19 replies to this topic

[Felbombling]

Wondering what others are experiencing. I've noticed over the last few days that the mode seems like an automatic victory for the defenders. Anyone out there experiencing the opposite? Attackers easily cutting through the defenses and downing the VIP Mech the norm for you?

After putting some thought into it, a better mode might be extraction with two tweaks...

• The defenders must flip the beacons and turrets along the way.
  
• Increase the number of beacons and turrets so that the defenders can feign different routes.

Currently, the attackers need to win a skirmish mode match handily, yet have sufficient firepower available at the end to finish off the VIP Mech. I've seen teams try to focus down the VIP while ignoring the defenders, and it was a disaster. I just don't see the current balance in the mode working long-term.

[Tesunie]

I've seen teams win the attack, but it is much more difficult (in my opinion). Some of this is also due to people treating it like it's a skirmish match "plus more". So, with that being considered, along with it being so new, not many people have developed any tactics to try and be effective.

I mean, imagine how NARC might work on this? Have a mech NARC the VIP, and another LRM based mech unload on it while the rest of the team distracts/attacks the defenders? Or imagine a deceptive tactic? Have your main body try to pull the defenders away from the VIP (because it's easy to lose track of him I find), and then have a fast stealth group waiting to find and assassinate the VIP? What about (seen as you can typically see the VIP's path kinda) dropping strikes on the VIP, and then ducking behind cover again? If everyone managed to do that as a quick in and out... It may be enough to achieve the victory.

Each tactic is not about beating the defenders, but instead trying to manipulate the battlefield to achieve the intended goal. The goal isn't to eliminate all defenders, but to destroy the VIP. Just like in Invasion, the goal is to destroy the Omega (or protect it). Any other fighting should be to achieve that goal, or it's just wasting resources.

Of course, with PUGs being considered... and their amazing ability to be like herding cats... This may be a game mode better suited to group play than solo play. Mostly because you need a bit more coordination. So, there is that to consider...

[Alistair Winter]

Definitely not auto-win in the solo queue. I have no idea how this game mode plays out amongst coordinated 12-man groups, let alone the competitive players, but I've had plenty of victories on both sides.

One of the main difficulties is finding a route that works on all maps.

[WANTED]

Defending seems to win more for me than attacking. Seems the teams have figured out in defense to split up and send half the team to distract attackers while the rest escort the atlas.

[Mcgral18]

It's Skirmish with a Damage Pinata at the end

Make sure your team wins the Skirmish, and you win




So, you're gonna lose 80% of the time because Potato

[The Unstoppable Puggernaut]

I won a defend match in Polar, we lost 10 mechs, they lost 2. We built a good few layers inbetween them and the VIP. I'd imagine this is how it should work but it really sucked hard getting steamrolled but winning.

On the flip side we won a match on Crimson where defenders were too scared of joining Leroy Jenkins (The VIP) over the saddle. Those who did were welcomed with 12 mechs insta-gibbing them one by one. The others decided CBA.

I love what potential this game mode opens up but currently its a bag of ....

[RestosIII]

My Escort matches have gone two ways. Either my team defends it in staggered formations, causing skirmishes everywhere with the assaults and a couple lights being the defending force for the VIP, or it's a ****show with everyone ignoring the VIP/the VIP getting NARC'd and dying in seconds.

[Commander A9]

Not an auto-win at all.

Just ask the guys we gave Crabs to last night.

[Y E O N N E]

Tesunie, on 26 December 2016 - 10:45 AM, said:

I've seen teams win the attack, but it is much more difficult (in my opinion). Some of this is also due to people treating it like it's a skirmish match "plus more". So, with that being considered, along with it being so new, not many people have developed any tactics to try and be effective.

In my experience (which is mostly as an attacker to date and almost always on Polar for some reason... ~___~), teams not treating it like Skirmish+ are the ones getting pounded. I keep getting players who want to sit there and wait for the VIP to come to them while a few simpletons try to trade 1 vs. 5. Then the VIP shows, and they try to focus it down with 8+ enemy 'Mechs shooting back at them. You can't burn through that Atlas faster than the enemy can burn through you when they are all grouped up.

Find the enemy team. Kill them. Then go leg the Atlas (also take shots of opportunity on it when it won't detract from killing the enemy team).

[Tesunie]

Yeonne Greene, on 26 December 2016 - 12:12 PM, said:

In my experience (which is mostly as an attacker to date and almost always on Polar for some reason... ~___~), teams not treating it like Skirmish+ are the ones getting pounded. I keep getting players who want to sit there and wait for the VIP to come to them while a few simpletons try to trade 1 vs. 5. Then the VIP shows, and they try to focus it down with 8+ enemy 'Mechs shooting back at them. You can't burn through that Atlas faster than the enemy can burn through you when they are all grouped up.

Find the enemy team. Kill them. Then go leg the Atlas (also take shots of opportunity on it when it won't detract from killing the enemy team).

My response was referencing to the OP's concept of attackers need to "win the skirmish handily if they are to win". Quote below for reference.

StaggerCheck, on 26 December 2016 - 10:36 AM, said:

Currently, the attackers need to win a skirmish mode match handily, yet have sufficient firepower available at the end to finish off the VIP Mech. I've seen teams try to focus down the VIP while ignoring the defenders, and it was a disaster. I just don't see the current balance in the mode working long-term.

Skirmish+ would be harder for the attackers to do than the defenders, mostly because of the turrets and the eventual drop ship adding their fire power into the match for the defenders. This isn't saying that the attackers need to wait in ambush, or that Skirmish tactics can't be applied (with some aggressive force), but that there are other ways to possibly play the map "besides skirmish".

So, if treating the game mode like Skirimish isn't working, than maybe other tactics need to be considered by the masses for this game mode.

[Jackal Noble]

Nope

[Snazzy Dragon]

No, attacking on grim plexus is almost a win. The attackers can take the g6 and g7 ECM towers and establish a strong foothold, and plan decisive action from there.

If the defenders take position there first to deny the attackers, then the ridge overlooking g6 and g7 from the attackers side still has ECM tower coverage and you can simply set up on the ridge to shoot the fish in a barrel, so there's no "good" counterplay to the foothold that any PUG can manage.

Edited by Snazzy Dragon, 26 December 2016 - 03:17 PM.

[Stone Wall]

Escort mode having a chance of being picked might increase the LRMs brought.

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

I think nearly every game I've been in where the VIP walked into the open & got focus fired ended in a defeat for the defenders.

There is a route the VIP takes that is close to being an auto loss 100% of the time.

[Cabusha3]

It really depends on the map. I have yet to win as attacker on Polar. It's such a big map it takes forever to ID the target, and them trying to herd the cats that way. Ugh. On the other hand, it's pretty damn easy to kill the VIP as attacker on Tourmaline. He loves to go left or right of the Stargate, so since the Pubs got that way anyway, it's a lot easier to focus the kill. So far I'm about 50/50 for attack on new Frozen City. Both times though I was the one to kill the VIP, since team mates ignored all com chatter or target IDs. The enemy Locust on the other hand, that they had no problems chasing.

[Davers]

Only had 2 escort defense missions and lost both. To be fair though, I think someone TK'd the Atlas based on all the people saying "reported" at the end of the match.

[Escef]

Honestly, I don't even care who wins Escort matches most of the time. The mode gets people out of the stale mid-to-long-range hide-and-poke playstyle. There's pretty much no one saying, "We should set up in <grid XY> and defend!" (Yeah, because allowing the enemy to choose angle and range of engagement ALWAYS is a winning tactic, right?) People MOVE, people ENGAGE in Escort mode. And it makes me more satisfied than most game modes these days.

[I_AM_ZUUL]

to be honest... Escort mode is pretty much an autowin for me on defense or attack. I call almost every match I play and escort being new lets PUGs inexperience listen more instead of thinking they know what they are doing. Defense is generally an easier win (though that VIP going through the worst chokepoints on the map makes it rough sometimes)... but Attack isnt that difficult either, just crash through and kill the VIP is a very viable operation. Win 3-9 or 3-10 plenty of times... cause attacking should be focused on the VIP and most dont do that, which is why it is easier to win Defense.

[El Bandito]

Alistair Winter, on 26 December 2016 - 10:59 AM, said:

Definitely not auto-win in the solo queue. I have no idea how this game mode plays out amongst coordinated 12-man groups, let alone the competitive players, but I've had plenty of victories on both sides.

My experience is opposite. In GQ we usually can reliably focus down the VIP. In solo-q, pugs scatter all over when attacking.

[Kanil]

I wouldn't say it's an autowin, but the defenders have it easy. Free scouting of the attackers, and a damage sponge pugmagnet.

Every point of damage that's poured into the VIP without killing it doesn't actually do anything, but the defenders certainly appreciate it not being applied to their 'mechs instead.