5 replies to this topic

[Tiantara]

- I copy that from my comment in Faction Play discuss.
Clan OP, IS good and so one... I see possibility to change something what was good long time ago and now just make problems with all that new mech in play:

1. Change IS XL engine mechanic to same as Clan have - dead side torso = lower speed, maybe even more low than clan have after killed side torso. If it possible - add that mechanic to PTS server and see how changes balance in good way. I thing that make game better.
(As for me, I buy STD engine on clan mech where it possible to have same speed even if I loose side torso, and use STD only on IS mech which can be easy killed by side-torso-one-shot)

2. Add clear information about choosing and upgrading IS mech in some first pages of game site, not in WIKI or deep in forums pages. Make clear - Clan casual, IS for professional because that how it looks now (Less tweaking in first - more in second). Want easy play and no worries - buy Clan. Want tinkering mech and first 20-60 battles die from slight mistake in build - take IS.

3. Add to testing ground ability to choose what target dummy you want see. IS or Clan. Why? Because everyone know weak spots of IS mech and use it!! But noone can have ability to study weak points of Clan! And Clan pilots use it. Maybe even add by default - testing IS mech - have Clan targets. Have Clan mech - shoot IS targets. That also helps. That even vital now.

4. Free a little useful tonnage in some IS mech. From 3 to 6 ton for example. Like Cyclop, Rifleman, Archer and many like them. Some of them really have few rom for build.

5. Get rid of necessary 2-3 DHS in some medium\light IS mech. Maybe in old time that was cool and normal (before clan. And I remember that time, because play from first day of game start - Atlas and Catapult still my favorite mech and also I remember how hard was to tinker Raven to make it great), but now that make mech full of wide DHS and left less room for actually weapon. I see that "overheat icon" when heatmanagement of mech = 2 \ 1.54 and have no idea why that mech already show me that it too hot!! Why? Why i need put at least 2-3 heatsinks to make mech playable? I understand if that was single heatsinks. But I change mech to double! That also make IS mech worse than Clan. That problem is in Centurion based on STD 200 engine for example but mech have 1.24 heatmamanagement. Not 0.72, not even 0.98. Full 1.24 heatmanagement and that mech need at least 1 DHS to operate! For what? Pilot cabin conditioner?

6. Add a slight random drop zones. On same distance, but a little different. Say... 2-3 variants. That prevent of using same road and same strategy all the times. 3 lances vs 3 lances.

7. Bring on map some more structures for "City street battle". To make ambush in different mirrored maybe parts of map. Too much wide open locations where Clan mech have more power because of speed and range. Great map was old Frozen City. Also great map - HPG Manifold. Add some that elements. Also great example - Vitric Forge and Emerald Taiga. Great for hiding and sniping - Grim Portico. Boreal Vault nice example of two wide open places and in same time canyons and buildings for brawling and ambushing. Do maps for any types of mech. Do new based on old one. Like it would be great if Terra Therma have another variant but with Jungle on it, like Bog have. And have some sandy variant of Viridian Bog with dunes and cliffs. That need just texture change and adding some minor already implemented details.

[Livaria]

1. this has already been discussed before. It's not a bad idea, but we still need to know if the playerbase and PGI is willing to sacrifice that kind of change. The conflict that occurs; is mostly lore concerned.

2 and 3 is perfectly fine, there is nothing wrong with information that is easier to access. Though I think most of the problems that happen in Faction Warfare; is bigger than just a lack of information.

4 and 5 are suggestions that i'm a little skeptical about. Sure tonnage can be increased and it might help a little, but then players could easily see this as an unfair advantage from the clan perspective. It would also require further balancing. There would have to be some serious rule breaking for this to happen. It is another conflict with lore that can stir controversy.

6. Adding randomized drop zones sounds more of a trade-off than a solution. It wouldn't just affect innersphere but it would affect Clans as well. It may serve some good purpose such as alleviating the effects of drop zone camping, but then players have to build a strategies on drop zones that are constantly changing. It's a difficult, and it could anger some players for justifiable reasons.

7. I would be okay with this. I think a lot of maps should assist more towards encompassing more play styles. It's a complicated subject. But there is value to be had.

Edited by Livaria, 19 December 2016 - 06:42 PM.

[Tiantara]

- Well... as IS pilot from first day of game - Atlas, Catapult and many other great mech - I prefer have 30% of all my max speed but stay alive for few more seconds to deliver a bit more damage rather, than die instantly. Especially when I got friendly fire in my back side torso with not so great armor at all. Catapult have more front armor like Atlas and same with other mech. On light\medium mech duels become useless if you meet clan. They just focus one side torso and rip it in no time. Hell.. better go slower than die. Worst thing get heavy ballistic shot. I have some Clan mech tuned only for one shot killing light IS mech. And thay do it great because of XL mechanic. Yes by lore it's cool... but we don't have ammo explosion after crit gauss hit now? Also we have minimized headshot. Many in MWO moved from lore a bit. Same here. When we have only IS mech - you can choose: speed or survivability. With clan - you can choose only - die fast or die slow before you get in fire range. As IS pilot i don't like that. And also not every IS mech XL friendly. Some even have less armor in ST - which bring to death even faster.
What say clan players: see fast IS - hit side torso for sure!

- Yeap..

- If XL new mechanic was implemented - that no needed... Agree. But forcing player place additional DHS or SHS just for make mech run - just too anachronism. I can free some place in light mech. Of place additional ammo into medium. But with high heatmanagement I forced to put some DHS just to make mech proper. Why? Maybe I need also put nuclear fuel into it before each battle? By lore that maybe works. But now I think is useless force player put whole 3 DHS in some mech just for make mech accaptable for battle. Or your mech marked as invalid! 3 tons and 9 slots you lose to make that! Why? When mech already cool enough? What the point in that mechanic?

- On random drop zones I mean some clockwise turning with preserving same range between two sides. Not great - but slight and tighter lance placing. See map as 6-gon. Each corner in front of another. All 3 drops placed near that corner. So you have random of 3 positions only and possibility to have 3-6 new routes. Just from or to center of map. 12-20 battles and everyone have knowledge about where enemy if you placed here by make straight line from your corner drop zone to enemy corner. And make decision in which way move. Now - we have nearly 2 switching points which force players take all the time same road in same 40% of whole map and don't use all 60% of map anyway. In case of 3 random zones - you cover all map and bring different map zones into play. Such as - buildings, ruins, all other structures. Indeed that work only on big map. Like - new frozen city, polar highland and such. Not in canyon or viridian bog...

- Yeap. And I think it pretty easy make some variants based on same map by adding another temperature, light and textures. Also that great for rotation and nice for representing different planet zones as well. Also - adding different map zones for different play styles make better understanding mech role and with random of dropzone landing - force mech use smart "Naaaascaaaaar!!" to change position where they have advantage, not just run until someone give up. When you have field, forest and city, you can choose how to play and play smart. When you have 12 brawlers and stay in open place because... you got that - you don't play smart. You get angry and die from longrange shot.

[Tiantara]

- Ok. Now i have serious interest in that especially after some dialogues about XL.
Lets say make a list:

1. Of mech which can't be played without XL, you change STD to Xl as quick as you have enough C-bill (most of light and medium mech seems go here)
2. Of mech which can be played only with XL but never taken because of high risk to die (some heavy and assaults maybe, or medium with bad hitboxes, what make them be killed in no time) Lets call them - XL-unfriendly mech
3. Of mech which great only on STD engine because of low room for weapon. Also zombie mech comes here.

Write your experience of mech and which mech can become interesting again if XL damage (loose side torso) make mech 40% slower but not dead.

I think here will be some forgotten mech like Dragon.
Some mech have boost like Vindicator, Quickdraw, Trebuchet, Commando and Firestarter.
maybe become a bit more fast - Awesome, Victor, Zeus, King Crab, Jagermech...

[InspectorG]

#1. Yes, equalize IS to Clan XL Engines.

BUT ALSO buff STD Engines. Have them provide a Structure buff to CT/ST based on % of weight class.

Example: 100 ton mech gets 50% weight buff to CT/ST. So additional 50 structure to CT and Sts. Locust gets 100% so 20 structure to Ct and to STs. Extrapolate Medium and Heavies.

I would also vouch for SHS being less proficient than DHS when boated but providing a +5 structure buff per SHS to the component in which it is equipped.

[Tiantara]

- STD already provides good bonus - you don't loose speed, you don't die of both side torso killed (vital for some mech), you have more room for ammo and weapon. Making STD buff - make some mech just invincible and bring more disbalance. So they good as they are.

SHS simply no need in many situation. They just starter equipment and everyone get rid of them when build mech. Also they useless by efficient and tonnage even by saving room... So make them buff or change - no need also.