60 replies to this topic

[AlphaToaster]

240 ton limit is going to make me think about what to bring.

@ 265, for IS I'd consider 2 Orion's for pushing/brawling on the first 2 waves. (AC/SRMs like a mini atlas but faster). That leaves another 115 tons, I'd probably go either a 3rd Heavy like a WHM/Black Widow, and then a GRF 2N.

I think IS does better vs clans once in brawl range so I would focus on that.

[Count Zero 74]

Quite

AlphaToaster, on 16 December 2016 - 11:05 AM, said:

I think IS does better vs clans once in brawl range so I would focus on that.

And exactly this is now totally wrong. Did noone read the November patch notes? With the Clan LPL range cap, IS mechs with 15% duration quirks which mean a lot less face time and the ability to fire 3 LPL without penalty IS players with a functioning brain don't brawl. Now you beat the Clanners in their own game, you outtrade them.

Here's a Boreal deck and another one for everything else:



You bring Pulse Lasers, Medium or Large, nothing else. If you don't like Pulse Laser either go back to quick play or stop complaining about OP Clan Mechs.

Edited by Count Zero 74, 16 December 2016 - 11:30 AM.

[Vxheous]

Count Zero 74, on 16 December 2016 - 11:28 AM, said:

Quite

And exactly this is now totally wrong. Did noone read the November patch notes? With the Clan LPL range cap, IS mechs with 15% duration quirks which mean a lot less face time and the ability to fire 3 LPL without penalty IS players with a functioning brain don't brawl. Now you beat the Clanners in their own game, you outtrade them.

Here's a Boreal deck and another one for everything else:



You bring Pulse Lasers, Medium or Large, nothing else. If you don't like Pulse Laser either go back to quick play or stop complaining about OP Clan Mechs.

Quick question Count: You run your Warhanmer D in a 3/2 config (I assume 3LPL/2ML) while most other run 3LPL/4ML (I personally run mine 3/3). Do you notice much of a difference when you drop to 3/2 and get pushed or does it allow you to utilize the 3LPL more often so that dps over time works out better?

[Kmieciu]

Count Zero 74, on 16 December 2016 - 11:28 AM, said:

You bring Pulse Lasers, Medium or Large, nothing else. If you don't like Pulse Laser either go back to quick play or stop complaining about OP Clan Mechs.

That's exactly the thing! When playing IS you have to use specific weapons on specific mechs just to be able to compete.
If you want 500 meters of range you need 15 tonns for 3xLL. That's 27 damage alpha.
Meanwhile a Clan mech spends 6 tonnes for 6xERML and a TC1 that gets him 462 meters and 42 damage alpha.
Nowadays even a 30-ton Kit Fox has the means to do it. And also boat 16 DHS, which is more than an average IS heavy.

[Jack Booted Thug]

Vxheous Kerensky, on 16 December 2016 - 12:41 PM, said:

Quick question Count: You run your Warhanmer D in a 3/2 config (I assume 3LPL/2ML) while most other run 3LPL/4ML (I personally run mine 3/3). Do you notice much of a difference when you drop to 3/2 and get pushed or does it allow you to utilize the 3LPL more often so that dps over time works out better?

Heat efficiency, heat efficiency, sustained push, sustained push, not poke once or twice and hide, go go go go till all 12 are dead. 3LP 2medium laser is the answer

[Vxheous]

Jack Booted Thug, on 16 December 2016 - 01:02 PM, said:

Heat efficiency, heat efficiency, sustained push, sustained push, not poke once or twice and hide, go go go go till all 12 are dead. 3LP 2medium laser is the answer

Gonna try this tonight when I get a chance

[Lily from animove]

Count Zero 74, on 16 December 2016 - 11:28 AM, said:

Quite

And exactly this is now totally wrong. Did noone read the November patch notes? With the Clan LPL range cap, IS mechs with 15% duration quirks which mean a lot less face time and the ability to fire 3 LPL without penalty IS players with a functioning brain don't brawl. Now you beat the Clanners in their own game, you outtrade them.

Here's a Boreal deck and another one for everything else:



You bring Pulse Lasers, Medium or Large, nothing else. If you don't like Pulse Laser either go back to quick play or stop complaining about OP Clan Mechs.

and this kills CW more than everything, when the opponent composition is a boring composition of 4x12 the same mech.

Jack Booted Thug, on 16 December 2016 - 01:02 PM, said:

Heat efficiency, heat efficiency, sustained push, sustained push, not poke once or twice and hide, go go go go till all 12 are dead. 3LP 2medium laser is the answer

thats it, because clan lasers are inefficient in heat and you soon end up at heatcap while the others keep firing

that always worked well, but many never got that.

Edited by Lily from animove, 02 January 2017 - 07:03 AM.

[LordNothing]

Count Zero 74, on 15 December 2016 - 09:51 PM, said:

The IS puggies I've seen today couldn't win even with 500 tons

you know i played 4 fp games today and only lost one. its a stark contrast from a couple days ago.

[Monkey Lover]

Lily from animove, on 16 December 2016 - 01:42 PM, said:

.




thats it, because clan lasers are inefficient in heat and you soon end up at heatcap while the others keep firing

that always worked well, but many never got that.

Ha-ha one of the biggest myths there are.

Keeping the ranges as close as I can.

Clan lpl has same dph as IS larger laser.
Clan mpl has about the same heat as a IS medium laser.
Both er large are about the same too.

Big one right now. Clan ppc has less dph because of the basically free splash dmg.

In the end IS has maybe a 10 percent heat quirk. But if you fill your clan up with 2 slot dhs then you're still cooler.

Not counting even clans now have heat quirks too. Summoner ppc quirks for example.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 16 December 2016 - 02:58 PM.

[DANKnuggz]

The IS problem has to do with their players... NOT their mechs...

Clan teams win more often because of tactics, mech load-out, and drop deck composition... Clan players tend to be the more dedicated players (not always but usually), their mechs are more expensive to buy and outfit which requires players to put more time in to aquire their desired drop deck composition... More time spent = more experienced, so clan pug teams tend to have a larger pool of experience to draw upon in more difficult situations... and when it comes to war, untrained pugs are SUPPOSED to lose most of the time...

IS teams I've played against that we easily beat nearly always fail to push as a group or fail to defend in the correct places (both problems caused by inexperience). They stand and trade with clan mechs FAR more suited to trade than their IS mechs are... IS teams that bring brawlers and push/defend as a group are far more difficult to deal with. Organized and intelligent IS teams do just fine and are in fact VERY deadly. IS mechs being so comparatively cheap actually works against the IS CW population. Cheap mechs that require less game time to acquire and outfit means less dedicated/experienced players will tend to pilot them. There is no way around that aspect.

If CW "balance" is going to focus mainly on idiot pugs who are unwilling or unable to work as a team then CW as a game type may as well be abandoned as a whole. Open warfare is SUPPOSED to be unbalanced... TACTICS trump mech design nearly EVERY time. I know my clan mechs aren't nearly as good in a brawl as their IS counterparts so I avoid brawling whenever possible and pug IS teams tend to oblige me by staying back and trying to poke at me. Giving one side such a large tonnage advantage to compensate for poor mech design and even poorer tactics is just plain stupid. Yet another attempt at "balance" that does nothing but reward noob pugs and make experienced players desire to find greener pastures.

Edited by DANKnuggz, 16 December 2016 - 03:27 PM.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

LordNothing, on 16 December 2016 - 02:11 PM, said:

you know i played 4 fp games today and only lost one. its a stark contrast from a couple days ago.

Probably a lot of players moving out of FW and into quickplay for the Marauder IIC leaderboards in combination with the tonnage changes.

[Gas Guzzler]

Count Zero 74, on 16 December 2016 - 01:41 AM, said:

Here's what 3 5SS can do skittles vs skittles:



any questions?

p.s.: want an example what 4 5SS can do?

Wow a screen shot with 2200 damage out of three mechs.

Clan mech rebuttal that is clearly irrefutable:

[RaptorCWS]

Gas Guzzler, on 16 December 2016 - 03:59 PM, said:

Wow a screen shot with 2200 damage out of three mechs.

Clan mech rebuttal that is clearly irrefutable:

judging by the damage done to your executioner no one on the other team could pick a spot to hit and stick with it.

[Gas Guzzler]

RaptorCWS, on 16 December 2016 - 04:07 PM, said:

judging by the damage done to your executioner no one on the other team could pick a spot to hit and stick with it.

That's how your mech should always look through spreading damage. If you have yellow armor everywhere and you are getting CT cored, you need to spread damage better and do less facetanking.

[Count Zero 74]

Vxheous Kerensky, on 16 December 2016 - 12:41 PM, said:

Quick question Count: You run your Warhanmer D in a 3/2 config (I assume 3LPL/2ML) while most other run 3LPL/4ML (I personally run mine 3/3). Do you notice much of a difference when you drop to 3/2 and get pushed or does it allow you to utilize the 3LPL more often so that dps over time works out better?

Actually I have a lot of different 6Ds. Yeah 3-2 means 3 LPL - 2 MPL. Basic Hammer would be 3-4 though, 3 LPL - 4 Standard Med. I also have one high alpha one in a 3-6 loadout and a special one for the trading play against the 2-4 Ebons, that one has 5 Standard Large Lasers.

All with XL325 of course, general rule for IS FP: Go 80 or go home (only Battlemaster is allowed to go 75)

Edited by Count Zero 74, 16 December 2016 - 05:31 PM.

[Count Zero 74]

Gas Guzzler, on 16 December 2016 - 03:59 PM, said:

Wow a screen shot with 2200 damage out of three mechs.

Clan mech rebuttal that is clearly irrefutable:

Cause I share the armour of ALL my mechs with my TEAM. You to scared to scratch the paintjob on your other precious mechs?

[Count Zero 74]

Kmieciu, on 16 December 2016 - 12:41 PM, said:

That's exactly the thing! When playing IS you have to use specific weapons on specific mechs just to be able to compete.
If you want 500 meters of range you need 15 tonns for 3xLL. That's 27 damage alpha.
Meanwhile a Clan mech spends 6 tonnes for 6xERML and a TC1 that gets him 462 meters and 42 damage alpha.
Nowadays even a 30-ton Kit Fox has the means to do it. And also boat 16 DHS, which is more than an average IS heavy.

But the Clan med laser has a max range of 600-something right? You know about max ranges right? Cause my Large Laser has a max range of 1000m. now Imagine a 2LPL, 4Med Ebon at 700m trading against my Warhammer 6D. He can only use his 2 LPL which have a burn time of 1.21 seconds. I counter that with 5 Large which have a burntime of 0.85 seconds on the variant with a 15% duration quirk. Do the math.

[Gas Guzzler]

Count Zero 74, on 16 December 2016 - 05:35 PM, said:

Cause I share the armour of ALL my mechs with my TEAM. You to scared to scratch the paintjob on your other precious mechs?

Lol that's your defense? And I'm sorry, my mech is a little bit more than scratched. Besides, I did a large percentage of the work, sorry I'm smart enough to not get ganked if I don't have to.

[MischiefSC]

Gas Guzzler, on 16 December 2016 - 07:28 PM, said:

Lol that's your defense? And I'm sorry, my mech is a little bit more than scratched. Besides, I did a large percentage of the work, sorry I'm smart enough to not get ganked if I don't have to.

Your 4k damage didn't carry hard enough apparently. You should learn to GIT GUD.

[Commander A9]

Teams are still beating pugs.

Trust us...it's not the tonnage that's the issue at hand. That's only an artificial band-aid/handicap meant to fix...whatever issue PGI THINKS is the problem.

Writing's on the wall, people.