50 replies to this topic

[ingramli]

Grinster, on 21 December 2016 - 11:21 PM, said:

Works fine for me. 50.0 tons and no chance of putting the 0.5 tons in the cockpit.

Ok, so i just put the screenshot here. The build tool max armor for right arm is 32, while i got 48 max in game, strange enough.

Edited by ingramli, 21 December 2016 - 11:53 PM.

[Koniving]

It says you can add 16 more to the right arm.

Yeah this is because mwo changed its armor quirk from being always in there to it just costing a little less weight than it should overall.

The tool has yet to include this as it isn't something that could auto update with the game's xml files.

16 points is 1/2 ton so technically in game the Centurion is 50.5 tons when it says 50 tons. Yay quirks.

Edited by Koniving, 22 December 2016 - 12:16 AM.

[IraqiWalker]

Sovetskii Soyuz, on 21 December 2016 - 10:53 PM, said:

Why is ECM important?

Because it will add to your survivability, and an Mech equipped with an ECM will be focused less then others. Also, because you are new player, you still don't have equipment that will protect you against lock-on weapons (mostly LRMs - Long Range Missiles). Instead, your ECM will keep you protected against LRMs, and hide your Mech for longer (ECM equipped Mech can be locked-on at the 400m distance, while regular Mech can be locked-on on 800m distance).

I can agree with most of your post, but I (notice the emphasis that this is just my personal opinion) view this point as the most dangerous one.

One of the most harmful things you can do to a new player is get them an ECM mech while they are still learning.

ECM encourages horrible piloting practices, and decreases the emphasis on situational awareness. For a new player it will breed bad piloting skill, and a dependency on the device. Making their transition into a non-ECM mech (especially since they are very likely in a higher bracket by then) an absolute nightmare.

You want new pilots to learn how to navigate terrain, and pay attention to their surroundings, early in their careers. ECM stunts all of that.

[Sovetskii Soyuz]

IraqiWalker, on 22 December 2016 - 12:25 AM, said:

I can agree with most of your post, but I (notice the emphasis that this is just my personal opinion) view this point as the most dangerous one.

One of the most harmful things you can do to a new player is get them an ECM mech while they are still learning.

You want new pilots to learn how to navigate terrain, and pay attention to their surroundings, early in their careers. ECM stunts all of that.

I think that a new player has enough learning to do besides how to traverse the terrain correctly. After he learns how to aim his weapons and where, which weapon has what effect, where on the map to go, what equipment does what, how to move around his team, how to communicate with his team, etc - then in his second Mech, he can start learning how to move around the map, using the terrain to his advantage.

First Mech should be forgiving enough to provide enough time for new pilot to learn. New pilots make mistakes, and they should survive long enough to learn from them.

ingramli, on 21 December 2016 - 11:51 PM, said:

Ok, so i just put the screenshot here. The build tool max armor for right arm is 32, while i got 48 max in game, strange enough.

If I were you i would replace that LRM 20 and SRM 6, and take 3x LRM 10 + Artemis instead. Then I would use those LRM 10s as my primary weapons and those Medium Lasers as backup/self-defense weapons. With a single LRM 20, you will not be that good long range support (because of longer cool down of LRM 20 compared to LRM 10), and an single SRM 6 will not save you if your Medium Lasers couldn't. I would also replace that AMS with an Beagle Active Probe, to speed up lock-on time (which is important for long range support).



Anyway, back to my original post.

I would suggest that you make a new account, finish the first 25 battles in a trial Mech (so you could get all the Cadet bonus C-bill rewards), and then with those C-bills buy yourself one Hellbringer HBR-Prime. Cadet bonus should get you around 20 million C-bills when you complete your first 25 battles, and Hellbringer costs around 12 milion C-bills, so after purchasing Hellbringer, there should be enough C-bills left for you to equip it the way you want.

Because it is an OmniMech it doesn't matter which Hellbringer chassis you buy, because you can always buy Omnipods from other Hellbringer variants. But I suggested HBR-Prime because it already has an ECM in the left torso.

For your first build I would suggest that you watch this video, because it offers some good advices. You should also try to make similar build with your Hellbringer.

https://youtu.be/SEaCJR5bong

Kanajashi has some good tutorial videos too, so it would be good for you to watch them:

https://youtu.be/RGPYOrhEFtg

As for your Centurion CN9-A [NCIX], you can always redeem the same code on your new account, and have it on your new account too.

Here is the redeem code:

NCIXMECH

And here is the code redeem page:

https://mwomercs.com/profile/redeem

But it's your choice in the end.

Edited by Sovetskii Soyuz, 22 December 2016 - 01:21 AM.

[ingramli]

Sovetskii Soyuz, on 22 December 2016 - 01:15 AM, said:

I think that a new player has enough learning to do besides how to traverse the terrain correctly. After he learns how to aim his weapons and where, which weapon has what effect, where on the map to go, what equipment does what, how to move around his team, how to communicate with his team, etc - then in his second Mech, he can start learning how to move around the map, using the terrain to his advantage.

First Mech should be forgiving enough to provide enough time for new pilot to learn. New pilots make mistakes, and they should survive long enough to learn from them.




If I were you i would replace that LRM 20 and SRM 6, and take 3x LRM 10 + Artemis instead. Then I would use those LRM 10s as my primary weapons and those Medium Lasers as backup/self-defense weapons. With a single LRM 20, you will not be that good long range support (because of longer cool down of LRM 20 compared to LRM 10), and an single SRM 6 will not save you if your Medium Lasers couldn't. I would also replace that AMS with an Beagle Active Probe, to speed up lock-on time (which is important for long range support).



Anyway, back to my original post.

I would suggest that you make a new account, finish the first 25 battles in a trial Mech (so you could get all the Cadet bonus C-bill rewards), and then with those C-bills buy yourself one Hellbringer HBR-Prime. Cadet bonus should get you around 20 million C-bills when you complete your first 25 battles, and Hellbringer costs around 12 milion C-bills, so after purchasing Hellbringer, there should be enough C-bills left for you to equip it the way you want.

Because it is an OmniMech it doesn't matter which Hellbringer chassis you buy, because you can always buy Omnipods from other Hellbringer variants. But I suggested HBR-Prime because it already has an ECM in the left torso.

For your first build I would suggest that you watch this video, because it offers some good advices. You should also try to make similar build with your Hellbringer.

https://youtu.be/SEaCJR5bong

Kanajashi has some good tutorial videos too, so it would be good for you to watch them:

https://youtu.be/RGPYOrhEFtg

As for your Centurion CN9-A [NCIX], you can always redeem the same code on your new account, and have it on your new account too.

Here is the redeem code:

NCIXMECH

And here is the code redeem page:

https://mwomercs.com/profile/redeem

But it's your choice in the end.

3 LRM10 + Artemis on Centurion cost 18 tons and you need tonnage for extra ammo, if you do so you will end up having to give up armor, and then you change the AMS to BAP, no defense to incoming missiles whatsoever, no armor, no AMS, once you get targeted by a LRM opponent and you are done.

[jss78]

Tesunie, on 21 December 2016 - 08:01 PM, said:

If you are worried about not getting into range, then outfit for more mid to long range. I have two Crabs (27 and 27B) set up with STD engines and 3 ERLLs (and a med laser in the head, but that's my choice). I can engage at any range with those mechs. I have it placed in three weapon groups, the arm lasers, the CT ERLL and then the head ML. This lets me stagger my shots when I start to get a little toasty. With those Crabs, I can poke at long ranges, and then duck behind cover. All while still moving at really reasonable speeds.

I have an identical build in my CRB-27B, and I agree it'd be a nice 'mech for a beginner. Excellent ranged support, and STD-engined Crabs are just super survivable and forgiving. I always break out mine when there's one of those events where you have to meet a minimum match score requirement, because they never let you down.

Another favourite is the CRB-27 which I currently run with STD-260, 2xLL, 3xML, 2xAMS. Lovely 'mech for escorting heavier 'mechs with, while focusing fire with them and providing an AMS bubble.

While the current quirk system is in place, the earlier build with ERLLs should be probably run on the CRB-27B, because it gets that incredibly important ERLL heat quirk.

Edited by jss78, 22 December 2016 - 01:38 AM.

[ingramli]

This one may be better by specialize in LRMs, 2 LRM15 have no heat penalty compare to 3 LRM10, and i still get the full armor by lowering the engine rating, i have not make up my mind yet because it cost me more than 1M C-Bills for the changes.....

[Leone]

If I may make an observation, most of that's the Engine. You could, mayhaps, cheapen things up a bit by getting a hunchback, and ripping out the stock engine for your Centurion. You'd still be a tonne over, true, but perhaps clearing out the beagle active probe would give you the tonnage you need? Just food for thought.

~Leone

[Koniving]

I imagine the triple Lrm 10 drops Artemis... As the additional accuracy isn't needed as smaller launchers spread less.
That cuts it by 3 tons which you then have your original 5 tons dedicated to missiles plus 3 more tons... For an insane 8 tons that you couldn't hope to use.


Far as heat penalties...Lrm 90

Chain fire and don't tap too fast.

[Koniving]

Anyway far as Inner Sphere versus Clan in terms of brief lore...

This video sums it up quick and entertainingly.

Kerensky's followers return as the Clans.

[Sovetskii Soyuz]

ingramli, on 22 December 2016 - 01:34 AM, said:

3 LRM10 + Artemis on Centurion cost 18 tons and you need tonnage for extra ammo, if you do so you will end up having to give up armor, and then you change the AMS to BAP, no defense to incoming missiles whatsoever, no armor, no AMS, once you get targeted by a LRM opponent and you are done.

Firstly, a single AMS is a poor protection against LRMs. It can shoot down only a quarter of incoming missiles, and that means that LRMs will still kill you, just a bit slower. And on top of that AMS is consuming a lot of ammo, so that 1 ton of AMS ammo will not last long. After it spends it's ammo, AMS just becomes dead weight. Best protection against LRMs is cover - use cover and you don't need AMS.

Only Mechs that should mount AMS are Mechs that have enough space and tonnage, so you dont sacrifice nothing more important with it. Other then those, only other Mechs that should mount AMS are Mechs with viable AMS builds (Kit Fox can mount 3x AMS, and with those he can be actually good anti-missile Mech, capable of shooting down most of incoming missiles).

ingramli, on 22 December 2016 - 01:52 AM, said:

This one may be better by specialize in LRMs, 2 LRM15 have no heat penalty compare to 3 LRM10, and i still get the full armor by lowering the engine rating, i have not make up my mind yet because it cost me more than 1M C-Bills for the changes.....

Three LRM 10 are still better then two LRM 15, because LRM 10 has better reload and tighter missile spread. Check this build out:

CN9-A(NCIX)

This way I mounted 3x LRM 10 + Artemis with 4 tons of ammo, 2 Medium Lasers and Beagle Active Probe, WITHOUT lowering the engine rating. I only stripped some armor of the arms (you don't need armor on the arms because you have nothing mounted in them) and a bit from legs. This way you are fast and pack a punch.

But if you lower the engine rating, then you can have maximum armor (as I said - I would rather keep the engine then useless armor on the arms, but it's your choice) and you can mount more LRM ammo (now this can be worthy of lowering engine rating for - but only if you feel that 4 tons of ammo is not enough for you) and some heat sinks (to lower the amount of heat your Mech is building up).

As for the extra heat produced by the 3x LRM 10, you should mitigate this by chain-firing LRMs (shooting your LRMs one by one). That way you also spend less ammo and provide constant fire on the target.

Edited by Sovetskii Soyuz, 22 December 2016 - 04:07 AM.

[Tesunie]

jss78, on 22 December 2016 - 01:36 AM, said:

I have an identical build in my CRB-27B, and I agree it'd be a nice 'mech for a beginner. Excellent ranged support, and STD-engined Crabs are just super survivable and forgiving. I always break out mine when there's one of those events where you have to meet a minimum match score requirement, because they never let you down.

Another favourite is the CRB-27 which I currently run with STD-260, 2xLL, 3xML, 2xAMS. Lovely 'mech for escorting heavier 'mechs with, while focusing fire with them and providing an AMS bubble.

While the current quirk system is in place, the earlier build with ERLLs should be probably run on the CRB-27B, because it gets that incredibly important ERLL heat quirk.

Don't forget the range bonuses that the 27 has. I use that mech to out range the long range Clan builds. Then again, your build looks nice.

I have the 2 LL and 3 ML build on my Crab 20, with max XL engine. 120 KPH in a medium seems to send people into shock. A lot of fun to play, but not a build I'd suggest for a new player. It's fast enough to get into trouble, but not always fast enough to get back out of trouble. And XL engine in a Crab isn't exactly new player friendly as well. You really have to know how to roll your damage.

[ingramli]

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...5fd391cb54eb655

quite comfortable with this one and i guess i will settle down for some time, since i am not a big fan of LRM after all (seems to be quite hard to bring out its full potential), will train my aiming skills using the ERLL for the time being.

Edited by ingramli, 22 December 2016 - 08:03 AM.

[Metus regem]

ingramli, on 21 December 2016 - 06:48 PM, said:

I have played 2 accounts already, one with a Timberwolf, and another one with a free Centurion (with CB bonus) spending all the funds customizing (mostly on different engines), but seems neither is ideal for new player to learn,

Tibmerwolf
for timberwolf, I can stay alive somehow, but people said it is too good to tolerate errors or bad habits, not suitable for new player;


Centurion
I simply find riding it a disaster, i armed with short range weapons (mostly SRMs), but in most game the majority play long ranged, i have nothing to(can) do but hiding behind the trench or i will just die in matter of seconds. Even if i get a chance to come close to fire my arms, no matter how i twist my torso (yes i have read post to say it is important skill to stay alive longer), i still get my CT blown out easily, is it something to do with the revised (nerfed) hitbox? Or is it just my fault? Either way i am not sure is it the correct way to learning (doing nothing behind the trench most of the time).

Should i give up the Centurion and learn on a different mech?Advise is appreciated.

The Timber Wolf really is a poor platform for learning in, as it's combination of decent hit boxes and large engine lets it take decent hit boxes and make them good, it's also a mech that can tolerate poor habits, meaning it doesn't force you to learn good play habits.

As for the Centurion, it's actually a good learning chassis, dispite what some people will tell you. It has good hit boxes, she responds well with either a standard engine or an XL engine. The Centurion family really does stress the importance of learning how to torso twist to spread damage, due to her hit boxes she is actually very good at doing it, both teaching how and making effective use of doing so.

CN9-A(NCIX)

The above build is a decent teacher for how to tank damage, using the entire left side to shield the rest of the mech.

CN9-A(NCIX)

The above build will teach you all three weapon types, as well as how to effectively spread damage through torso twisting, as well as let you use a shielding arm (LA).

CN9-A(NCIX)

The above build is the build I actually use on my CN9-A (NCIX), it will not be a game changer, but it does do solid for a basic line trooper mech.


Now as to good trainer mechs:

Hunchback:

4G -- this is a mech that will teach you how to put your shots on target, as it uses a very large, and very short ranged weapon system, the AC/20. This mech will also teach you about sheilding sides, but less so than the Centurion, due to weapon placements on the Hunchback.

Centurion:

I covered this already.

Locust:

I know, the lightest mech in the game right... thing is, no mech better teaches piloting skills and map knowledge like a Locust, those are two of the most important skills to get down in MWO, know the maps and know how to get around them efficiently and sneakily. I will not lie though, the Locust will be frustrating, you will die a lot, but you will be a better pilot for it.


Dragon:

The quintessential Medium mech in a Heavy mech's body, due to some less then fantastic hit boxes, she needs good piloting skills to avoid getting killed, as well as needing good gunnery skills to make the most of her limited hard points. This mech family will actually teach you how to make the most out of a mech with bad hit boxes.


Now I will be blunt, every mech family I listed there, are not the "meta" or best mechs in the game, but getting down the skills they have to teach will be the difference between being an average player to a good player. As none of those mechs can make up for bad gunnery or bad piloting.

[Kerafyrm]

I agree with the HBR chassis as said in Sovetskii Soyuz's post.

Don't start with Gauss Vomit builds. Start at laser vomit, preferably 2 Large pulse and 3 Med laser so you don’t have to worry too much about heat management. Laser vomit builds are much easier to adjust and alter a shot. As you get a better understanding of the maps/gameplay, you can try out other builds. HBR can do many things very well, gauss vom, UAC20+ML, SRM+SPL, UAC5+ML, ERLL, all while hiding in ECM.


Just be careful as you play more and move up in tiers. People will go after your left torso as soon as they see you in this mech.



As for the CN. it’s a brawler mech that packs average punch (maybe below average now that I think about it). In a pug queue, bringing a brawler is like a gamble. How well you do will depend on your team and the enemy team. Your best bet with any brawler, especially the CN, is to try and sit out the beginning skirmishes at range and just follow heavy/assault lance around. Take care of anybody that comes in range, stay healthy and don’t chase. (During an engagement, people tend to not target CNs as they are usually not that high on the threat list if you are with heavier mechs.) If you managed to stay healthy near mid game and the death/damage on both teams are similar you should do a lot better. The engagements should be around the brawling distance by then and the mechs should be pretty damaged for you to pick off.

Edited by Kerafyrm, 22 December 2016 - 09:39 AM.

[InspectorG]

Tesunie, on 21 December 2016 - 08:12 PM, said:

LRMs have a bed reputation for most people. Far worse than they deserve. It's often because people tend to play them in one of the lease efficient manners available. This doesn't mean you must use them, but don't exclude them from your builds because someone said it's a bad weapon. I suggest you give every weapon a try at some point. See how they all work, and find what works for you.

I have to disagree.

LRMs dont teach aim, positioning, how to push, how to peek, defensive techniques.

Problem is new players use LRMs vs other newbs, it can be easy mode as long as there is a decent player getting locks
and the enemy newbs get scared and fold under the LRM attack.

Newbs level up via LRMS.

Newbs face decent vets and get rolled. WHY? They didnt build the needed skills and didnt learn how MWO 'works' and why a team of LRM boats who used to roll people gets dropped by 3-4 players who can poke, focus STs, and equip Radar Dep to help in sidestepping LRMs.

Then the whole 'we lost cuz you guys didnt hold locks' and the counter 'get your own locks with TAG and risk some of ur own armor, scrub' demorallizing banter while my Locust feasts on rearcore potato.

To OP,

Dont start in a medium, start in a Heavy. Timberwolf is fine and versatile. You dont need a new account. Heavies are the ideal mix of mobility/Armor/Guns. Mediums are a bit under-powered currently and rely on mobility and knowing how to flank/time enemy cooldowns. There is a reason the que is typically 30% Heavy as the other classes vary.


Git Good with lazervomit.
Git gud with Dakka
Git gud with Brawling.
Save sniping for later, requires too many good habits for a newb.

[Mechwarrior4670152]

Smurfy isn't working very well for me, so I cannot link the build, but I ran my CN9-A(NCIX) with a Gauss rifle and MPL.

Firepower was a little low (and Gauss can be a pain to use) but if you run it as an escort to the heavier hitters, it can run very well (and encourages using that shield arm to protect your Gauss)

[Tesunie]

InspectorG, on 22 December 2016 - 04:27 PM, said:

I have to disagree.

LRMs dont teach aim, positioning, how to push, how to peek, defensive techniques.

Here is the difference between what I recommend, and what people tend to do. I don't recommend to ever boat LRMs, for many of the given reasons you have stated. However, have a mixed build and LRMs can work really well to learn with. You have LRMs to ease your way into the game, and then some other weapon system to get direct fire experience with. I'm also only suggesting to explore them, not to stick with them forever.

However, depending upon how they are used, LRMs can teach you positioning, peeking and defensive tactics. It does depend upon how they are being played, how focused the build is, and if one sticks with the team and on the front line getting their own locks. I've always used and done well with a hybrid LRM build, and seen as so many people think I was boating them, I've also surprised a lot of people.

The concept is to at least learn the weapon system and how it works. Then explore the other weapons in the game. I find it easier to counter LRMs because I know how they work. One of the reasons I suggest some LRM play for new players, to learn how the system works and thus how to avoid it yourself.


My Griffin 3M probably shows what I mean rather well, as well as my Hunchback 4J and 4SP. I will state that the Hunchbacks have remained almost unchanged since I started playing this game (all I've added in was the head TAG when ECM came out), and it has been a while since I played that Griffin (though it should work better now with the buff to large launchers). Neither one of those mechs are designed to LRM from the safety of 800-1000m behind cover. They are designed to support as they close in, and then stick around the 250-180m ranges if possible.

There is a reason I mentioned not to be sitting out back waiting for the team to get locks for you. Of course, we are each entitled to our opinion here, I just wanted to make sure my reasons for the suggestion was clear and what I intended behind it.

[Jamico]

As a new player, I will say what I am doing to learn the game. I chose the Orion as my first mech because it has balanced hard points. I know, the Orion is hardly the best mech in the game, but this won't be my end game mech. The Orion uses all three weapon types, and this enables a noob like myself to experiment with all kinds of different creations. For example, the stats on gauss rifles are awesome. I tried them out and they don't work for me (yet). I wasn't impressed with the PPC...until I used it. many players will tell you that a mech/build is awesome...because it works for them. Maybe it also works for most players. But you and I could be "that guy" who is only good with that weird mech/build that no one else likes. So, I suggest that your first mech is one that allows you to experiment and learn. Your second mech, however, should be the monster

[Tesunie]

Jamico, on 24 December 2016 - 08:50 AM, said:

The Orion uses all three weapon types, and this enables a newb like myself to experiment with all kinds of different creations.

Fixed that for you.
Newbs are "newbies". Noobs are... well... something else.