mechs +5% speed +5% internals (maybe 7.5 for both)

To explain: Speed Buff means either a: They can go with a lower engine to have more weapons or b: Well... more speed!

Easy to implement and understand, would go a long way to balance mechs within a given weightclass.
After testing for some time give outliers moderate speed and internal negative or positive quirks (outliers like in very poor or very good geometry and hardpoints)

Another result would be longer TTK in general.

What do you think? (Numbers are arbitrary, but after looking at some mechs it seems like a good starting point)

Edited by Van Hoven, 15 December 2016 - 06:28 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

unlockable ES is something we really need. Funny fact is it would not change a damn thing. Because Mechs that would run with ES afterwards are seldom seen today (exceptions)

I would not grant ES and FF more armor points - rather to keep it in terms of tonnage.

Just without Data but to make it visible:

• STD engine Structure ( + 50)
  
• IS XL ENGINE (+20)
  
• Clan XL Engine (+15) (it smaller so less points)
  
• Heat penalty for ST destruction +33% for IS over Clan
  
• STD STructur (+20)
  
• IS ES Structure (+5)
  
• STD armor (+20)
  
• IS FF armor (+10)
  
• Cl FF armor (+5)

reason: most in IS would choose ES over FF - when FF grants more survivability it might change.


remove quirks as mentioned.
after some time there reamain the issue of Hitboxes, and hardpoints/location and weapon options.

Oh and add MRMs

Edited by Karl Streiger, 15 December 2016 - 06:45 AM.

[0bsidion]

Andi Nagasia, on 14 December 2016 - 01:42 PM, said:

Just linked it, should be working now,


Edit-
Personally ive always thought of going half way on it,

1) Solution to Balance? make IS-XL like C-XL, no Death on ST loss,
2) but what about STD Engines? give them CT Structure Equal to 1/10 their Rating(ie 300STD = +30CT Structure)
3) but what about LFE Engines? give them CT Structure Equal to 1/20 their Rating(ie 300STD = +15CT Structure)

we know they can Mod Stats with Equipment because thats what Clan TCs do,

As someone that plays IS side more than Clan I'd be perfectly happy if they just added LFEs, as I've been urging them to do for quite some time now. I can't imagine there's much work involved in it, just add some UI for it and some data entry. There should be some disparity between Clan tech and IS tech.

[Johnny Z]

PhoenixFire55, on 15 December 2016 - 12:25 AM, said:

I've played quite a few of those games and quite frankly ... nothing in them is able to hurt a jedi, except other jedi and sith. So, thanks for proving my point.

No, thank you for proving my point.

[Sjorpha]

RestosIII, on 14 December 2016 - 01:40 PM, said:

Yes. I honestly believe that ATM, IS XL shouldn't be an instant death from a ST loss. Just make it have a larger penalty that Clan XL in regards to movement penalties.

I've seen this suggestion several times, i just don't understand why the penalty should be larger for IS?

If anything the penalty should be smaller to compensate for the extra critspace.

We need to get rid of the stupid idea that clan tech has to be strictly better.

Mech the dane is spot on as usual, except i actually want balanced tech and distinct faction rather than giving up and letting both sides use all mechs.

Edited by Sjorpha, 15 December 2016 - 07:07 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

Sjorpha, on 15 December 2016 - 06:48 AM, said:

I've seen this suggestion several times, i just don't understand why the penalty should be larger for IS?

If anything the penalty should be smaller to compensate for the extra critspace.

We need to get rid of the stupid idea that clan tech has to be strictly better.

We need to sell it PGI.
And follwoing PGIs logic - to increase the penalty because its bigger is perfectly fine.
Otherwise why have the SRM2 less spread and a higher RoF than other SRM launchers?

Or why does the small laser reload faster and has a shorter beam duration over the medium and the medium over the large and the large over the ER-Large?
Does make sense on the first glance, but only on the first.

[Van Hoven]

Having endo/ferro ocupy half the space, meaning that you can have both on nearly everything (laser boats usually have only 1 to have more space for dhs) and clan xL is a HUGE benefitt for clans that in my eyes goes a long way for clan vs IS balance. Giving the IS equipment some buffs is a good idea in my opinion. +10% armor and internals as proposed isn't a huge deal, but it's something. After fixing the mechlab mech building balance you can go from there to a proper weapon balance.

[Tom Sawyer]

http://www.sarna.net...ion_Engine_-_XL

Just advance the time line already. PGI could sell more mechpacks, we could get new engines, weapons, equipment.

Oh wait that requires work. Ok make everything equal.

[Vanguard319]

Metus regem, on 14 December 2016 - 01:49 PM, said:

As much as I like keeping things close to the TT, with out the mitigation of random hit location, IS XL engines are over penalized in the environment we have currently with pin-point perfect convergence weapon systems, this is just happens to be one of those things that does not translate well from TT to the current FPS environment we have to work with in.

I would say it's not so much the XL that is the problem, but the pin-point convergence that needs to go. MechWarrior is supposed to be a sim, not a twitchy CoD fps.

[Johnny Z]

Tom Sawyer, on 15 December 2016 - 06:58 AM, said:

http://www.sarna.net...ion_Engine_-_XL

Just advance the time line already. PGI could sell more mechpacks, we could get new engines, weapons, equipment.

Oh wait that requires work. Ok make everything equal.

Because making content already in the game obsolete throws good work already done in the trash instead of having it part of the mech catalog. And it sucks.

[Jackal Noble]

people are just afraid of dying. too funny.

[Karl Streiger]

JackalBeast, on 15 December 2016 - 07:23 AM, said:

people are just afraid of dying. too funny.

...in a computer game

problem is not to die - problem is that the other guy had to die first

Edited by Karl Streiger, 15 December 2016 - 07:25 AM.

[Andi Nagasia]

Johnny Z, on 15 December 2016 - 07:18 AM, said:

Because making content already in the game obsolete throws good work already done in the trash instead of having it part of the mech catalog. And it sucks.

its a problem with how power creap works,
the solution is to make STD Engines, and SHSs viable Choices,
much like Clan TCs allow these Items to add Quirks to mechs,

as ive said before give STD Engines CT Structure Buffs,
and for SHSs a higher Heat Capacity, make them useful,

[Graugger]

IS XL engines should have the same crit chance and effect of the gauss rifle.

[ArchSight]

A change to how all XL engines kill the mech would be interesting. IS XL's death to side torso destruction lowers the time to kill.

Could change both IS and Clan XL engines to die the same way but slower depending on what weapons are used.

How about after a side torso internal structure is destroyed it unlocks the ability to transfer critical damage received on the side torso XL engines slots too the center internal structure. It would bypass armor like a ammo explosion not protected by CASE but has a chance to be done multiple times from opposing weapons fire. CASE shouldn't protect the XL engines do to how big they are.

High critical chance weapons like machine guns, LBX's and some weapons that get increased critical chance from clan targeting computers would be capable of doing the critical damage. A difference of a high critical chance weapon and a low critical chance weapon would affect what players bring to kill a XL engine or non-XL engine mech resulting in more depth from increase use of different tech.

There can also be a difference in the amount of critical damage is transferred between the IS XL engine and Clan XL engine. The Clan XL engine does have less slots to hit so maybe the IS XL engine only transfers 90% of the critical damage too the center internal structure instead of 100%. The value of the amount of damage transferred could be tuned to be lower for both XL engines to make it slower to kill them or faster.

The idea does fit clan doing more damage and IS taking longer to kill.