15 replies to this topic

[nehebkau]

Just checked and clans are at an 88% win rate with 20 minutes left in the cycle-- so how is that drop deck increase/decrease working out?

Anyone else of the opinion that the "its hardcore mode/get gud/there is no matchmaker/no noobs/Nothing-to-see-here-move-along" needs to be shelved in favour of not turning 4.1 into the wasteland that V3 was? At the very least can we get IS XL engines to not explode on ST loss?


EDIT make that :

60 wins to clan 8 wins to IS.

EDIT
61 to 8... with 2 seconds remaining!

Edited by nehebkau, 19 December 2016 - 06:01 AM.

[Bud Crue]

It would be really interesting to see where the population is at. Did the tonnage adjustment incentivize many mercs to go over from clans to the IS (other than the vocal few players posting in other threads)? I mean if the majority of the population, and particularly the "high-tier players" whose distribution PGI claims to be monitoring is mostly IS and the IS is still consistently losing, then that would seem to me to be proof positive of a tech imbalance.

Alas, PGI doesn't share that data.

I have every confidence in the world however, that they are on top of this situation and will attempt another adjustment by doing something like, perhaps nerfing the Quickdraw and the Mist lynx while maybe buffing small lasers and narcs. In any case everything is fine and dandy.

Edited by Bud Crue, 19 December 2016 - 06:02 AM.

[Fake News]

because tonnage doesn't impact the merc proteams. just the clan loyalists and pugs

[_Comrade_]

I win most of my matches as a clan pug not in a unit, so yes clan mechs are better. Against 12 man IS units I lose, but against pug IS team , I just about win Everytime

[Stormie]

Bud Crue, on 19 December 2016 - 06:02 AM, said:

It would be really interesting to see where the population is at. Did the tonnage adjustment incentivize many mercs to go over from clans to the IS (other than the vocal few players posting in other threads)? I mean if the majority of the population, and particularly the "high-tier players" whose distribution PGI claims to be monitoring is mostly IS and the IS is still consistently losing, then that would seem to me to be proof positive of a tech imbalance.

Alas, PGI doesn't share that data.

I have every confidence in the world however, that they are on top of this situation and will attempt another adjustment by doing something like, perhaps nerfing the Quickdraw and the Mist lynx while maybe buffing small lasers and narcs. In any case everything is fine and dandy.

Well we are on desertion cooldown now. 6 days we'll be in the IS. we are only small fish but if we are looking to move I'm sure other units are too. (still maintaining 7+ WLR, so tonnage difference hasn't stopped us yet)

[xWiredx]

I think it's pretty clear that the tonnage increase for IS is better utilized the higher skill level the pilot is and in relation to the organization of the team. A green IS pug will not make good use of that extra tonnage compared to a skilled player, but also the greater the synergy the team has as a whole the better that tonnage will be utilized as well.

So let's see a lot more statistics than just W/L before we make any conclusions here.

[C E Dwyer]

Bud Crue, on 19 December 2016 - 06:02 AM, said:

It would be really interesting to see where the population is at. Did the tonnage adjustment incentivize many mercs to go over from clans to the IS (other than the vocal few players posting in other threads)? I mean if the majority of the population, and particularly the "high-tier players" whose distribution PGI claims to be monitoring is mostly IS and the IS is still consistently losing, then that would seem to me to be proof positive of a tech imbalance.

Alas, PGI doesn't share that data.

I have every confidence in the world however, that they are on top of this situation and will attempt another adjustment by doing something like, perhaps nerfing the Quickdraw and the Mist lynx while maybe buffing small lasers and narcs. In any case everything is fine and dandy.

P.G.I doesn't share that data because if they did, half the community, even those that do not have coding skills would be able to see where the fault lays and do a better job of balancing for free.

[Graugger]

88% that's it???

Well obviously we need to load the IS with more potatoes so the groups have to liftz harder!

Clans need to gain an extra 5 available tons to their drop deck every time they win until the potatoes learn to play.

[xX PUG Xx]

http://s1310.photobu...45nol9.jpg.html

A screenshot from around midnight on Friday GMT I believe.

We aren't particularly skilled but we do TRY to play as a team and as you can see, we get it right most of the time. Map knowledge, knowing which 'Mechs/builds work on that map and getting your team to play as one can go a long way against 80-85% of the teams out there. The top flight guys'n'gals are good regardless of what they pilot, so the extra tonnage may help you keep the scores closer but it's a 1 in 5 chance of winning really.

I'm going to keep saying it: if you group up with competent pilots and use decent builds, then you stand a good chance of winning. If you drop solo and/or use "Lore" or poorly thought out builds, you stand good chance of being pounded into the dirt, set on fire, hog tied and thrown in lava......with diamond armoured sharks...... that have lasers for eyes. Yep it'll go badly.

There are a LOT of knowledgable players out there that can teach you how to build 'Mechs, get you into drop groups and get you winning more than losing. Seek out the faction TS addresses, get on there and talk to people: knowledge is power.

Oh and it sounds like the tonnage will keep moving until PGI is happy the populations are closer to parity, so don't get comfortable with that bonus

Edited by xX PUG Xx, 19 December 2016 - 09:06 AM.

[The Basilisk]

I would neither say that clan tech in general is all around better nor partial OP.

Lets take a more refined look on what happend over the year:

We got the mech rescaling which rendered previously popular IS mechs unpopular (not unplayable but unfun to play)
We got exactly two attractive IS Battlemechs late last year/ early this year, Marauder and Warhammer.
With the Marauder getting its 10T heavier and outright better Clan counterpart shoved down its throat recently.
We further got Phoenixhawk, Rifleman, Archer and Cyclops on IS side wich are either mediocre, just nice to have, or outright terrible non competitive, or even unplayable in FP matches due to either tonnage or survivability.

Clans on the other side got Viper, Huntsman, Linebacker, Nightgyr and Kodiak.
Even with the Viper being just an oversized scout it is still stronger and more survivable than the Phoenixhawk due to its lower profile, smaler silhuette and high mounted torso weapons.
Mech by mech, ton by ton everyone of the new Clan mechs where simply better implemented into the game.

The PXH f.e. should be a tall, lith mech not some broadshouldered knight.
The Night Gyr should be a flattchested broad mech .... well see what I mean ?

Starting with the basic design in MWO the IS mechs got their inherent weaknesses boosted and their strengths due to game restrictions outright neutered or simply ignored.

The PXH should be an extremely elusive mech due to JJs and its very nimble arms. Well... arms are not usable in MWO and JJs or better hoverjets have seen better days.

The Archer should be an extremely durable missile mech with the perk of beeing absolutely awsome in hand to hand combat.
UUUUps sorry no melee. No special ammo for IS missiles.

The Rifleman should have rotateable arms and beeing able to fire backwards in addition to beeing extremely accurate...well guess what ?
No rearview and instant convergence because f..you.

All this little speacialty perks or strengths are things known to be absent with all but most clan omnimechs and in a boardgame they are hard to translate. Well now that should be the advantage of an computer game...well should be.

The problem with PGIs MWO is over simplyfication some things do blend in with that minimum viable content sh.. others are killed by it.

The IS lives and dies by its individuality...its non Omni.

Clans ... well you get the picture.

Edited by The Basilisk, 19 December 2016 - 08:59 AM.

[Kuaron]

Not sure it is more difficult to translate in a board game, where one only has to invent some rules, than in a computer game, where one actually has to know how to properly code stuff.

But yes.

[BearFlag]

nehebkau, on 19 December 2016 - 05:41 AM, said:

Anyone else of the opinion that the "its hardcore mode/get gud/there is no matchmaker/no noobs/Nothing-to-see-here-move-along" needs to be shelved in favour of not turning 4.1 into the wasteland that V3 was?

"Two Years in No Man's Land." A book by B. A. Lance.

PGI refuses impose balance through a matchmaker. And they refuse to make FW strictly comp. The former drove away 90% of the population is less than 30 days, Dec. 2014. The latter would leave the comp apologists with no games.

Decision time, PGI. Nah, it's good for another year.

Edited by BearFlag, 19 December 2016 - 09:21 AM.

[A Shoddy Rental Mech]

The Basilisk, on 19 December 2016 - 08:54 AM, said:

Lets take a more refined look on what happend over the year:

You forgot about P.G.I.'s continual use of The Nerf Bat on I.S. mechs.
Not to mention buffs to the clans

The Nerf Bat said:

Posted 12 November 2016 - 02:52 AM
PGI has been whacking the I.S. with The Nerf Bat ever since that glorious 2 month time period between Tukayyid 2 (which the clans won even with a 20 ton advantage) and the nerf hammer hitting in February. You know, the one time the I.S. mechs actually had an advantage over the clan mechs. The I.S. mechs have been nerfed to the point that mercs won't even touch them.

After 7 or 8 whacks at the I.S. PGI finally addresses the "overperforming" Kodiak and Arctic cheetah. Long overdo most would say.

Touch the precious clan mechs once with the nerfbat, and you people lose your minds

The Nerf Bat, on 19 October 2016 - 11:57 PM, said:

Any I.S. mech that is viable for faction warfare must be whacked by The Nerf Bat.

Top tier I.S. mechs have already been whacked by The Nerf Bat including the Blackjack, Catapult, Warhammer, Maurader, Battlemaster, and Black Knight.

The Feb 20 patch was when the the Nerf Hammer hit.

PATCH NOTES - 1.4.53 - 16-FEB-2016
https://mwomercs.com...-1453-16feb2016

"All remaining negative/detrimental Weapon Quirks on Clan 'Mechs have been removed. A small amount of negative Armor and Turn Quirks remain for certain variants.
• All Inner Sphere Energy Range Quirks are now set at 10% (if present)."

In that patch they whacked the Blackjack with the nerf bat. On top of that the found a buff bat to hit the clan targeting computers. Just look at all the green(buffs) on the PDF of all Clan Quirk changes here .

Anything that was competitive was whacked. Patch after patch after patch.

April
Black Knight gets whacked
http://mwomercs.com/...rk%20Values.pdf

June
Black Knight gets whacked again
http://static.mwomer...006-21-2016.pdf

Resize I.S. mechs get big

July
Blackjack Catapult Warhammer Maurader Battlemaster
http://static.mwomer...rk%20Values.pdf

whack whack whack whack whack



Now we move onto the 2nd tier.

• Enforcer ENF-5P: UAC Jam Chance increased to -20% (from -30%).
• JagerMech JM6-DD: UAC Jam Chance increased to -20% (from -30%).

May or may not have copied some of this from the Faction warfare section

[Volkodav]

Need IS omnimechs/

[FallingAce]

xX PUG Xx, on 19 December 2016 - 08:52 AM, said:

http://s1310.photobu...45nol9.jpg.html

A screenshot from around midnight on Friday GMT I believe.

We aren't particularly skilled but we do TRY to play as a team and as you can see, we get it right most of the time. Map knowledge, knowing which 'Mechs/builds work on that map and getting your team to play as one can go a long way against 80-85% of the teams out there. The top flight guys'n'gals are good regardless of what they pilot, so the extra tonnage may help you keep the scores closer but it's a 1 in 5 chance of winning really.

I'm going to keep saying it: if you group up with competent pilots and use decent builds, then you stand a good chance of winning. If you drop solo and/or use "Lore" or poorly thought out builds, you stand good chance of being pounded into the dirt, set on fire, hog tied and thrown in lava......with diamond armoured sharks...... that have lasers for eyes. Yep it'll go badly.

There are a LOT of knowledgable players out there that can teach you how to build 'Mechs, get you into drop groups and get you winning more than losing. Seek out the faction TS addresses, get on there and talk to people: knowledge is power.

Oh and it sounds like the tonnage will keep moving until PGI is happy the populations are closer to parity, so don't get comfortable with that bonus

Your picture is a little fuzzy.
Here's a better, more recent one.

[nehebkau]

xWiredx, on 19 December 2016 - 08:23 AM, said:

I think it's pretty clear that the tonnage increase for IS is better utilized the higher skill level the pilot is and in relation to the organization of the team. A green IS pug will not make good use of that extra tonnage compared to a skilled player, but also the greater the synergy the team has as a whole the better that tonnage will be utilized as well.

So let's see a lot more statistics than just W/L before we make any conclusions here.

You know, I think I agree with you.... well that pretty much disembowels tonnage as a balance tool.