50 replies to this topic

[l33tworks]

I have always hated them. They are nothing but frustrating and poorly implemented road blocks that serve to do nothing but annoy you and take your time and heat whilst robbing you of current and possible future enjoyment and add nothing to gameplay. I do not believe they belong in this incarnation of Mechwarrioir being the type of team based PVP game, ESPECIALLY when they are present on both teams such as Escort mode so any balancing usefulness for them is nulled out.

The fact that they have perfect accuracy is just the most infuriating. Escort mode is ruined because of it IMO. As a light running around the map they just perfectly drill you no matter how you are moving. Its incredibly a terrible aspect of MWO and IMO they should be removed or at least made into LB10xs. the Medium laser left testicle precision drill is just uaghrgrhgrhgr!

[Elessar]

Everything has 2 sides ... the defending team in escort surely likes that enemy scouts don't have such an easy time running around and discovering the Atlas

[RestosIII]

I just think they need to be given the actual ability to miss. Do that, and they'll be fine. That, or turn them into SRM/LRM turrets with AoE firing indicators, like another forumwarrior suggested in an earlier thread.

[vettie]

The question is
"
Who Actually Enjoys Turrets Of Any Kind Being In The Game?"


i do.

[Appogee]

I'd rather drop with turrets than potatoes.

Both have about the same mobility.

But at least the turrets can aim

[El Bandito]

I prefer SRM and LRM turrets, instead of aimbot laser AI always focusing on the CT. Light mechs need some love.

Edited by El Bandito, 21 December 2016 - 06:39 AM.

[Variant1]

Turrets are the most fun thing not only that it introduced an element of pve. I remember back in the good old days when assault had turrets it was an actually good game instead of cap rushing. The turrets not only made the bases actually feel like bases (instead of cap points lights would rush) but it also gave a losing team a chance to retreat and use them to fight on equal footing. It also made me feel like after losing on the front line our commander gives us the retreat signal, we make it to the base preparing to make our last stand.

[Dale Grible]

I love turrets. I love anything that provides immersion and is destructable. Bring on turrets, helicopters CAS (close air support), aerotech CAS, tanks, apcs. Then give me a base where all this crap is that i hafta defend or attack. Use AOE or aimbot with turrets IDC.

How bout a mech hanger to depart out of....eh comrades?! (For the NSA thats a austin powers ref)

[Bud Crue]

Enjoy them?

Don't know about "enjoy" but I liked em back in the day of the old assault mode. Made it a lot harder to try and cap the base. But I also get why they got rid of em (to encourage capping as a tactic since Assault is supposed to be different that Skirmish).

I hate em in CW invasion. The gate turrets are just useless and the turrets by the gun are a distraction and an additional crutch for the defenders that often already have the benefit on most maps. They exist only to encourage me to spend c-bills on arty strikes.

They have been a total non factor in my escort matches. Haven't been much more than scratched by one. Someone almost always takes them out at range before they really have a chance to do any substantive damage. So meh.

[l33tworks]

Variant1, on 21 December 2016 - 06:28 AM, said:

Turrets are the most fun thing not only that it introduced an element of pve. I remember back in the good old days when assault had turrets it was an actually good game instead of cap rushing. The turrets not only made the bases actually feel like bases (instead of cap points lights would rush) but it also gave a losing team a chance to retreat and use them to fight on equal footing. It also made me feel like after losing on the front line our commander gives us the retreat signal, we make it to the base preparing to make our last stand.

They were LRMS afaik. I can deal with those but not insta shot weapons. And even they were removed due to complaints. I cant fathom how people put up with the medium laser ones. Im prett

Variant1, on 21 December 2016 - 06:28 AM, said:

Turrets are the most fun thing not only that it introduced an element of pve. I remember back in the good old days when assault had turrets it was an actually good game instead of cap rushing. The turrets not only made the bases actually feel like bases (instead of cap points lights would rush) but it also gave a losing team a chance to retreat and use them to fight on equal footing. It also made me feel like after losing on the front line our commander gives us the retreat signal, we make it to the base preparing to make our last stand.

They were LRMS afaik. I can deal with those but not insta shot weapons. And even they were removed due to complaints. I cant fathom how people put up with the medium laser ones. Im prett

[The Unstoppable Puggernaut]

I strongly disagree with ya OP.

Turrets in the game were an absolutely brilliant idea...
Except PGI got it wrong from start to finish through and through.

In assault, it WAS the base you were assaulting, this is the only good implementation I saw but wasn't enough. It has LRM5 turrets that insta-locked and lasers that seemed to aim for the legs (yes and never missed). So you want to assault a base, well ... be prepared. It's supposed to be a freaking BASE. Cap should have been removed and a control tower with health bar in place (like Omega cannon). Anyways with a few turrets, it wasn't hard to roll it over but it did make you think twice about trying to capture the enemy base in Assault vs finishing the enemy off. I found this was the best dynamic in all the game modes and used to always get my vote.

Now look at Turrets in Faction Warfare. Yes lets put them in a great place outside where they just die... These are useless. Then the ones on the inside are tough and make pushing a base more difficult and stressful but I get why they are there, just maybe reduce the HP.

Escort mode. Now they are made of paper. Not sure how but why weren't they tough as before but at least allow people to control them by capping points.

Personally I love something asides mechs that pose a threat but only used where needed and with the right amount of health.

[Almond Brown]

Variant1, on 21 December 2016 - 06:28 AM, said:

Turrets are the most fun thing not only that it introduced an element of pve. I remember back in the good old days when assault had turrets it was an actually good game instead of cap rushing. The turrets not only made the bases actually feel like bases (instead of cap points lights would rush) but it also gave a losing team a chance to retreat and use them to fight on equal footing. It also made me feel like after losing on the front line our commander gives us the retreat signal, we make it to the base preparing to make our last stand.

And then Whine got so Salty no one could drink it anymore and PGI had to take them out. It is why we can't have nice things in MWO.

[nehebkau]

They are more annoying than dangerous UNLESS you are in a light then the 'Never miss' aspect of them sucks.... Honestly if a turret can have an auto aim never miss targeting computer then why not put it on mechs?

Just as bad is the stupid dropship in scouting. I was in a match last night where the dropship killed our entire drop while we were trying to take out the last (very small and fast) defender -- it was so much fun -- NOT!

The worst part is that there is no balance to their implementation. So you have turrets guarding your land for your escort... well, obviously the attacking mechs on escort are about to win the planet (why are the VIPs running away?) So where are the overflights by the attacker's airforce randomly shooting at the retreating mechs? Likewise in Scouting, so you have a dropship with big lasers protecting the retreating forces -- were is the counter-balancing turrets at every data node protecting it for the defenders?

PGI's persistent problem is they never consider balance when they make ANY changes to the game except as an afterthought while they are taking a restroom-break.

In the previous assasult mode They were fine, we had balance since both sides had them -- although the LRM turrets having 800M BAP sucked.

Edited by nehebkau, 21 December 2016 - 07:33 AM.

[Trollfeed]

SRM or LRM turrets would be way better, easy to dodge if you pay attention but they're capable of bringing you pain if ignored. Never missing laser turrets are poison to light mechs and I don't think we want to make playing light mechs any harder than it already is.

[Johnny Z]

PVE in game is excellent. Looking forward to tanks and gunships to. Maybe mines or what ever. Large dropships and more destructible walls? Cant wait.

[Tristan Winter]

Yeah, I would also prefer SRM turrets. It should be possible for fast mechs to evade fire from them.

As for the argument that turrets prevent light mechs from discovering the VIP instantly: we finally have a game mode where scouting is useful and you want to nerf scouting? C'mon, son!

I actually think the purpose of turrets is to make the game mode more complex than "Let's hold this spot and wait for the VIP to come through". The idea, I think, is that you want fast mechs trying to capture the flags in order to get that radar, ECM and turret support going. This gives people something to do, besides deathballing.

[adamts01]

Bud Crue, on 21 December 2016 - 06:36 AM, said:

They have been a total non factor in my escort matches. Haven't been much more than scratched by one. Someone almost always takes them out at range before they really have a chance to do any substantive damage. So meh.

That's because you don't play lights, like no one really plays lights anymore. I went out to scout for the VIP in my SPL Locust, like a good Locust is supposed to do, and got gimped well before I could get eyes on anything. They need to be gone from Escort. I do wish they had some decent turrets on Assault though. Even these would be great. Any light could take them out, but it would pay for it. Of course not the turrets that hit the center of Mining though. What the hell was PGI thinking?

[Mawai]

RestosIII, on 21 December 2016 - 06:15 AM, said:

I just think they need to be given the actual ability to miss. Do that, and they'll be fine. That, or turn them into SRM/LRM turrets with AoE firing indicators, like another forumwarrior suggested in an earlier thread.

I agree. Turrets should be coded with an aiming cone in all cases. They target the center of mass of the mech and the actual aim point is determined by choosing two random numbers ... one for angle around the cone and the second for the angle from the center line of the cone ... that defines the aiming point for the weapon and determines whether it hits or misses.

This system is more accurate the closer you are to the weapon and by controlling the cone width you define the effective range of the weapon. The angle from the center line could be linear or some other function depending on how clustered you want the aim point to be. This also prevents the automated defence from automatically targeting the most damaged component or other behviours. The point of automated defences is to discourage and slow down opponents and not to be a deciding factor in every fight.

[Johnny Z]

adamts01, on 21 December 2016 - 08:23 AM, said:

That's because you don't play lights, like no one really plays lights anymore. I went out to scout for the VIP in my SPL Locust, like a good Locust is supposed to do, and got gimped well before I could get eyes on anything. They need to be gone from Escort. I do wish they had some decent turrets on Assault though. Even these would be great. Any light could take them out, but it would pay for it. Of course not the turrets that hit the center of Mining though. What the hell was PGI thinking?

I got no problem playing lights personally. The only drawback is that its the only class to play really if a player wants to even out the queue and would be nice to play heavies now and then also.

Even then its no problem to play heavies when ever I want.

I would say the biggest thing ruining playing lights is the Arctic Cheetah. Who wants to play a light when some joker in an Arctic Cheater will pull up and end the match. Cant outrun them like other stronger mechs etc.

Balance the Arctic "Cheater" and give it some time and lights may be more popular. Yes I think cheats ruin lights gameplay more than the other weight classes also.

Edited by Johnny Z, 21 December 2016 - 08:43 AM.

[TLBFestus]

l33tworks, on 21 December 2016 - 06:09 AM, said:

I have always hated them. They are nothing but frustrating and poorly implemented road blocks that serve to do nothing but annoy you and take your time and heat whilst robbing you of current and possible future enjoyment and add nothing to gameplay. I do not believe they belong in this incarnation of Mechwarrioir being the type of team based PVP game, ESPECIALLY when they are present on both teams such as Escort mode so any balancing usefulness for them is nulled out.

The fact that they have perfect accuracy is just the most infuriating. Escort mode is ruined because of it IMO. As a light running around the map they just perfectly drill you no matter how you are moving. Its incredibly a terrible aspect of MWO and IMO they should be removed or at least made into LB10xs. the Medium laser left testicle precision drill is just uaghrgrhgrhgr!

It's vitally important that there are turrets in ESCORT mode otherwise both sides would have to run around actually looking, I think in some circles it's called "scouting", for each other. It was once a pillar of the game but now it's more the useless appendage, "the appendix", of the game.

Yeah, I mostly agree with what you are saying, especially with regards to the perfect accuracy issue. It's one thing I will be watching in the game as it's patched since if we notice a change in the AI behavior of the turrets, or not, it will (hopefully) be an indication of what's going to happen with the SP MW5 game they are working on.

Edited by TLBFestus, 21 December 2016 - 09:51 AM.