After reading several battletech books I still wonder what will be true-confederate lance layout and it's tactics for this time period. Any ideas? Damn traitors from St. Ives included.
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Liao Standart Lance Layouts And Tactics '3050
Started by ShiroganeTakeru, Dec 19 2016 04:37 PM
3 replies to this topic
#2
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- The Flame
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Posted 29 December 2016 - 04:57 AM
via Imgflip Meme GeneratorSeriously though:
https://mwomercs.com...ech-typicality/
I find this thread, especially the chart posted by Odanan pretty helpful in determining what would constitute Liao lances.
#3
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- Senior Major
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Posted 27 January 2017 - 08:59 PM
Nephologist, on 29 December 2016 - 04:57 AM, said:
via Imgflip Meme GeneratorSeriously though:
https://mwomercs.com...ech-typicality/
I find this thread, especially the chart posted by Odanan pretty helpful in determining what would constitute Liao lances.
I have seen that thread. Well, it is a great help in accords to the mechs, but not in the terms of pure lance composition. My thought are that most of Liao lances are light or medium, with light lance composing of Raven, two Locusts and Vindicator (or Catapult for getting good use of Raven), medium lance composing of 3 Vindicators and a Catapult or a Cataphract. Also, there should be something like pure fire support lances (Riflemans & Catapults & Jagermechs with one light mech) and specialized Urbanmech lance (Liao is the only house to seriously use them). There also can be a true heavy lance with loads of Cataphracts in it, though they should be rare and precious, used exclusively to penetrate enemy lines.
#4
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Posted 08 May 2017 - 03:45 PM
So this is a pretty old thread, and I'm sort of necroing it, but after wandering in here once in a blue moon I thought it would be best to actually answer the question properly. To understand House Liao/Capellan lance compositions, there's some things to be understood for Battletech newbies and about the the House post Succession War and prior to Xin Sheng:
1. Capellans usually have the short end of all sticks and about no production capability. They literally have no ability to produce any Assault 'Mechs at all, with barely the ability to refit Highlanders into working condition. Even heavy 'Mechs are a stretch, the fact that the Cataphract was 'created' from bastardizing production lines should be indication of how bad they have it (And if that sounds bad, Davion then took over the production plant for said Cataphracts). St. Ives would be able to produce the Victor, however. When it comes to 'Mech typicality of Heavy/Assault, it's usually not about which 'Mechs they produce, but rather which ones are left over in notable enough numbers from old Star League days.
2. Of the remaining 'Mechs, it's hard to repair or resupply anything with newfangled components that aren't common. This is why the Vindicator is their workhorse. It's been around since forever, and you can get replacement parts for repairs when one gets damaged. All factions also frequently use captured 'Mechs in the fronts they fight in,
3. Capellans use combined arms more than any other faction because of the above, and it's not guaranteed the lance is fully stocked with even light 'Mechs. In a situation where Davion has a medium to heavy lance for instance, Liao likely has an Urbie, a Clint, some tanks, infantry support and balls that could crush an Atlas to answer.
4. As with all factions, the unit matters. Capellans differ between Warrior Houses and other notable units, Long standing local mercenaries and local defense forces and garrisons. A Warrior House that is prioritized will likely get supplied consistently, and is probably the only sort of unit that can field 'Mechs consistently. Even a notable mercenary group like McCarron's Armored Cavalry needs to supplement with combined arms, with a vast majority of the unsung getting by with whatever's rugged enough to have lasted. St. Ives on the other hand, disproportionately produces just Assault 'Mechs and needed the other stuff supplied to them. Being on good Terms with the Federated Suns, they gets them some 'Mechs typical to Davion for the Liao/Davion front. Because the Vindicator is so typically Capellan, St. Ives 'Mechwarriors typically refuse to pilot them stubbornly making Blackjacks in high demand.
5. Pure 'Mech lances aren't typical in the Battletech Universe. 9 out of 10 times, any single lance you pick out doesn't have repeats of a 'Mech. 'Mechs aren't easy to produce, there's a large variety, they get shipped everywhere and you need the production lines for parts for repairs and refits as well. That Vindicators are 'typical' doesn't mean Capellans run 4 x Vindicator lances, it means that in any given lance, one of them is almost always a Vindicator.
6. The player's tendencies in Mechwarrior games often diverge strongly from in-universe tendencies and doctrines. Just take a look at a stock Vindicator 1R (That's the typical Vindicator). This is a normal in-universe loadout for one of the most successful Workhorse 'Mechs across all of Battletech.
Examples:
Death Commandos:
Pillager
Cataphract
Thunder
Wraith
Warrior House:
Cyclops
Clint
Vindicator
Assassin
St. Ives Lancers:
Victor
Helios
Blackjack
Firebee
Northwind Highlanders:
Highlander
Hunchback
Ostroc
Captured Wolfhound
McCarron's Armored Cavalry:
Rifleman
Vindicator
Po Heavy Tank
LRM Carrier Vehicle
Capellan Defense Force:
Captured shot up Jaegermech missing a side torso
Vindicator
Tanks
Infantry
Confederation Reserve Cavalry:
Urbanmech
Hover Transport
Infantry
When playing though, you typically don't represent the local defenders trying to get by, but some fancy merc or loyalist merc company, or a freshly supplied force in a priority battle such as Task force Serpent. House Liao lances tend to be rugged and reliable designs that can dig in. When they can afford it, they might also specialize with what they have. This can mean a lance by itself divvies into specialized roles, or that the entire lance is specialized.
Example 1:
Command Lance:
Cyclops
Grasshopper
Cataphract
Hunchback
Fire Support Lance:
Catapult
Trebuchet
Vindicator
Urbanmech
Scout Lance
Cicada
Snake
Locust
Raven
In this case, the Capellans do a typical trick of trying to soften up targets with hit and run and indirect fire, coordinating their movements in across lances with the command lance reacting to where firepower is needed. Within each lance the individual roles are set, the Cyclops is the commander and employs the typical strategy of holding the cyclops back to use the faster moving assault where it hurts most, the Grasshopper reflects this notion with the Cataphract and Hunchback being escorts. Similarly, the general theme of the Fire Support lance is indirect fire using LRMs with a Vindicator and an Urbie as escorts, and finally, a relatively lightweight scout lance divided in an escort Cicada, a hit and runner Locust, an anti-infantry snake and a Raven as spotter.
Example 2:
Youling Zanshi:
Snake
Duan Gung
Sha Yu
Men Shen
In-universe, this is a specialized task force. All 4 'Mechs were outfitted with Stealth Armor, the Snake is a dedicated commander 'Mech, the Duan Gung is Fire Support, the Sha Yu a striker and the Men Shen has improved sensors. The overall speed of the lance is relatively high.
1. Capellans usually have the short end of all sticks and about no production capability. They literally have no ability to produce any Assault 'Mechs at all, with barely the ability to refit Highlanders into working condition. Even heavy 'Mechs are a stretch, the fact that the Cataphract was 'created' from bastardizing production lines should be indication of how bad they have it (And if that sounds bad, Davion then took over the production plant for said Cataphracts). St. Ives would be able to produce the Victor, however. When it comes to 'Mech typicality of Heavy/Assault, it's usually not about which 'Mechs they produce, but rather which ones are left over in notable enough numbers from old Star League days.
2. Of the remaining 'Mechs, it's hard to repair or resupply anything with newfangled components that aren't common. This is why the Vindicator is their workhorse. It's been around since forever, and you can get replacement parts for repairs when one gets damaged. All factions also frequently use captured 'Mechs in the fronts they fight in,
3. Capellans use combined arms more than any other faction because of the above, and it's not guaranteed the lance is fully stocked with even light 'Mechs. In a situation where Davion has a medium to heavy lance for instance, Liao likely has an Urbie, a Clint, some tanks, infantry support and balls that could crush an Atlas to answer.
4. As with all factions, the unit matters. Capellans differ between Warrior Houses and other notable units, Long standing local mercenaries and local defense forces and garrisons. A Warrior House that is prioritized will likely get supplied consistently, and is probably the only sort of unit that can field 'Mechs consistently. Even a notable mercenary group like McCarron's Armored Cavalry needs to supplement with combined arms, with a vast majority of the unsung getting by with whatever's rugged enough to have lasted. St. Ives on the other hand, disproportionately produces just Assault 'Mechs and needed the other stuff supplied to them. Being on good Terms with the Federated Suns, they gets them some 'Mechs typical to Davion for the Liao/Davion front. Because the Vindicator is so typically Capellan, St. Ives 'Mechwarriors typically refuse to pilot them stubbornly making Blackjacks in high demand.
5. Pure 'Mech lances aren't typical in the Battletech Universe. 9 out of 10 times, any single lance you pick out doesn't have repeats of a 'Mech. 'Mechs aren't easy to produce, there's a large variety, they get shipped everywhere and you need the production lines for parts for repairs and refits as well. That Vindicators are 'typical' doesn't mean Capellans run 4 x Vindicator lances, it means that in any given lance, one of them is almost always a Vindicator.
6. The player's tendencies in Mechwarrior games often diverge strongly from in-universe tendencies and doctrines. Just take a look at a stock Vindicator 1R (That's the typical Vindicator). This is a normal in-universe loadout for one of the most successful Workhorse 'Mechs across all of Battletech.
Examples:
Death Commandos:
Pillager
Cataphract
Thunder
Wraith
Warrior House:
Cyclops
Clint
Vindicator
Assassin
St. Ives Lancers:
Victor
Helios
Blackjack
Firebee
Northwind Highlanders:
Highlander
Hunchback
Ostroc
Captured Wolfhound
McCarron's Armored Cavalry:
Rifleman
Vindicator
Po Heavy Tank
LRM Carrier Vehicle
Capellan Defense Force:
Captured shot up Jaegermech missing a side torso
Vindicator
Tanks
Infantry
Confederation Reserve Cavalry:
Urbanmech
Hover Transport
Infantry
When playing though, you typically don't represent the local defenders trying to get by, but some fancy merc or loyalist merc company, or a freshly supplied force in a priority battle such as Task force Serpent. House Liao lances tend to be rugged and reliable designs that can dig in. When they can afford it, they might also specialize with what they have. This can mean a lance by itself divvies into specialized roles, or that the entire lance is specialized.
Example 1:
Command Lance:
Cyclops
Grasshopper
Cataphract
Hunchback
Fire Support Lance:
Catapult
Trebuchet
Vindicator
Urbanmech
Scout Lance
Cicada
Snake
Locust
Raven
In this case, the Capellans do a typical trick of trying to soften up targets with hit and run and indirect fire, coordinating their movements in across lances with the command lance reacting to where firepower is needed. Within each lance the individual roles are set, the Cyclops is the commander and employs the typical strategy of holding the cyclops back to use the faster moving assault where it hurts most, the Grasshopper reflects this notion with the Cataphract and Hunchback being escorts. Similarly, the general theme of the Fire Support lance is indirect fire using LRMs with a Vindicator and an Urbie as escorts, and finally, a relatively lightweight scout lance divided in an escort Cicada, a hit and runner Locust, an anti-infantry snake and a Raven as spotter.
Example 2:
Youling Zanshi:
Snake
Duan Gung
Sha Yu
Men Shen
In-universe, this is a specialized task force. All 4 'Mechs were outfitted with Stealth Armor, the Snake is a dedicated commander 'Mech, the Duan Gung is Fire Support, the Sha Yu a striker and the Men Shen has improved sensors. The overall speed of the lance is relatively high.
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