26 replies to this topic

[dario03]

Yeonne Greene, on 23 December 2016 - 06:23 PM, said:

I want specific chassis. I want to know which ones you think are too agile so I can have a frame of reference for their place in the whole game.

Like, the Marauder is 15%, and that's the reduced version. It was, IMHO, a much better 'Mech back when it was smaller and had 25% turn and 35% yaw; I can manage it with an XL today, but it's more work now than it was then and it's leaning harder on the structure buffs than it used to.

It depends, and like I said I would want other quirks changed too. Also I'm talking about bringing heavies average down as a whole, not just specific mechs. 15% on just accel is fine, even 30% could be fine if it doesn't have much else. But heavy mechs that have 30%+ on accel, decel, turn rate, torso twist rate, is to much. A extreme example would be the Summoner D CT which has
70% accel/decel
5% reverse speed
35% turn rate
5% speed modifier
+9 torso twist range
40% torso twist speed
plus you can get more from the other omnipods or doing a full set. And it has weapon and structure quirks too.

Edited by dario03, 23 December 2016 - 07:35 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

dario03, on 23 December 2016 - 07:33 PM, said:

It depends, and like I said I would want other quirks changed too. Also I'm talking about bringing heavies average down as a whole, not just specific mechs. 15% on just accel is fine, even 30% could be fine if it doesn't have much else. But heavy mechs that have 30%+ on accel, decel, turn rate, torso twist rate, is to much. A extreme example would be the Summoner D CT which has
70% accel/decel
5% reverse speed
35% turn rate
5% speed modifier
+9 torso twist range
40% torso twist speed
plus you can get more from the other omnipods or doing a full set. And it has weapon and structure quirks too.

Okay, so the SMN-D could maybe use an agility nerf. On the other hand, it's a g*ddamn Summoner. Unless it's a Streak Boat, it's not what I would classify as an eminent threat to Lights. Yes, a crack shot with PPCs can end your run, but a crack Light can also end his by legging him. Or sitting out at range with a rapid-fire ERLL and poking him to death as he struggles to land a hit at that range. I would say it's not a compelling example.

Do you have another one? Don't say Linebacker, that would be a terrible example, too, because agility is its specific weapon since it doesn't bring the Big Guns like the TBR or NTG.

[dario03]

Yeonne Greene, on 23 December 2016 - 07:53 PM, said:

Okay, so the SMN-D could maybe use an agility nerf. On the other hand, it's a g*ddamn Summoner. Unless it's a Streak Boat, it's not what I would classify as an eminent threat to Lights. Yes, a crack shot with PPCs can end your run, but a crack Light can also end his by legging him. Or sitting out at range with a rapid-fire ERLL and poking him to death as he struggles to land a hit at that range. I would say it's not a compelling example.

Do you have another one? Don't say Linebacker, that would be a terrible example, too, because agility is its specific weapon since it doesn't bring the Big Guns like the TBR or NTG.

Again I'm talking balance as a whole. The heavy doesn't need to be a anti light heavy, the issue is that even if a mech is made without fighting lights in mind a lot of them can do it very well because a lot of them have such big agility quirks along with tons of other quirks. Heavies and assaults typically have a lot of armor, a lot of weapons, plenty of ammo, heatsinks, basically everything but speed and agility. However with these quirks the agility weakness is no longer there or a lot of heavies get a bunch of big quirks to their strengths and excel at those even more. Just look at the quirk list on heavies, tons of them have super big quirks.
Meanwhile a lot of lights that would need quirks just to compete with non quirked heavies get no where near as good as quirks. Their weaknesses are still there.
Yeah, some get quirks but plenty don't. For example we can go back to the Firestarter which got a lot bigger in the rescale.
Firestarter H
5% ML heatgen
5% energy heatgen
15% flamer range
And thats it, no agility, no structure, just that.
The Summoner D actually also beats that too, since it gets 10% energy heatgen. Heck you could probably get all the Summoner D quirks I mentioned while getting 15% energy range if you set the pods right. Or just grab any IS heavy, I'm pretty sure everyone of them has quirks that are far beyond what the Firestarter has right now. And the few heavies that don't have big quirks still far outshine the Firestarter.

Edited by dario03, 24 December 2016 - 12:50 AM.

[adamts01]

dario03, on 23 December 2016 - 10:50 AM, said:

Lights would probably always need a bit of a boost but they could do a few things to lessen the gap.

Not really. Look at how agility quirks are placed. Mechs with small motors are given agility, and now they're handed out to mechs that are too big for their own good (Jenner). Agility and acceleration should be closer tied to tonnage than engine size, problem solved.

dario03, on 23 December 2016 - 10:50 AM, said:

-Remove the 40kph legged speed limit.

I guess, but this is only a bandaid because lights need a universal buff after the re-size screwup.

dario03, on 23 December 2016 - 10:50 AM, said:

-Better jump jets. Helpful for getting out of tough spots and jumping the enemy without throwing a lot of weight and crits to the jump jets.

YES, for all mechs. Damn you PGI. Poptarts were annoying, but you implemented reticle shake which pretty much quelled things. Give us real jump jets. And if poptarts become a problem, then extend a little reticle shake any time your mech is airborn, as well as using jets.

JediPanther, on 23 December 2016 - 10:50 AM, said:

Compare clan lights vs is lights for your self. Try playing them if you really want to know how they work then imagine them quirk less then decide if you'd really want to play that quirk less mech or say **** it and go up to the heavier mechs. Lights are already the least played mech class in game. The only time you see them above six percent are when there is a light focused event or the once every two and a half years new light mech added to the game. Would you wait two and a half years for a new mech? More importantly would you buy it with real money or wait half a year for cbill-ing them?

Check the quirks list and decide is,clan or neither have the advantage just from quirks:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ght_innersphere or http://mwo.smurfy-ne...irks_light_clan

I play all lights, and my favorite is by far the Locust, it's the only true light in my opinion. I like the PPC Adder, because of quirks, but it's not a real light. The Cheetah is a decent medium mech. Jenners are crappy mediums. The MLX would be good if that CAP were removed and that tonnage used on a bigger motor. They're all sad really. The light nerf was one of the bigger mistakes PGI has made.

[dario03]

adamts01, on 24 December 2016 - 12:55 AM, said:

I guess, but this is only a bandaid because lights need a universal buff after the re-size screwup.

Its a little thing, but a bunch of little buffs could go a long way.

[Y E O N N E]

dario03, on 24 December 2016 - 12:31 AM, said:

Again I'm talking balance as a whole. The heavy doesn't need to be a anti light heavy, the issue is that even if a mech is made without fighting lights in mind a lot of them can do it very well because a lot of them have such big agility quirks along with tons of other quirks. Heavies and assaults typically have a lot of armor, a lot of weapons, plenty of ammo, heatsinks, basically everything but speed and agility. However with these quirks the agility weakness is no longer there or a lot of heavies get a bunch of big quirks to their strengths and excel at those even more. Just look at the quirk list on heavies, tons of them have super big quirks.
Meanwhile a lot of lights that would need quirks just to compete with non quirked heavies get no where near as good as quirks. Their weaknesses are still there.
Yeah, some get quirks but plenty don't. For example we can go back to the Firestarter which got a lot bigger in the rescale.
Firestarter H
5% ML heatgen
5% energy heatgen
15% flamer range
And thats it, no agility, no structure, just that.
The Summoner D actually also beats that too, since it gets 10% energy heatgen. Heck you could probably get all the Summoner D quirks I mentioned while getting 15% energy range if you set the pods right. Or just grab any IS heavy, I'm pretty sure everyone of them has quirks that are far beyond what the Firestarter has right now. And the few heavies that don't have big quirks still far outshine the Firestarter.

Most of the quirks I see on Heavies are on IS ones and they are there to either help preserve an XL or let you not be helpless running a STD against 'Mechs with cXL.

I don't disagree that other Lights need agility buffs, I just don't see many Heavies that need nerfed on that front. That would just open them up to eating laser volleys much easier.

[dario03]

Yeonne Greene, on 24 December 2016 - 01:22 AM, said:

Most of the quirks I see on Heavies are on IS ones and they are there to either help preserve an XL or let you not be helpless running a STD against 'Mechs with cXL.

I don't disagree that other Lights need agility buffs, I just don't see many Heavies that need nerfed on that front. That would just open them up to eating laser volleys much easier.

Well like I said, I wouldn't just be changing the agility quirks. Would change a lot of the quirks to bring down the average power of heavies because it isn't just heavy vs heavy, its bigs vs smalls. Could also just move some of those to structure and if Clan/IS balance is to far off could nerf quirks and if need be the base stats of Clan stuff.
Or just go quirk crazy with the lights. I'm fine either way, I'm just not fine with so many heavies having tons of quirks in almost every category while mechs like the Firestarter have basically nothing. And the Firestarter is ISXL and if legged is basically dead.