17 replies to this topic

[Racerxintegra2k]

Am i the only one that finds Coordinated teams Sniping, Poking and Pop Tarting exclusively to be the most boring game ever. It usually just ends up with people either hiding behind a rock or potatoes standing out the open until its 8-0 and then you get rolled. What happened to team brawls ? Is that exclusive to tier 5-3 ?

[AEgg]

It's exclusive to team sizes smaller than twelve.

With twelve players, basically every group of mechs is past the "focus fire instantly kills anyone who attempts to attack us" threshold. Hence both sides try to play defense.

[Mawai]

Racerxintegra2k, on 23 December 2016 - 08:09 AM, said:

Am i the only one that finds Coordinated teams Sniping, Poking and Pop Tarting exclusively to be the most boring game ever. It usually just ends up with people either hiding behind a rock or potatoes standing out the open until its 8-0 and then you get rolled. What happened to team brawls ? Is that exclusive to tier 5-3 ?

It mostly has to do with wanting to win.

Crossing the distance to get into brawling range will result in some significant damage to your team ... usually enough to lose the match if the other team is half decent.

So ... there are two choices ... peek and poke trying to whittle down the opponents.
AND
Maneuver ... try to use cover to close the range ... ideally swing the bulk of your forces onto the flank of the defenders and then push to roll them up. This can often end up in a 12:2 stomp even though the match is close until one team gets the advantage.

Moving is almost always a good idea in MWO but moving with coordination takes a bit more organization than a random pug group can often pull together (though I have seen it happen often enough).

You also have to keep in mind:
1) The map
2) The likely loadouts of your team mates

Some of them may not be setup for a brawl at all. Many clan mechs prefer a medium range of 300 to 500m since it hits the optimal of most of their weapons while being towards the longer range for IS weapons. (The exception being clan SPL boats for example ... however, even their SRMs and SSRMs have a distinct range advantage). So ... take a glance at what mechs your team mates are using, guess their load outs, and you will probably have a decent idea of the play style they will want to use and then you can use that information to try to encourage a push at the right time if there are enough folks on the team that will be decent in a brawl.

[Roughneck45]

Dense city map please.

[Tarl Cabot]

Racerxintegra2k, on 23 December 2016 - 08:09 AM, said:

Am i the only one that finds Coordinated teams Sniping, Poking and Pop Tarting exclusively to be the most boring game ever. It usually just ends up with people either hiding behind a rock or potatoes standing out the open until its 8-0 and then you get rolled. What happened to team brawls ? Is that exclusive to tier 5-3 ?

You are fighting Clans, what do you really expect them to do, seriously? They have longer range, harder hitting firepower but that also comes at the expense of heat, so cooling off period. An IS drop MIGHT be setup for brawling with their shorter range, lower damage, quicker firing weapons, it is up to YOU on how to approach the Clans to get close to make them run hotter.

So stop crying/complaining/etc like yesteryear, before the arrival of the Clans, when Atlas pilots shat their pants due only 2-3 mechs being "poptarts" doing a max 35FLDD and hollered "It is not fair, how are we to get close do brawl/do our damage?" Of course few would have been using isXL engines for its increased speed/payload increase due to the fragile nature, making most mechs slowpokes.

This is what many Fedrats have been missing, might have dropped on some Defend vs Clans, occasionally fighting Clans once in awhile after one has made it far enough South, but in the meantime most of your fights have been against same tech Liao/Marik/sometimes Kurita mechwarriors or dropping mostly in QP with combination Clan/IS mechs.

If we had this version of FP much earlier, the current outlier tech differences MIGHT have already been taken care of already. I said might simply... frak, it does not matter, if there are any tech changes it will not happen until later next year while PGI drags their collective feet.

If more IS players stick w/FP instead of bailing for the QP scene, they should be encouraged to log into Houses/Units Teamspeaks. That is the best way to join up with people who are actually DROPPING together on a series of drops, developing team cohesion instead of rolling the dice on primarily PUG drops. Even if said persons do not join a unit, developing a social network with people that you do like to drop with can make your drops a better experience.

[Monkey Lover]

Tarl Cabot, on 23 December 2016 - 09:16 AM, said:

You are fighting Clans, what do you really expect them to do, seriously? They have longer range, harder hitting firepower but that also comes at the expense of heat, so cooling off period. An IS drop MIGHT be setup for brawling with their shorter range, lower damage, quicker firing weapons, it is up to YOU on how to approach the Clans to get close to make them run hotter.

Clans have the best brawl decks they just dont bring them. Clan spl is one of thier best weapons with high dps and lowest heat of all laser weapons., They can boat 4-6 srm6 with art for almost no tonnage and fill their mechs full of 2slot dhs.

They peak and poke because they want too not because they have too.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 23 December 2016 - 09:27 AM.

[El Bandito]

There is nothing wrong with being efficient. Poptarting and hill-humping offers minimum exposure for maximum damage potential. Of course, if everyone and their mothers start to do it then the game risks becoming too stale--like the 2013 Year of Suck.

[Skipmagnet]

Mawai, on 23 December 2016 - 08:34 AM, said:

... take a glance at what mechs your team mates are using, guess their load outs, and you will probably have a decent idea of the play style they will want to use ...

Why can I still not see my team mates load-outs? Why do people snarl at me when I ask what they've brought? If your sekrit build is that sekrit, why are you playing it in public queue? It's like people don't want to win.

[PhoenixFire55]

Have you seen what competitive matches degenerated into before leagues started using conquest game mode instead of skirmish? ... At times 100 damage dealt by the entire team during 15 min match was considered a lot.

It is a most basic principle of warfare tho, WWI is a bright example, if you have a favorable position that you can easily defend there is zero reason to leave it.

Same way, there is no reason to take a "brawler" mech with 300m limited range when you can take a mech with 800m range that is more than enough for most purposes. "Ranged" weaponry works at point blank almost as well as brawler weaponry, and what minor disadvantages exist are more than compensated by several times greater max range.

When dakka was able to reliably put out DPS people loaded up on dakka and made pushes into brawl range. Nowadays its Gauss+PPC and your usual laservomit, i.e. alpha-mechs instead of DPS, and alpha-mechs have no real reason to brawl, unlike ballistic or SRM-based DPS.

[Snazzy Dragon]

Yes it can be boring, but the simple matter is that minimal exposure for minimal return fire and high damage output while overlooking a wide area (sight lines are OP if you are a good shot) will always be the most efficient playstyle that doesn't need much coordination.

Compared to forming a brawling team into the proper formation, coordinating where to go, who to focus, who to put up front to spread armor damage through the team, when to back off and cool down, when to push, where to go again, etc etc, much less effort goes into setting up a good poke line.

[Revis Volek]

Snazzy Dragon, on 23 December 2016 - 01:47 PM, said:

Yes it can be boring, but the simple matter is that minimal exposure for minimal return fire and high damage output while overlooking a wide area (sight lines are OP if you are a good shot) will always be the most efficient playstyle that doesn't need much coordination.

Compared to forming a brawling team into the proper formation, coordinating where to go, who to focus, who to put up front to spread armor damage through the team, when to back off and cool down, when to push, where to go again, etc etc, much less effort goes into setting up a good poke line.

Not to mention map control win over just running around every day.

[CygnusX7]

I find that almost every match is a combination of both.. Long range develops into a brawl fest.

[Composite Armour]

I'm not exactly the best player in the world, so take this with a grain of salt.

But I feel like the current meta is more influenced by the maps themselves than the mechs. Almost every map has narrow passes, heavy use of ridgelines and cover that are then separated by long exposed areas. Line of sight is amazing on most maps and the sniping weapons have more than enough range to take advantage of these features.

I mean, everyone will tell you that low-mounted weapons are a downside. That's not a mech issue. It's because almost every game these weapons will be unable to take advantage of the ample cover and terrain features that the map provides.

I would like to see a flat map with very poor LoS, just to see how it plays.

[Snazzy Dragon]

Composite Armour, on 23 December 2016 - 02:07 PM, said:

I would like to see a flat map with very poor LoS, just to see how it plays.

[Composite Armour]

Snazzy Dragon, on 23 December 2016 - 02:10 PM, said:

It still has good LoS and ridgelines though?

[Tristan Winter]

I honestly think it's a case of monkey-see-monkey-do. When enough good players are using something, and when people on the forums are talking about it, people will start imitating it.

The elite players are the ones who look at a patch and realize the opportunities to play the game differently, and then they go and change the 'meta'. Most people don't do stuff based on patch changes, I think. Except when LRMs and Streaks are buffed, then you see an immediate change.

But it seems like most people are imitating other players. Which is good, sometimes. Because a Tier 3 poptart is rarely something to worry about. Kind of sucks when your whole team is full of bad poptarts though.

[Mystere]

Tristan Winter, on 23 December 2016 - 02:46 PM, said:

I honestly think it's a case of monkey-see-monkey-do.
...
But it seems like most people are imitating other players.

You just described a large chunk of the online video gaming world.

[Tarl Cabot]

Give people a reason to get close

https://ksr-ugc.imgi...1482189706&q=92

https://www.kickstar...h/posts/1768032

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 23 December 2016 - 07:31 PM.