57 replies to this topic

[Jay Leon Hart]

MadIrish, on 21 December 2016 - 11:52 AM, said:

I'm sorry I'm reading your last sentence as though you are trying to imply that the UAC5 doesn't jam so long as I use my latent telekinetic abilities to prevent it from jamming? Actually the UAC5 is never 100% reliable but I never asked for 100% reliability only for 100% consistency to allow the pilot to manage the fight rather than random O* S**t! moments. You will notice that in the test I fired 4 UAC5s 1 time with 1 click and jams unpredictably occurred, these jams last 6 seconds, so yes in a brawl it actually is never 100% reliable but it is also totally unmanageable.

I have never had a UAC jam on first shot. If you have, please record it and post the video, as I've never seen anyone else provide evidence of this claim, either. No double tap = no jam = 100% reliable.

[Edit] Jumping on a 4xUAC5 Mauler to test... Please Stand By... [/Edit]
[Edit2] Test complete. 4xUAC5. 450 shots fired. Alternating between clicking and holding LMB/Group 1. 0 jams. [/Edit2]

Edited by Jay Leon Hart, 24 December 2016 - 05:22 AM.

[Corrado]

Jay Leon Hart, on 24 December 2016 - 05:11 AM, said:

I have never had a UAC jam on first shot. If you have, please record it and post the video, as I've never seen anyone else provide evidence of this claim, either. No double tap = no jam = 100% reliable.

[Edit] Jumping on a 4xUAC5 Mauler to test... Please Stand By... [/Edit]
[Edit2] Test complete. 4xUAC5. 450 shots fired. Alternating between clicking and holding LMB/Group 1. 0 jams. [/Edit2]

i get constantly UAC20 jams on the SECOND tap, consistent jams on UAC10 while very few jams on UAC5.
looks like 5s are the way to go in a push.

[NRP]

In my experience, Clan UAC5s are far less reliable than IS UAC5s. Just yesterday I got into a brawl in my NTG-B and very quickly I'm standing there with all 4 of my cUAC5s red and inoperable while I proceed to get shredded. I think PGI went too far with whatever nerfs they applied to the cUAC5s.

My Sleipnir with 4 UAC5s is much more reliable.

[Beaching Betty]

The math!! is real..

[Roughneck45]

Beaching Betty, on 24 December 2016 - 09:38 AM, said:

The math!! is real..

The math is real, but this isn't EvE, so were not battling on spreadsheets.

UAC's are great, more DPS down range in the 1-2 second window you poke out of cover. The jam chance is worth the dps increase in nearly every situation.

[Sjorpha]

The jam chances were recently increased for no good reason, uacs weren't overpowered and the UAC20 was underpowered before and now it just sucks. I have no problem with the mechanic itself, just revert the jam chance increases.

[NRP]

If cUACs are your only weapon, then they're not so great. At least in my opinion. I might try cACs, but there's no cool down module available for them, which kind of sucks.

[Corrado]

NRP, on 24 December 2016 - 10:13 AM, said:

If cUACs are your only weapon, then they're not so great. At least in my opinion. I might try cACs, but there's no cool down module available for them, which kind of sucks.

cant wait for C-AC10 CD module and spam 4 with KDK3, DIRE or just 3 on the gyr.

[Y E O N N E]

NRP, on 24 December 2016 - 10:13 AM, said:

If cUACs are your only weapon, then they're not so great. At least in my opinion. I might try cACs, but there's no cool down module available for them, which kind of sucks.

If normal ACs or cACs are your only weapon, they're not so great, either. Output is too low.

[El Bandito]

NRP, on 24 December 2016 - 10:13 AM, said:

If cUACs are your only weapon, then they're not so great. At least in my opinion. I might try cACs, but there's no cool down module available for them, which kind of sucks.

My 6xCUAC2 Jade Kite disagrees with that. Even without cooldown module, it shreds armor and internals alike. Once February arrives, it will have access to sweet CUAC skill trees for reduced cooldown and reduced jam chance. Can't wait. February will be good time to be a Clanner.

NRP, on 24 December 2016 - 09:16 AM, said:

In my experience, Clan UAC5s are far less reliable than IS UAC5s. Just yesterday I got into a brawl in my NTG-B and very quickly I'm standing there with all 4 of my cUAC5s red and inoperable while I proceed to get shredded. I think PGI went too far with whatever nerfs they applied to the cUAC5s.

My Sleipnir with 4 UAC5s is much more reliable.

CUAC5s are now worse than UAC5 in terms of jam duration (0.5 second longer) and jam chance (2% more). On the flip side, IS mechs must use Std engine if they wish to boat two UAC5s on an ST.

Edited by El Bandito, 24 December 2016 - 12:28 PM.

[Snazzy Dragon]

The Lobsters, on 24 December 2016 - 02:55 AM, said:

One thing to say in support of the RNGjam is that it prevents fire control macros from giving a jam advantage. I too think that jam chance as a product of some other mech value would create more rewarding play. It would get ruined by macro players though, so RNG is the lesser of two evils in this case.

It's like no one understands that macros don't prevent jam chance and limit your DPS, as well as prevent all your shots going to the same place... so instead of dumping 30 rounds of UAC5 to kill someone you're dumping more around 90 in most cases. Totally inefficient.

[Pjwned]

MadIrish, on 19 December 2016 - 12:35 PM, said:

You make my point, the UAC5 takes away the players ability to control a surge because of its random jam and overlapping cooldown. You should be managing your heat not rolling the dice.

Not really, on top of managing your heat in general, what you should also be doing when it comes to UACs in particular--which is what the current system encourages you to do right now--is mitigating the risk of a jam having major negative consequences while fighting.

Are you double tapping to get some burst damage shortly before taking cover so that a jam won't matter as much? Are you double tapping because you're sure that the damage from double tapping will cripple or destroy a target? Are you making a risky play by double tapping knowing that a jam could put you in a bad spot with some sort of backup plan in mind, or somewhat similarly are you going out in a blaze of glory by double tapping everything because your mech is seconds away from destruction? Then you're doing a good (or at least passable) job mitigating the risks of UAC jams and not being a scrub.

Are you just double tapping all the time no matter what situation you're in, and then ***** & moan about the consequences? Then you're not doing a good job and you're playing like a scrub as well as acting like a scrub if/when you come whine about it.

I can't see how making it based on heat is any better than what it is now, partly because of what Roadblock said above about mixed builds, and introducing some sort of jam bar completely removes the requirement of mitigating the risk of a jam, which isn't a problem as long as you don't play and act like a scrub.

Edited by Pjwned, 24 December 2016 - 09:59 PM.

[The Lobsters]

Snazzy Dragon, on 24 December 2016 - 01:10 PM, said:

It's like no one understands that macros don't prevent jam chance and limit your DPS Totally inefficient.

Yep. I do use fire control on some builds. It can add some suppression and rangefinding utility. It won't kill anything quicker, ever.

Mainly though, I'm only using it because it makes my guns sound cooler.



.

Edited by The Lobsters, 24 December 2016 - 11:36 PM.

[MadIrish]

Jay Leon Hart, on 24 December 2016 - 05:11 AM, said:

I have never had a UAC jam on first shot. If you have, please record it and post the video, as I've never seen anyone else provide evidence of this claim, either. No double tap = no jam = 100% reliable.

[Edit] Jumping on a 4xUAC5 Mauler to test... Please Stand By... [/Edit]
[Edit2] Test complete. 4xUAC5. 450 shots fired. Alternating between clicking and holding LMB/Group 1. 0 jams. [/Edit2]

The numbers are in the original post.

Pjwned, on 24 December 2016 - 09:59 PM, said:

Not really, on top of managing your heat in general, what you should also be doing when it comes to UACs in particular--which is what the current system encourages you to do right now--is mitigating the risk of a jam having major negative consequences while fighting.

Are you double tapping to get some burst damage shortly before taking cover so that a jam won't matter as much? Are you double tapping because you're sure that the damage from double tapping will cripple or destroy a target? Are you making a risky play by double tapping knowing that a jam could put you in a bad spot with some sort of backup plan in mind, or somewhat similarly are you going out in a blaze of glory by double tapping everything because your mech is seconds away from destruction? Then you're doing a good (or at least passable) job mitigating the risks of UAC jams and not being a scrub.

Are you just double tapping all the time no matter what situation you're in, and then ***** & moan about the consequences? Then you're not doing a good job and you're playing like a scrub as well as acting like a scrub if/when you come whine about it.

I can't see how making it based on heat is any better than what it is now, partly because of what Roadblock said above about mixed builds, and introducing some sort of jam bar completely removes the requirement of mitigating the risk of a jam, which isn't a problem as long as you don't play and act like a scrub.

As I originally posted there are jams on the first click you can test it for yourself. Equip a King Crab 000 with 4 UACs and fire all 4 1 time at the same time, wait for the cool down to finish before firing again, and count the jams.

Edited by MadIrish, 27 December 2016 - 11:44 AM.

[MadIrish]

Jay Leon Hart, on 24 December 2016 - 05:11 AM, said:

Jumping on a 4xUAC5 Mauler to test... Please Stand By... [/Edit]Test complete. 4xUAC5. 450 shots fired. Alternating between clicking and holding LMB/Group 1. 0 jams. [/Edit2]

You are standing knee deep in it!

[Jay Leon Hart]

MadIrish, on 27 December 2016 - 11:33 AM, said:

As I originally posted there are jams on the first click you can test it for yourself. Equip a King Crab 000 with 4 UACs and fire all 4 1 time at the same time, wait for the cool down to finish before firing again, and count the jams.

Like I said, I did that with 4x UAC5 and a Mauler. I never had a single jam in 450 rounds. It does not happen. Nobody (that I have seen) has ever recorded it happening. UACs do not jam on the first shot.

[Tombs Clawtooth]

In all my gameplay since they raised the jam chances on UACs, I've found the UAC5 to be hit excessively hard.

I've switched over to UAC10s almost exclusively because 2x10s seem to have a higher probability of maintaining DPS over the course of extended fire. With 5s I end up with 2 of them jammed after the first or second shot most of the time. (3x5 vs 2x10.) It may just be a matter of feel, but I like the feel of the UAC10 better and feel like it's more dependable even though the jam time is absolutely brutal.

I haven't tried with 20s, I just can't handle the range.

Still wishing they'd just eliminate RNG from them, or require another button to be pressed to enable the burst fire mode. Standard ACs do not have modules so they are not a viable alternative. You can't ride a cool down without the ability to have a second set of eyes on the cool down bar or just spam the mouse button. Spamming the mouse button results in a jam, and watching the cool down bar closely is not viable when you're in a heated fight. (Same reason I don't bring the gauss rifle along very often, it requires too much attention to be paid to a 5 pixel light while my screen is being knocked all over the place in combat.)

LBs are not a viable replacement for UACs either as their PRACTICAL range is useless. Maybe if they universally reduced their spread by about 50% or more they'd be a viable weapon, but as is they're for very strict purpose built mechs, not something versatile.

I'd really prefer it if LBs were made more versatile to keep up the distinction between clan and IS. They should have a ridiculously tight spread to make up for not having mode switching implemented to at least split the difference between the 2 modes.

Jay Leon Hart, on 27 December 2016 - 03:14 PM, said:

Like I said, I did that with 4x UAC5 and a Mauler. I never had a single jam in 450 rounds. It does not happen. Nobody (that I have seen) has ever recorded it happening. UACs do not jam on the first shot.

I chaulk it up to network latency. With my ping I frequently get jams on my first shot fired.

It's neigh impossible to replicate results with RNG consistently, it's absolutely impossible to replicate it in testing grounds. But it does happen to me and has happened on and off to me since I started playing in august.

I've also had repeated times where on the second time I go to fire, no shells leave the barrel, it just jams. The behavior is so inconsistent and all over the place it's not able to be reproduced. I can't tell my ISP to make my internet better or worse on demand, and I assume that it has something to do with a packet error along the line.

Edited by Tombs Clawtooth, 27 December 2016 - 04:47 PM.

[Pjwned]

MadIrish, on 27 December 2016 - 11:33 AM, said:

The numbers are in the original post.



As I originally posted there are jams on the first click you can test it for yourself. Equip a King Crab 000 with 4 UACs and fire all 4 1 time at the same time, wait for the cool down to finish before firing again, and count the jams.

Still no definite proof, so I don't believe you.