Jump to content

Please Buff The Mist Lynx

Balance BattleMechs

37 replies to this topic

#1 Kaonicping

    Rookie

  • Little Helper
  • 8 posts

Posted 26 December 2016 - 01:28 PM

[Large wall of text, TL;DR at the bottom]

Posted Image
(picture from the wiki)

Currently the Mist Lynx is usually considered an all-round bad mech and is outclassed in essentially anything it tries to do. In spite of this, the 1xERPPC+ECM build is insanely fun, and it is a shame you can't really expect much out of it. Here are some of the most obvious problems I've noticed (although there probably are others):

-Too slow

At 121.9 kph after Speed Tweak due to its puny XL175 engine, the poor Mist Lynx is quite slow for a light and downright sluggish when compared with its 25-ton IS partner, the Commando, who can carry up to an XL240 and go as fast at 167.2 kph with Speed Tweak. For such a fragile light, speed is crucial for survival and I would love to see it be able to carry a larger engine (at least XL200) in order to be remotely viable. Also, the small engine means it suffers from having only 7 internal DHSs, making it run hotter than would be desirable.

-Locked equipment it neither wants nor needs

Obviously I'm mainly referring to the Clan Active Probe which is superglued into the the head, wasting 1 of your precious tons. 6 jump jets is also excessive for most purposes, and if we were able to change these out (or just not have them at all) we would unlock a lot more potential in this mech. Even if you object to Omnimechs being able to move such equipment around, we could just have another variant with no Clan Active Probe and fewer jump jets, so we can actually customise this thing.

-Everything's in the arms

Well, not everything. But all hardpoints, be they missile, energy or even AMS and ECM, are in one of the arms, leaving the side torsos fairly useless. The left torso is filled with locked equipment, but the right torso has two slots free and could easily use some sort of hardpoint. Also, with all the weapons and the ECM in the arms, they become particularly juicy targets so experienced pilots will try to remove them, essentially making the mech into a stick (or a tree stump perhaps). Finally, the MLX-C left arm which has the ECM hardpoint has no weapon hardpoints, so you must accept that taking an ECM will halve the number of hardpoints you have in most cases. To make matters worse, the highest mounted energy hardpoint is on the MLX-B's left arm, so is not available if you want ECM.

-Very low mounts

The Mist Lynx usually fires from the hip, and the very highest hardpoints are still below cockpit level, and far below the top of the mech. Having to expose so much of your wafer-thin CT and side torso armour is not a nice prospect, and it also all too easy to fire crucial shots into a rock to your right rather than into the enemy mech. That said, you have 6 jump jets, and a tiny hitbox, so poptarting is a fairly rewarding experience (but then again you have a tiny alpha strike, so can't actually do much).

How can we fix it?

One idea I had which would lessen the speed issue is:

-Remove the Clan Active Probe from the head (seriously, we really don't need it)
-Remove one locked DHS from the Left Torso (since the new engine will have 8 internally)
-Upgrade the engine to an XL200

This brings it up to exactly the same top speed as an Arctic Cheetah (139.3 kph), without sacrificing any free tonnage or any jump jets, although in my opinion it could still do with being faster. If we, on top of the above changes:

-Remove another locked DHS
-Remove 2 jump jets
-Sacrifice half a ton of free tonnage
-Upgrade to an XL225

it maxes out at a very respectable 156.7 kph, as (I think) the fastest clanner in-game, although for my favourite build I'd probably have to strip half a ton of armour (which is a big deal for such a small mech). At this speed it is perfectly good, and while it is still slower than some IS lights, IMO this is as fast as it needs to be. While these changes would not be in line with the lore, PGI has made enough non-lore additions to MWO that at least in my humble opinion, this wouldn't be particularly blasphemous, as after all that bigger engine is going to a good cause.

The hardpoint location problem

MLX weapon hardpoints are all either above, below or to the side of its fists, with only a select few being above. I would like to see either:

-An energy hardpoint above the right hand
OR
-An ECM hardpoint somewhere that isn't the left arm (perhaps in the head after removing the Active Probe?)
OR BOTH

This would help with the low mounts a little, and the second option would allow for 'boating' of much more lasers (well OK 2 ER-Mediums and 2 Medium Pulse or similar isn't the scariest thing on the battlefield). I'm not too keen on changing its look entirely by Blackjack-esque arms to give it higher mounts, but we could definitely add the odd energy/missile hardpoint to one or both of the side torsos.

If you don't want to change the variants currently in-game, PGI could release a new variant (preferably not locked behind a paywall, but meh), and still achieve any of these possible buffs.

Quirks?

The Mist Lynx has respectable quirks in its current state, including nice acceleration and turning buffs, plenty of additional inner structure and some crazy +24 armour on some arms (including that lovely ECM one). But it is no SDR-5K or LCT-1V with absurd energy cooldown quirks (which would be a quick and dirty way to get this mech more viable, with the potential to even make it OP)

The Mist Lynx remains one of my favourite chassis, both aesthetically and for its enjoyment factor, and I will continue to play it even if it were nerfed a little (although I may have a bone to pick with PGI if so). It would make both my and many other mechwarriors days if this unloved little mech were to be made not top-tier 'new meta confirmed' but at least... OK, or maybe even mediocre. I strongly believe that the Holy Grail in balancing for this game should be to get all mechs up to a usable standard, rather than constantly adding new OP ones without worrying about some getting left behind.

TL;DR:

Faster, higher... less CAP

#2 RestosIII

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The 1 Percent
  • The 1 Percent
  • 7,322 posts
  • LocationDelios

Posted 26 December 2016 - 01:36 PM

No to an engine change. I ain't letting you touch my lore. Being able to take out JJ's and cAP though? 100% fine with that. Always thought they should be unlocked on all omnis anyways.

#3 Darian DelFord

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 3,342 posts
  • LocationFlorida

Posted 26 December 2016 - 01:37 PM

Ummmmmmmm

MLX-B


Master this and then tell me the ML is trash. While I agree it needs a few tweaks upwards..... it is NOT in as bad a shape as you think.

Edited by Darian DelFord, 26 December 2016 - 01:38 PM.


#4 Y E O N N E

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Nimble
  • The Nimble
  • 16,810 posts

Posted 26 December 2016 - 01:40 PM

If PGI unlocks the CAP, gives the energy arms pod-specific armor buffs like the non-energy arms got, and throws on a 15-20% ER laser duration reduction, it will be pretty baller. The MLX-B is already baller. I am one mean nasty with that 'Mech.

#5 Darian DelFord

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 3,342 posts
  • LocationFlorida

Posted 26 December 2016 - 01:43 PM

View PostYeonne Greene, on 26 December 2016 - 01:40 PM, said:

If PGI unlocks the CAP, gives the energy arms pod-specific armor buffs like the non-energy arms got, and throws on a 15-20% ER laser duration reduction, it will be pretty baller. The MLX-B is already baller. I am one mean nasty with that 'Mech.


Yes...... I hate you for telling me about this mech ;pp

#6 RestosIII

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The 1 Percent
  • The 1 Percent
  • 7,322 posts
  • LocationDelios

Posted 26 December 2016 - 01:46 PM

View PostDarian DelFord, on 26 December 2016 - 01:37 PM, said:

Ummmmmmmm

MLX-B


Master this and then tell me the ML is trash. While I agree it needs a few tweaks upwards..... it is NOT in as bad a shape as you think.


Pffft. Pathetic. The only true Mist Lynx is this Mist Lynx.

MLX-A Lore Build

#7 Kaonicping

    Rookie

  • Little Helper
  • 8 posts

Posted 26 December 2016 - 01:53 PM

View PostDarian DelFord, on 26 December 2016 - 01:37 PM, said:

Ummmmmmmm

MLX-B


Master this and then tell me the ML is trash. While I agree it needs a few tweaks upwards..... it is NOT in as bad a shape as you think.


Admittedly I didn't pay much attention to this kind of build, and I will certainly give it a try (is all that back armour there for a reason, or should I tone it down a bit?). But it could be much nastier with ECM and a bigger engine, since it is forced to lose the ECM in order to get any appreciable number of hardpoints.

I think I might also try it with the ECM arm and bigger SRMs to see how it compares (I suspect it will be a fair bit worse)

EDIT: It's also nice that they're on sale at the moment Posted Image. Proceeding to outfit it now.

Edited by Kaonicping, 26 December 2016 - 01:57 PM.


#8 Aiden Skye

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Galaxy Commander II
  • Galaxy Commander II
  • 1,364 posts
  • LocationThe Rock

Posted 26 December 2016 - 01:59 PM

Compared to the AC it really doesn't bring much to the table outside of JJ's and some danm good looks. I would really like to be able to take the CAP out of the Mistlynx at least.

#9 dario03

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Galaxy Commander
  • 3,627 posts

Posted 26 December 2016 - 02:08 PM

I would like some pods to have big Cerppc quirks, especially velocity.

#10 Snazzy Dragon

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Defiant
  • The Defiant
  • 2,912 posts
  • LocationRUNNING FAST AND TURNING LEFT

Posted 26 December 2016 - 02:09 PM

Let the mist lynx be one of the few clan mechs capable of melee if/when that does hit, so the little buggers can run around kicking your ankles.

In all seriousness, this needs to be capable of removing jumpjets and the active probe, and a torso hardpoint to make energy builds more viable. Of course, it will likely be the hero mist lynx that brings this to the table, if it ever makes it; enjoy your paywalled powercreep, mist lynx style.

#11 MechWarrior414712

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 446 posts

Posted 26 December 2016 - 02:12 PM

This thread again :D

Not gonna happen, it's been too long already and even when PGI revisits the quirks like every patch they wont do anything which actually helps.

#12 Y E O N N E

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Nimble
  • The Nimble
  • 16,810 posts

Posted 26 December 2016 - 02:12 PM

View PostKaonicping, on 26 December 2016 - 01:53 PM, said:


Admittedly I didn't pay much attention to this kind of build, and I will certainly give it a try (is all that back armour there for a reason, or should I tone it down a bit?). But it could be much nastier with ECM and a bigger engine, since it is forced to lose the ECM in order to get any appreciable number of hardpoints.

I think I might also try it with the ECM arm and bigger SRMs to see how it compares (I suspect it will be a fair bit worse)

EDIT: It's also nice that they're on sale at the moment Posted Image. Proceeding to outfit it now.


For the MLX-B, this is how I have mine built. You get a +24 armor buff on the right arm, so it's worth it to take some of that new-found playing room and put it toward ammo or toward running dual SRM4. I found I was consistently running dry with dual SRM4 and 200 rounds, so I dropped one of the SRM4 to an SRM2 and added a half-ton of ammo. Can't really see any performance difference, but I am not running out of ammo anymore.

The ECM doesn't help you much; I would only recommend it if you are doing the pop-tart thing with an ERPPC since it will keep you obfuscated at range because otherwise the ECM is just wasting tonnage better spent on weapons and ammo. More speed would be nice, but it would also honestly take away from the identity of the 'Mech. I could get behind maybe a 5% increase, but anymore and it's kinda lame.

There are omnipods available that give it 8x MG (G pods, lmao, awesome) and 8xE (F and P pods, yes plz!), they just aren't in the game.

View PostDarian DelFord, on 26 December 2016 - 01:43 PM, said:

Yes...... I hate you for telling me about this mech ;pp


What if I told you that the pure MLX-PRIME has more than double the cool-down quirks for missiles? Add MGs, and it is lololololololol. You can cram 900 damage worth of ammo in it pretty comfortably.

#13 Kaonicping

    Rookie

  • Little Helper
  • 8 posts

Posted 26 December 2016 - 02:25 PM

View PostYeonne Greene, on 26 December 2016 - 02:12 PM, said:


For the MLX-B, this is how I have mine built. You get a +24 armor buff on the right arm, so it's worth it to take some of that new-found playing room and put it toward ammo or toward running dual SRM4. I found I was consistently running dry with dual SRM4 and 200 rounds, so I dropped one of the SRM4 to an SRM2 and added a half-ton of ammo. Can't really see any performance difference, but I am not running out of ammo anymore.


This was pretty much what I went for, but I sacked a little armour to add those extra 50 SRM rounds.

View PostYeonne Greene, on 26 December 2016 - 02:12 PM, said:

The ECM doesn't help you much; I would only recommend it if you are doing the pop-tart thing with an ERPPC since it will keep you obfuscated at range because otherwise the ECM is just wasting tonnage better spent on weapons and ammo. More speed would be nice, but it would also honestly take away from the identity of the 'Mech. I could get behind maybe a 5% increase, but anymore and it's kinda lame.


While I do love ECM, I'll admit it's not quite as useful if you have to get into SPL range to deal serious damage.

Edited by Kaonicping, 26 December 2016 - 02:27 PM.


#14 Alistair Winter

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Storm
  • Storm
  • 10,823 posts
  • LocationBergen, Norway, FRR

Posted 26 December 2016 - 02:29 PM

You're still complaining even after PGI gave the Mist Lynx that massive UAC2 jam quirk?

Some people are never happy.

#15 Kaonicping

    Rookie

  • Little Helper
  • 8 posts

Posted 26 December 2016 - 02:35 PM

View PostAlistair Winter, on 26 December 2016 - 02:29 PM, said:

You're still complaining even after PGI gave the Mist Lynx that massive UAC2 jam quirk?

Some people are never happy.


I seriously wanted to make a UAC/2 build Posted Image. Sadly I would have to drop ECM or lose that truly awe-inspiring quirk.

Also, if we were able to change equipment, maybe I could go for a UAC/5...

Edited by Kaonicping, 26 December 2016 - 02:36 PM.


#16 Y E O N N E

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Nimble
  • The Nimble
  • 16,810 posts

Posted 26 December 2016 - 02:39 PM

View PostAlistair Winter, on 26 December 2016 - 02:29 PM, said:

You're still complaining even after PGI gave the Mist Lynx that massive UAC2 jam quirk?

Some people are never happy.


Need, like, +100% ammo capacity buff for me to even begin toying with the idea of using it even for the lulz.

#17 Tarogato

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Civil Servant
  • Civil Servant
  • 6,558 posts
  • LocationUSA

Posted 26 December 2016 - 02:48 PM

Problems with the Mist Lynx:

- large arms collect a lot of damage and fall off
- can't mount big enough payload to justify going only 122 kph
- wasted tonnage on locked equipment




Solutions:

- remodel the dynamic hardpoints

Posted Image
Posted Image



- unlock the cAP
(can't really justify unlocking jumpjets, as that sets a dangerous precedent for MWO)


- give it better omnipods

There is a lore variant (called MLX-P) with 8 energy hardpoints that could be adapted for MWO:


Posted Image



And yeah, bonus points because PGI tends to name their own invented variants as -P variants, and this one is already a -P variant in lore. If PGI ever introduces micro lasers in the future, they could just return the MLX-P stock build back to its lore build.

#18 Y E O N N E

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Nimble
  • The Nimble
  • 16,810 posts

Posted 26 December 2016 - 03:00 PM

View PostTarogato, on 26 December 2016 - 02:48 PM, said:

Problems with the Mist Lynx:

- large arms collect a lot of damage and fall off

~snip~

Solutions:

- remodel the dynamic hardpoints


Unnecessary work; armor quirk fixed this issue entirely on the pods that were so blessed. They just need to apply it to all the pods.

#19 Tarogato

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Civil Servant
  • Civil Servant
  • 6,558 posts
  • LocationUSA

Posted 26 December 2016 - 03:17 PM

View PostYeonne Greene, on 26 December 2016 - 03:00 PM, said:


Unnecessary work; armor quirk fixed this issue entirely on the pods that were so blessed. They just need to apply it to all the pods.


The remodel is actually the first change I would make. I would also make the same change to the Ice Ferret, Commando, and Panther.

I think it's silly to make these components absurdly and artificially tanky when instead you could actually fix what is wrong with them.

Edited by Tarogato, 26 December 2016 - 03:17 PM.


#20 Y E O N N E

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Nimble
  • The Nimble
  • 16,810 posts

Posted 26 December 2016 - 03:23 PM

View PostTarogato, on 26 December 2016 - 03:17 PM, said:


The remodel is actually the first change I would make. I would also make the same change to the Ice Ferret, Commando, and Panther.

I think it's silly to make these components absurdly and artificially tanky when instead you could actually fix what is wrong with them.


In this case, the stupidly huge arms is part of the 'Mech's identity; pragmatism has to take a back-seat because that identity is part of the appeal of the 'Mech. Without the stupidly huge arms, it's not a Mist Lynx any more. Artificial or not, the current solution works.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 26 December 2016 - 03:23 PM.






1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users