77 replies to this topic

[Bradigus]

I was in FP matches against you twice. Both times it was majority pugs with one or two 2-man groups on the clan side. IS had a similar setup.

I remember blasting your warhammers side torsos as you crossed open terrain with my Night Gyr's PPCs from a high ground vantage point within 400 meters on Tourmaline Desert. I saw you cross across open terrain, alone, while getting first blasted by me and then by another guy I asked to come assist.

Both matches clans were well within the IS shooting range for UAC5/ AC5 builds, ERLLs and PPCs. Both matches in fact eventually devolved into an outright scattered out brawl. But how did we win? Because Clan side coordinated enemy movements and called targets. We kept track of where you guys were, either with UAVs, target spotting or just calling out where you were coming from.

In the meanwhile, I saw a lot of IS mechs with majority LRMs and no TAG or supplementary weapons, people walking towards the front solo across open terrain, no semblance of coordination or teamwork to be seen. Only at the very beginning did I see anything resembling a group effort from the IS side, and that crumbled when they realized me and two other mechs had flanked their trench and were taking potshots at their fat heads. What's more, the majority of the kills or at least KMDD I got were because I could quite literally take my time with shots while the IS pilots stood still staring directly at me trying to fire outside of their effective range.

Edited by Bradigus, 18 December 2016 - 02:39 PM.

[Chados]

I see nothing has changed. And they stayed away from FW in droves because IS v Clans is inherently unbalanced.

The only fix to this is (1) Lose the awful invasion maps with all the bottlenecks. Adding the QP maps is a step in the right direction. And (2) is advance the timeline to Operation Bulldog and give IS the light fusion engine, rotary ACs, and all the rest of the 3057 tech. Which they ain't going to do. Til there is true IS/Clan technical parity, this will just keep on happening.

[QuantumButler]

Freeman 52, on 18 December 2016 - 10:49 AM, said:

I have actually seen a lot of LRM from clanners on the QP maps of faction play. Used effectively because these are coordinated groups, I may add.

OP: Don't drop alone. Group-on-group is actually very balanced. I say this as a solo loyalist.

This is because clan lrms are light enough that they can bring real guns and then a lrm or two as secondary weapon systems, Inner Sphere lrms are too heavy to do this.

It's still not a good idea to bring any LRMs but clans can get away with it without gimping themselves entirely whereas IS cannot.

[I_AM_ZUUL]

QuantumButler, on 18 December 2016 - 03:24 PM, said:

This is because clan lrms are light enough that they can bring real guns and then a lrm or two as secondary weapon systems, Inner Sphere lrms are too heavy to do this.

It's still not a good idea to bring any LRMs but clans can get away with it without gimping themselves entirely whereas IS cannot.

except that if people would just bring some tag and the occasional NARC while using LRMs in their optimal range which is 600m or less... the IS LRMs can melt mechs, so the main problem with LRMs is that no real Light mechs exist in the game besides Kitfoxes and pure operator error on using the system. cause anyone who is trying to say that having Fire Support is bad has nothing of value to say... theres a reason that Fire Support has been a fundamental aspect of all armies since before written history, hell the English gained the position to conquer the world off of Fire Support alone at Agincourt.

Edited by I_AM_ZUUL, 18 December 2016 - 04:08 PM.

[Racerxintegra2k]

Bradigus, on 18 December 2016 - 02:38 PM, said:

I was in FP matches against you twice. Both times it was majority pugs with one or two 2-man groups on the clan side. IS had a similar setup.

I remember blasting your warhammers side torsos as you crossed open terrain with my Night Gyr's PPCs from a high ground vantage point within 400 meters on Tourmaline Desert. I saw you cross across open terrain, alone, while getting first blasted by me and then by another guy I asked to come assist.

Both matches clans were well within the IS shooting range for UAC5/ AC5 builds, ERLLs and PPCs. Both matches in fact eventually devolved into an outright scattered out brawl. But how did we win? Because Clan side coordinated enemy movements and called targets. We kept track of where you guys were, either with UAVs, target spotting or just calling out where you were coming from.

In the meanwhile, I saw a lot of IS mechs with majority LRMs and no TAG or supplementary weapons, people walking towards the front solo across open terrain, no semblance of coordination or teamwork to be seen. Only at the very beginning did I see anything resembling a group effort from the IS side, and that crumbled when they realized me and two other mechs had flanked their trench and were taking potshots at their fat heads. What's more, the majority of the kills or at least KMDD I got were because I could quite literally take my time with shots while the IS pilots stood still staring directly at me trying to fire outside of their effective range.

The only time a clan mech got within 400 meters of me was on the last wave after i had already said **ck it. What AC5 builds the ones that got double heat ....

[Johnny Z]

I_AM_ZUUL, on 18 December 2016 - 04:06 PM, said:

except that if people would just bring some tag and the occasional NARC while using LRMs in their optimal range which is 600m or less... the IS LRMs can melt mechs, so the main problem with LRMs is that no real Light mechs exist in the game besides Kitfoxes and pure operator error on using the system. cause anyone who is trying to say that having Fire Support is bad has nothing of value to say... theres a reason that Fire Support has been a fundamental aspect of all armies since before written history, hell the English gained the position to conquer the world off of Fire Support alone at Agincourt.

Not alone, but yep the long bow. Not to mention the English had valid claim to Normandy, so they didn't really change anything and were just defending what was theirs.

Edited by Johnny Z, 18 December 2016 - 04:20 PM.

[Novakaine]

Hell I used all the time in FW.
To good effect.
I will admit though they are situational in FW.

[I_AM_ZUUL]

Johnny Z, on 18 December 2016 - 04:15 PM, said:

Not alone, but yep the long bow. Not to mention the English had valid claim to Normandy, so they didn't really change anything and were just defending what was theirs.

hence the keyword being... Support, and Henry V had a claim on the French throne not just Normandy, the French just usually gave them Normandy to get them to relinquish that claim.

[QuantumButler]

I_AM_ZUUL, on 18 December 2016 - 04:06 PM, said:

except that if people would just bring some tag and the occasional NARC while using LRMs in their optimal range which is 600m or less... the IS LRMs can melt mechs, so the main problem with LRMs is that no real Light mechs exist in the game besides Kitfoxes and pure operator error on using the system. cause anyone who is trying to say that having Fire Support is bad has nothing of value to say... theres a reason that Fire Support has been a fundamental aspect of all armies since before written history, hell the English gained the position to conquer the world off of Fire Support alone at Agincourt.

This is why LRMs are trash weapons, other guns you don't need fancy upgrades or specialized equipment or spotters to use effectively, LRMs require this.

I guarantee you a team running coordinated lrms heavily would do at least two or three times better just running actual real guns and using the same level of coordination.

[RestosIII]

QuantumButler, on 18 December 2016 - 05:12 PM, said:

This is why LRMs are trash weapons, other guns you don't need fancy upgrades or specialized equipment or spotters to use effectively, LRMs require this.

I guarantee you a team running coordinated lrms heavily would do at least two or three times better just running actual real guns and using the same level of coordination.

Still want the MW4 style LRMs myself. Would make me use LRMs a lot more often.

[Snowbluff]

Tarogato, on 18 December 2016 - 11:54 AM, said:

Clan LPLs have usually a burn time of 1.12 seconds.
Innersphere usually has to dodge ghost heat, which adds at least 0.5 seconds to their 1.0 second duration.
Innersphere does get a range quirk yes, generally only 10%, but that just means IS is better than Clan only outside of cERML range, which is something like 700m. That means that inside 700m, clan alpha's actually hit harder, unless the Innersphere boats large pulse and medium laser, which has a very limited range and runs nearly as hot as clan laservomit.

But clans have the option of running gauss/PPC, which though slightly lower alpha damage, doesn't have a burn duration, and has superior range to everything else other then ER larges.

Hey is it just me or does it list the clan 35 PPFLD as 45? What a joke. :/

[Y E O N N E]

Night Gyr deals 45. 40 PPFLD, 5 splash. It's probably the best pure pop-tart in the game at the moment.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Racerxintegra2k, on 18 December 2016 - 06:54 AM, said:

When the new Faction play patch dropped i cheered ! Then we got stomped. The tonnage was increased by 15 and i cheered again. Then we got stomped. Clan tonnage was decreased and i said wtf. We got stomped even harder.

There is NO fun in being Out Ranged/Out Maneuvered/ Out Damage. I congratulate the clan players, tonnage was taken away and they just got smaller more agile mechs that carry more fire power than an Inner sphere heavy with better range. They stay at a distance that we cant touch and they pick us apart. You guys use your advantages very effectively. Unfortunately this will mean that the Inner Sphere population will stop playing because it simply feels like shooting fish in a barrel and we are the fish.

IS ERLL with Tier5 range modules
IS ERPPC with Tier 5 Range modules
IS GAUSS with Tier 5 Range modules.
IS PPC with Tier 5 Range Modules.
IS LRM's with Tier 5 Range Modules.


Congrats, you're now on equal footing.

[FupDup]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 18 December 2016 - 07:20 PM, said:

IS LRM's with Tier 5 Range Modules.

Lol.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

FupDup, on 18 December 2016 - 07:21 PM, said:

Lol.

Laugh all you want, used properly, LRM's are an Asset, to say otherwise shows an inherent lack of understanding of the weapons system and it's use.

[Tarogato]

Yeonne Greene, on 18 December 2016 - 07:07 PM, said:

Night Gyr deals 45. 40 PPFLD, 5 splash. It's probably the best pure pop-tart in the game at the moment.

No, I specifically listed gauss 2PPC, which is 35 pinpoint.

Snowbluff, on 18 December 2016 - 06:13 PM, said:

Hey is it just me or does it list the clan 35 PPFLD as 45? What a joke. :/

Correct, but that extra spash damage is part of the reason why cERPPC is the meta right now, and even the most quirked Innersphere ERPPCs aren't used at all right now in high level competitive play.

Plus, can you really pretend that laservomit doesn't have "splash" damage? Even the best player in the game can't always consistently pinpoint a single component against a moving, twisting mech.

[FupDup]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 18 December 2016 - 07:22 PM, said:

Laugh all you want, used properly, LRM's are an Asset, to say otherwise shows an inherent lack of understanding of the weapons system and it's use.

Lol again.

Lurms in general have serious problems in general with being reliant on the opponent making mistakes, and range modules don't even help them. LRMs almost never make it to their full listed range of 1000 meters. Getting past even 600 meters is rare since the missiles fly slowly enough that the red team can break LOS and thus break the lock, causing the missiles to miss.

Next thing you'll tell me is that LBX range modules are useful.

[Y E O N N E]

Tarogato, on 18 December 2016 - 07:23 PM, said:

No, I specifically listed gauss 2PPC, which is 35 pinpoint.

Nah, you just said "Gauss/PPC."

Tarogato, on 18 December 2016 - 11:54 AM, said:

But clans have the option of running gauss/PPC, which though slightly lower alpha damage, doesn't have a burn duration, and has superior range to everything else other then ER larges.

But, 45 is 45.

[Tarogato]

Yeonne Greene, on 18 December 2016 - 07:30 PM, said:

Nah, you just said "Gauss/PPC."

Oh, woups. I labelled it inconsistently, and that was in another thread and I didn't post them all here. My bad.

[Shiroi Tsuki]

Had a match in Frozen Colony where we won 48-20 and a lmaoroflstomp defeat at 11-48 after. I guess Alpine and perhaps Polar is where Clanners have a significant advantage over IS due to map design, Tbh it's more have to do with how well your team is co-ordinated and the strategy involved.
As you've said;

Racerxintegra2k, on 18 December 2016 - 06:54 AM, said:

You guys use your advantages very effectively.

you gotta do the same. Close in that gap and force them in brawling range where IS typically have the advantge