33 replies to this topic

[Deathlike]

Pjwned, on 23 December 2016 - 02:33 PM, said:

Why should players give positive feedback on something that's been halfassed for years now? PGI never tried to give the players anything actually good for community warfare, even after months of prolonged complaints about how & why it was a disappointment and a huge amount of suggestions on how to fix it, and PGI didn't care.

PGI didn't do anything worth a **** to fix the mode, they just sat on their *** to **** out more mech packs, and they couldn't even be bothered to actually accomplish anything with their "great mech rebalance" in the meantime either; I'm still waiting for all the things Paul said in this post to actually happen.

So what happened? People just stopped caring and they quit. I saw this happen personally since I was in a small, casual unit, everybody was pretty hype to see community warfare come out, and when we found that it was a piss poor disaster with terrible maps then everybody in the unit just stopped playing.

It's not that the players are not worth the work, it's that PGI isn't worth the players because they don't do jack ****.

Welcome to MWO.

HauptmanT, on 23 December 2016 - 03:28 PM, said:

So much salt.

Still a fun game yo. Shaddup and go play some matches. Or give War Thunder a go if you're just that burnt.

Swear to god I'll throttle the next person who complains about IS/Clan balance. They arent supposed to be balanced... that's why the clans exist. "The big scary invaders!" However, I like the quirk system, it makes IS playable, and competitive. Personally, I would have "balanced" the two sides with c-bills. Just go ahead and quadruple the cost of clan mechs. That way you can have one shiney super cool toy, or 4 freebirth junk piles, which can still get the job done, at a quarter the price.

That sounds great for single player... just not multiplayer, especially for PvP.

Balance has to exist or people will pick the best options, and everything else be damned.

Also, balance by "economy" only benefits the Mech Romnies that already have all the C-bills. It doesn't actually help the new player (like at all). It then becomes paying for the best stuff.

Edited by Deathlike, 23 December 2016 - 03:35 PM.

[HauptmanT]

Deathlike, on 23 December 2016 - 03:33 PM, said:

Welcome to MWO.





That sounds great for single player... just not multiplayer, especially for PvP.

Balance has to exist or people will pick the best options, and everything else be damned.

Also, balance by "economy" only benefits the Mech Romnies that already have all the C-bills. It doesn't actually help the new player (like at all). It then becomes paying for the best stuff.

Uhhh, in a new game, everyone is new, and poor.

Again what I would have done is made the game complete, with clans already included at release, and just charged so much more c-bills to purchase them. There, balanced. As people made more money, they could then buy the better mechs, but guess what, so would have everyone else. Game balanced.

FW, balance with tonnage. 2 stars vs 3 lances. Done.

[The Unstoppable Puggernaut]

Out of all the iterations of FW, this one works the best IMO. Those CW maps are just rediculous. Funnelling people into corridors of death. Having QP matches with what almost feels like infinite drops is weird to get used to but wow conquest really works.

[Deathlike]

HauptmanT, on 23 December 2016 - 03:44 PM, said:

Again what I would have done is made the game complete, with clans already included at release, and just charged so much more c-bills to purchase them. There, balanced. As people made more money, they could then buy the better mechs, but guess what, so would have everyone else. Game balanced.

FW, balance with tonnage. 2 stars vs 3 lances. Done.

It does not work.

If you're saying Clans should be expensive which is "ok" as an idea, but then everyone with a brain would migrate to Clans because of said power level differences. Progression then would just be "get the best Clan mechs" at least for people that look for progression (people that are hardcore IS will just get screwed over as a consequence).

That's not really good for the game, even if you think that's a solution.

It's the equivalent to the older single player games in the MW series, where you are trained to think "bigger is better" (tonnagewise) and you start from light mechs working your way to assault mechs...

In this instance, you're just doing the same with the level of tech being used, and that's not really going to help the game.

10v12 is many levels of delusion to balance.

Edited by Deathlike, 23 December 2016 - 03:49 PM.

[HauptmanT]

Deathlike, on 23 December 2016 - 03:46 PM, said:

It does not work.

If you're saying Clans should be expensive which is "ok" as an idea, but then everyone with a brain would migrate to Clans because of said power level differences. Progression then would just be "get the best Clan mechs" at least for people that look for progression (people that are hardcore IS will just get screwed over as a consequence).

That's not really good for the game, even if you think that's a solution.

It's the equivalent to the older single player games in the MW series, where you are trained to think "bigger is better" (tonnagewise) and you start from light mechs working your way to assault mechs...

In this instance, you're just doing the same with the level of tech being used, and that's not really going to help the game.

10v12 is many levels of delusion to balance.

So then explain how it is any different now?

Everyone is playing clans. Everyone is buying clan mechs. IS FW is suffering from lack of players (thus clans suffer from longer wait times). Everything you listed as a negative IS ALREADY HAPPENING!

So no sir, my ideas are not bad because of your listed negatives.

As it is now, my IS me4ch collection is based on nosstalgia alone. Some have nice quirks, that pigeon-hole me into specific builds (and people still complain about Omni-mechs) and make them real good specific weapons carriers. Which is fine, if I want to use that weapon. Catapults and Archers make good mechs comparable to clan LRM carriers for example. They cant carry the same tube count but get the tubes firing faster, and I just pulled a few 1000 dmg games in a bone-stock Archer over the past 2 days (getting them basiced so I could elite my Tempest).

So again, the quirks are cool, but they dont balance very well, in the grand scheme. See every other FW thread currently on this forum. However an 8 mech advantage for IS would. Hell one single disco as is usually means a loss in a lot of games I play.

[Deathlike]

HauptmanT, on 23 December 2016 - 03:59 PM, said:

So then explain how it is any different now?

Everyone is playing clans. Everyone is buying clan mechs. IS FW is suffering from lack of players (thus clans suffer from longer wait times). Everything you listed as a negative IS ALREADY HAPPENING!

So no sir, my ideas are not bad because of your listed negatives.

As it is now, my IS me4ch collection is based on nosstalgia alone. Some have nice quirks, that pigeon-hole me into specific builds (and people still complain about Omni-mechs) and make them real good specific weapons carriers. Which is fine, if I want to use that weapon. Catapults and Archers make good mechs comparable to clan LRM carriers for example. They cant carry the same tube count but get the tubes firing faster, and I just pulled a few 1000 dmg games in a bone-stock Archer over the past 2 days (getting them basiced so I could elite my Tempest).

So again, the quirks are cool, but they dont balance very well, in the grand scheme. See every other FW thread currently on this forum. However an 8 mech advantage for IS would. Hell one single disco as is usually means a loss in a lot of games I play.

If balance isn't achieved, then there's no real point selling mechpacks beyond "the best stuff".

For instance, it would just be easy to suggest that people buy a Kodiak pack for $20. Easy enough since it is the most dominant mech in the game (if you're saying Lights are, you have bigger problems).

Trying to convince people to spend $20 for a Panther pack or Urbie pack... outside of nostalgia, will not bother to spend money unless there's something that's even better than the Kodiak.

All of this doesn't do much for PGI's bottom line outside of selling a certain subset of mechpacks, and everything else being the occasional nostalgia driven sales.

That's not even the point though... even if you don't buy those packs, you'd have to take a lot of time to work towards the money to buy a set of Kodiaks. While having to buy a set will not have to happen once the "skill tree" is released, it's going to take a lot of time/money/effort to achieve this.

So, inevitably the guy takes their sweet time getting there, or give up playing the game at some point. The latter is a more likely scenario given the poor NPE (new player experience) this game has.


Point being though is... anyone trying to advocate to have or keep a massive imbalance only serves to harm the game in general... because noone is going to enjoy a game that has "limited options" and going to spend the time to grind other stuff outside of the nostalgic... or buy mechpacks that don't serve to advance in the powercreep.

You might not buy a Kodiak mechpack to win in FP since it's tonnage prohibitive... but buying a Night Gyr or other wildly stronger stuff (that Clans tend to have) is more likely to get all the attention... mechpack sales will stagnate eventually (until they decide to release the MKII) due to needing powercreep (or balance to address the powercreep).

[HauptmanT]

Also the stars vs lances is not my idea. That is from Battletech. You know, the game this game is loosely based on...

Because in battletech, where tech difference isnt ofset by quirks, they found a way to balance with tonnage.

So ummm.... your argument of calling me delusional is invalid, as it worked since the release of the 3050 stuff some 35 years ago.

[HauptmanT]

Deathlike, on 23 December 2016 - 04:10 PM, said:

If balance isn't achieved, then there's no real point selling mechpacks beyond "the best stuff".

For instance, it would just be easy to suggest that people buy a Kodiak pack for $20. Easy enough since it is the most dominant mech in the game (if you're saying Lights are, you have bigger problems).

Trying to convince people to spend $20 for a Panther pack or Urbie pack... outside of nostalgia, will not bother to spend money unless there's something that's even better than the Kodiak.

All of this doesn't do much for PGI's bottom line outside of selling a certain subset of mechpacks, and everything else being the occasional nostalgia driven sales.

That's not even the point though... even if you don't buy those packs, you'd have to take a lot of time to work towards the money to buy a set of Kodiaks. While having to buy a set will not have to happen once the "skill tree" is released, it's going to take a lot of time/money/effort to achieve this.

So, inevitably the guy takes their sweet time getting there, or give up playing the game at some point. The latter is a more likely scenario given the poor NPE (new player experience) this game has.


Point being though is... anyone trying to advocate to have or keep a massive imbalance only serves to harm the game in general... because noone is going to enjoy a game that has "limited options" and going to spend the time to grind other stuff outside of the nostalgic... or buy mechpacks that don't serve to advance in the powercreep.

You might not buy a Kodiak mechpack to win in FP since it's tonnage prohibitive... but buying a Night Gyr or other wildly stronger stuff (that Clans tend to have) is more likely to get all the attention... mechpack sales will stagnate eventually (until they decide to release the MKII) due to needing powercreep (or balance to address the powercreep).

None of what you said here is wrong. But none of it has a damn thing to do with balance either.

I payed $35 for Kodiaks. Not because they are OP, but because they are friggin expensive in game. I payed $10 for a Peanut Butter too. Not because it is OP (well ok it is) but because it's friggin cool, and has no c-bill option. Would I buy a mech pack for a smaller mech, Not likely (except the Firemoth) because they are dirt cheap for c-bills. Only the Firemoth would be a "must have now!" cash purchase.

Now IS mech packs, again, not likely. They will be dirt cheap in game, even for assaults (the cost being upgrades which I can take my time on). So your argument that people will just pay $$ for clan is already happening. I am proof of that.

Now quadrupling the Clan mech cost would make PGI oodles of $$. As I already buy a mech pack for $20 instead of grinding out 40 gajillion c-bills. One hour of IRL work vs 40 hours of in game work? Hmmm which should I chose.... hmmm I dont know... Shut up and take my money!

Edit add; I also payed $50 for the Marauder IICs on release day. $50 for 6 mechs, one being a hero, was an easy investment for me... not because I thought the MadIIC was going to be some Ubermech, I just wanted some new mechs without the grind. I litterally had to spend weeks grinding for Stormcrows... and I hated it.

Grind is what I hate. After the stormcrows I bought 2 archers to basic out so I could elite my Tempest (with the c-bills earned playing the marauders), then promptly sold them off. The imbalance already exists... I already prefer clan. You'll not change that by buffing IS mechs with even better quirks. Clan is just cooler.

Edited by HauptmanT, 23 December 2016 - 04:47 PM.

[Luca M Pryde]

The only problem I am experiencing is that most of the battles are skirmish. Never played an old fashion invasion map as attacker or defender. I have played one domination match and 2 conquest.

Just played an invasion match.

I think it would be a good time to put oceanic servers in faction play now.

Edited by Luca M Pryde, 23 December 2016 - 05:38 PM.

[Pjwned]

HauptmanT, on 23 December 2016 - 03:44 PM, said:

Uhhh, in a new game, everyone is new, and poor.

Again what I would have done is made the game complete, with clans already included at release, and just charged so much more c-bills to purchase them. There, balanced. As people made more money, they could then buy the better mechs, but guess what, so would have everyone else. Game balanced.

FW, balance with tonnage. 2 stars vs 3 lances. Done.

Let's just ignore the dozens of other reasons why that's a terrible idea that you should [redacted] for posting.

If that was the balancing method for this game then nobody would buy anything but the best mechs, leaving (I can only imagine) dozens of chassis that PGI couldn't possibly monetize worth a damn, meanwhile when you don't use balancing methods only a complete ****** would consider using then wow what do you know there's a lot more mechs that people would bother buying.

If you want tiered mechs then go play single player games or World of Tanks or something; also your tastes are irredeemably garbage.

[QuantumButler]

Revis Volek, on 23 December 2016 - 09:44 AM, said:

Fight now, doesnt mean you fight now.


You cant play with groups of 11 anymore.


that is all

Yes you can, we played multiple matches as 11 mans over the past couple days, FW doesn't care about group number.

[Jon Gotham]

Johnny Z, on 23 December 2016 - 12:57 PM, said:

Everyone says this update is great because faction play is playable now and wait times are minimal. Maybe with any luck they manage to keep the good parts and add to the galactic war sim some more in the future.

Maybe more strategy gets added and planet detail and choices of which planet to attack and things like that. This is 4.1 after all, next update could be just as much of an improvement.

With the current dead mic, super solo playerbase?
"I don't have time to do that teamwork stuff in my 10 minute free time today"
I remain in hope, but the main thing that HAS to change is the player attitude or all we'll ever have is team solo match. How to you tempt people who REFUSE to be social in a multiplayer game designed around being social?

We actually have people raging about people using teamwork to beat them playing solo in an team based game....something they can rectify by using their mic and talking to other people....self fulfilling prophecy right there:)

[FallingAce]

Viktor Drake, on 23 December 2016 - 09:27 AM, said:

Guess I was looking for a way to complete the challenge by I don't know, fighting on one of the eight planets that happen to be at a different phase but it seems like there isn't one. So much for getting the Kodiak Head I guess. Great job PGI, love that you make it impossible to complete your own events.

As far as FW, yeah I guess it is better than what it was. Matches are definitely quicker to get into but just clicking a fight now button doesn't offer any real meaning to anything I am doing. I think that is alot of what is missing in FW, there just doesn't seem to be a point, especially not for a solo player like myself. I mean I can't hold territory and get no real rewards if the faction I am in actually captures a world and I can't even select what planets I want to actually fight on. Sad in that regards.

Anyway, thanks all, you answered my question.

F.W. is actually only fought on the tug of war bar. The 8 planets are a mirage. The winning side is rewarded upto 4 of the "contested" planets. Most of the time the clans just roflstomp through the quick play phases. So if your not online in the right 30 minute window, you won't get the right game mode.

Revis Volek, on 23 December 2016 - 09:44 AM, said:

You cant play with groups of 11 anymore.

This was hotfixed

Snazzy Dragon, on 23 December 2016 - 02:02 PM, said:

12 man vs 12 man never happens because FW players would rather play farmville than an actual match.

Only way teams can avoid each other is to be on the same side of the border. *cough*clans*cough*
Otherwise 12 mans have no choice in who they fight thanks to the 2 bucket no matchmaker system.

[Vellron2005]

So far, I like FW4.1, since I can actually find matches now, and the long QP battles make me feel like some actual battles..

However..

FW4.1 is not without is faults.. here are some I've noticed:

1) Planets don't matter.. Half the time I have no idea what planet I'm fighting on, and strategically, planets mean next to nothing. The little MC units get.. stays with units.. the players don't really get any.. And if you're not in a big unit, there's no way you get your unit tag on a planet anyway..

2) Bugs - since FW4.1 hit, the game has been buggy as hell, has slowed down considerably, and the worst of all - FW has a bug that prevents me from getting cbills - I actually LOSE MONEY every time I drop!

3) Same old potato play: The QP maps are not without their faults.. and when you add a dropdeck to that, means you get spawncamped quick.. also, if your first wave gets into a bad situation from doing something that is normal to do in QP, you're done for.. example: Nascaring around till you find yourself between the enemy's first wave and second wave.. you get flanked and crushed, or staying on the friggin' hill at E6-E7 on tourmaline.. that place is a deathtrap as it lets the enemy flank you quickly.. yet.. the PUG potato play is real, and they do this every friggin time.. now, with 4 mecs..

4) Not all QP maps are good for FW... big maps like Alpine, Polar and Torumaline are great for FW.. smaller maps are simply too small and are not good for FW..

5) Can't get the mode you want - the Mechmass event proved that if you don't bloody play this game like it's your dayjob, you can't get into it in time to catch skirmish or conguest or assault.. it gets to Invasion fairly quickly.. so no kodiak head for me :-(

6) Potatoes and knives - everybody can drop with anybody, T1's with T5's, groups with solo players.. And if you're a solo player, you have very little survival chance.. its a bloody mess.. and when you see skittles on your side, and a 12-man on the other side.. your motivation drops to the basement..

7) People are new - its amazing to me that there are players in this game that have never played FW or CW.. I dropped into an invasion match a few days ago and people were shooting at the door, (not the gens, the door), and asking in chat how to open them.. same with the O-gens.. wondering why LRMs aren't hitting them.. It's ok to be new.. but why does this game have nothing to explain how the mode is played so we don't waste an entire first wave to basic mistakes? Why do new players need topics like this?

All in all, the mode still needs a ton of work, but it is a definite improvement over its predecessor, since now, I can finally, once again, actually get matches.