23 replies to this topic

[Snazzy Dragon]

Since respecs will cost MC to keep progress and I'm sure no one wants to have multiple copies of the same hero mech, do you think the skill tree respec for hero mechs should be free once it releases?

[FupDup]

I wouldn't mind free respecs for everyone since then you could more freely change between weapon and skill loadouts.

PGI is unlikely to do it since it will be a money sink. The Paulconomy must live on.

[MauttyKoray]

I would actually be okay with Hero mechs getting the MC equivalent of respec (keep points when respeccing) for a higher CBill cost than the standard mechs.

However, owning several Hero mechs myself (mostly package purchases) I would not be against them using the same CBill/MC method as every other mech.

Just find a way you prefer to play that chassis if you don't want to respec all the time. Jeez, I have several chassis I regularly play that I haven't touched their build in almost a year.

[Davegt27]

seems pay to win to me

[Tristan Winter]

I think respecs should cost a small amount of GXP. Then players can do it for free if they get enough GXP and PGI can earn more on MC sales as people pay to convert XP to GXP.

I'll be very reluctant to invest in a PPC skill, for example, and then see PGI nerf PPCs to oblivion and make them terrible weapons for the next 18 months. Oh, and then I have to pay MC to compensate for the damage they've done?

F*ck. That.

[cazidin]

FupDup, on 17 December 2016 - 03:21 PM, said:

I wouldn't mind free respecs for everyone since then you could more freely change between weapon and skill loadouts.

PGI is unlikely to do it since it will be a money sink. The Paulconomy must live on.

Actually, PGI has a new apprentice for the Balance Overlord. We must learn his name and blame him, in part, for everything that goes wrong with this game too!

[Snazzy Dragon]

cazidin, on 17 December 2016 - 06:42 PM, said:

Actually, PGI has a new apprentice for the Balance Overlord. We must learn his name and blame him, in part, for everything that goes wrong with this game too!

"And here is my pride and joy, my Dartboard of Balance. You see, when I throw a dart, it selects something like 'nerf machine guns' or 'add another OP clan mech to the game.' I've spent years perfecting it."

"Shouldn't the dartboard be spinning when you throw the dart?"

"...YOU ARE HIRED!"

[badaa]

if it is going to cost money to repec i wont be playing mwo any more. ive been though this with others games and quit those as well, except marvel heros who had pay to respec and got rid of it .

[Ace Selin]

Hero mechs should definitely get free respecs.


This whole thing actually seems like bull and will be time i leave the game i think if it gets more grindy than it is, which is what its looking like.

[Zolaz]

There is a difference between Pay to Win and Pay for Convenience.

[Nyte Wolf]

pay for convenience is not what i would call it. more like pay the mc ransom, or lose your skill points.
at least thats the way i currently see the new skill tree respec. Am i wrong?

Edited by Nyte Wolf, 17 December 2016 - 09:07 PM.

[BumbleBee]

Tristan Winter, on 17 December 2016 - 06:00 PM, said:

I think respecs should cost a small amount of GXP. Then players can do it for free if they get enough GXP and PGI can earn more on MC sales as people pay to convert XP to GXP.

I'll be very reluctant to invest in a PPC skill, for example, and then see PGI nerf PPCs to oblivion and make them terrible weapons for the next 18 months. Oh, and then I have to pay MC to compensate for the damage they've done?

F*ck. That.

Russ has already said that you can respec the nodes for C-Bills, losing only the nodes that you do not want. Unlocking nodes costs XP + some C-Bills (?), and it looks to be ~1000XP per node, ~75000XP get you ~75 nodes, currently its ~61000XP to master a Mech.

You can spend MC to keep the respeced XP. If you choose not to, you can easily get ~600-700XP in an average match, so ~3 matches to unlock 2 nodes.

[Juodas Varnas]

I'd rather not have skill-trees/experience grind in the first place.

I'm just not a fan of magically increasing mech's stats, all it does is add a layer of annoying grind and widens the gap between new and older players.

[D V Devnull]

I've heard the rumors, read the pages, and watched the videos. If PGI dares to make 'Non-Destructive Respecs' cost anything more than (C-BIlls), than that will end my days on MWO for sure. It would be just as bad as a Medieval Fantasy MMO totally changing the combat system, and trashing my entire old outfit. (Tip: That's actually happened to me. I left the Medieval Fantasy MMO immediately after that. I have no tolerance for disrespect of a game's Community.)

I can even tell PGI how much extra payment for a 'Non-Destructive Respec'... 5 Million (5,000,000) would be just about right. But charging (MC)? That's clearly 'Pay-to-Win' crap going on right there. Such has already been said is NEVER supposed to happen to MWO, particularly if they really want to be called 'Free-to-Play' and honestly be worthy of that status marking. But I guess someone has got their eyes glazed over too much with cold and ugly $$$, and they have decided that grabbing it from people is worth more than a Community-growing, positive Public Reputation for the MWO game.


Oh, and this...

BumbleBee, on 18 December 2016 - 12:57 AM, said:

You can spend MC to keep the respeced XP.

Well, aren't you just out to decide how people spend their Real Time and Real $$$ Money! Not everyone has those luxuries, and how dare you, going around trying to tell people how they'll use it! You have no right, so shut it before someone more awake than myself comes along and rips you completely to hell.

Even further...

BumbleBee, on 18 December 2016 - 12:57 AM, said:

If you choose not to, you can easily get ~600-700XP in an average match, so ~3 matches to unlock 2 nodes.

...how dare you even more, trying to tell people that XP will just roll into their lap! When was the last damned time that you worked on the Basic Efficiencies for a 'Mech? I've had to suffer through stacks of 60+ Matches just to get the 13.5K XP for only getting the mere Basic Efficiencies, which is more like an average of only ~200-250XP per Match! It usually takes a lot longer, though. Why? Most of the time, the MatchMaker is going to pit you against people with even stronger 'Mechs. That means you get cut down a lot, before you can ever get what you need to be equal with your opponents on the battlefield. So, no, unlocking Nodes on that new, miserable Skill Tree system is NEVER going to be any kind of an easy snap!

This whole new Skill Tree mess is going to cause unusual-but-highly-warranted rage. Why, you might ask? Because once someone has unlocked something, having to grind even more to unlock stuff and lose old things that they've achieved is going to make them start to hate MWO, and quickly. PGI did NOT think things through when they got into the idea of causing people to throw out time and effort that they already spent to achieve anything! We've already worked and lost time for achieving it, and we most certainly should NEVER have to work for it again! Compound that times the number of additional 'Mechs which someone might hold, from multiples of each and every single variant that someone may hold, and the required effort and grind curve become far too great. Worse, even unto the point of making it impossible to ever feel like anything (again... time, effort, etc.) in this game was ever worth applying, as people are then left stripped of any feeling or thought like anything had actually been achieved beyond a massive waste of time. That's NEVER how a game, even MWO, should ultimately end up causing someone to feel. A game should be fun because something could be permanently achieved, and something permanently capable of being enjoyed. PGI has lost sight of this, apparently.


~Mr. D. V. "now feeling a deadly cold rage under their skin" Devnull

[Burning2nd]

relax... we dont technically know how this is going to work out..

one thing is for sure... Were about to be really really really rich..

[BumbleBee]

D V Devnull, on 18 December 2016 - 01:48 AM, said:

Well, aren't you just out to decide how people spend their Real Time and Real $$$ Money! Not everyone has those luxuries, and how dare you, going around trying to tell people how they'll use it! You have no right, so shut it before someone more awake than myself comes along and rips you completely to hell.

Even further...

...how dare you even more, trying to tell people that XP will just roll into their lap! When was the last damned time that you worked on the Basic Efficiencies for a 'Mech? I've had to suffer through stacks of 60+ Matches just to get the 13.5K XP for only getting the mere Basic Efficiencies, which is more like an average of only ~200-250XP per Match! It usually takes a lot longer, though. Why? Most of the time, the MatchMaker is going to pit you against people with even stronger 'Mechs. That means you get cut down a lot, before you can ever get what you need to be equal with your opponents on the battlefield. So, no, unlocking Nodes on that new, miserable Skill Tree system is NEVER going to be any kind of an easy snap!

Quote

When was the last damned time that you worked on the Basic Efficiencies for a 'Mech?

Monday

I had no trouble just playing the game for fun and I did just fine. Im a person who plays the game because I enjoy it. I had no problems getting ~600XP on an average game, some were worse, even had a few better.

Quote

You have no right, so shut it before someone more awake than myself comes along and rips you completely to hell

About this little gem. You really need to chill out, so shut it before someone less calm and forgiving than myself comes along and rips you completely to hell

Edited by BumbleBee, 18 December 2016 - 02:06 AM.

[Aetes Nakatomi]

I'm getting tired of morons claiming 'Pay 2 Win' over respec costs.

Pay to win means you buy a thing and it gives you a direct advantage that a free to player player cannot ever have. This is pay to avoid grind, nothing more, nothing less.

[D V Devnull]

BumbleBee, on 18 December 2016 - 02:00 AM, said:

I had no trouble just playing the game for fun and I did just fine. Im a person who plays the game because I enjoy it. I had no problems getting ~600XP on an average game, some were worse, even had a few better.

Random curiosity, then... What Tier are you? If you're Tier 1, then I'm getting the feeling that you've forgotten to look at it from the perspective of anyone below Tier 2. There really is a massive experience difference to watch out for, and I should know as I've had to claw my way up through Tier 3.

Aetes Nakatomi, on 18 December 2016 - 02:09 AM, said:

I'm getting tired of morons claiming 'Pay 2 Win' over respec costs.

Pay to win means you buy a thing and it gives you a direct advantage that a free to player player cannot ever have. This is pay to avoid grind, nothing more, nothing less.

In this case, that idea for a complete rewrite of the Skill Tree system is indeed "Pay to Win"... Otherwise, they wouldn't make someone pay a currency derived from Real $$$ () to skip all the time and effort required to rebuild AND NOT LOSE ANYTHING ALREADY BUILT UP. Such gives a direct advantage over other players because the person paying the was able to blatantly remove and ignore the steps that others had to take, continuing to build up without loss while others who didn't pay have permanently lost something they worked so hard for. That's an issue that the current Skill Tree system doesn't have, but PGI seems bent on fixing things that aren't broken, while ignoring things that are broken like the "Clan XL vs. IS XL" ongoing issue that's totally wrecking game balance. Maybe if they weren't introducing as a payable currency for adjusting Skill Boosts, people wouldn't be so upset. But as it stands, PGI is tripping over the limits of balance into wrecking the game worse by enabling people with oversize wallets.


~D. V. "shocked that anyone would support the New Skill Tree Idea with the awful flaws that it has" Devnull

[Y E O N N E]

Counterpoint:

Not allowing people to shortcut the system with MC means players who simply spend more time playing (and not necessarily playing well) will have an inherent advantage over those who don't have the time to grind matches. That's not a good thing, either.

[Aetes Nakatomi]

Sigh... direct advantage on the battlefield!

Bloody hell...

Pay to skip grind is how free to play makes money. Buy a Mech Pack, paid to skip the c-bill grind for those Battlemechs. Paid for Mech XP to be converted to GXP, paid to skip the grind on a new variant. Paid for an MC consumable, paid to skip the GXP grind to make the c-bill version as good. Paid MC to convert nodes in the skill tree, paid to skip the Mech XP grind on that mech.