89 replies to this topic

[razenWing]

We know that regular CAC is a placeholder and a smudge of indecent programming. But it got all caliber (2, 5, 10, 20)

However, IS LBX did exist. It's not a placeholder weapon. So why did a placeholder weapon got the full caliber, but a weapon that's supposed to exist does not?

Or am I missing something from the lore?

Edited by razenWing, 26 December 2016 - 05:59 AM.

[El Bandito]

Timeline. IS got LBX2/5/20 in 3058. http://www.sarna.net...LB-X_Autocannon

Current timeline extends to 3053 at most.

IS LBX flat out suck vs. Clan versions though...

Edited by El Bandito, 26 December 2016 - 06:05 AM.

[Bombast]

First, whatever loose timeline they're clinging too is a few months too early for LB-X.

Second... with current rules, IS LB-X would be trash. Crit bloat makes the lighter ones very much worse then the regular ACs, and without crit splitting, not only is the LB 20-X almost completely unusable, but a bunch of the canon designs that hold it actually can't be included in game, like the Bushwacker BSW-L1 and the Sunder D.

Still want them, though.

[razenWing]

Bombast, on 26 December 2016 - 06:03 AM, said:

First, whatever loose timeline they're clinging too is a few months too early for LB-X.

Second... with current rules, IS LB-X would be trash. Crit bloat makes the lighter ones very much worse then the regular ACs, and without crit splitting, not only is the LB 20-X almost completely unusable, but a bunch of the canon designs that hold it actually can't be included in game, like the Bushwacker BSW-L1 and the Sunder D.

Still want them, though.

But the same weakness extend to Clan version too then? But people still use LBX 20 on the Clan side. Am I missing something?

Edited by razenWing, 26 December 2016 - 06:05 AM.

[Bombast]

razenWing, on 26 December 2016 - 06:05 AM, said:

But the same weakness extend to Clan version too then? But people still use LBX 20 on the Clan side. Am I missing something?

A bunch of stuff, actually.

Clan LB-X use less crits then Inner Sphere models. Specifically...

LB 2-X: 3 to 4
LB 5-X: 4 to 5
LB 10-X: 5 to 6
LB 20-X: 9 to 11

And then there's two crit heat sinks. 4 crit XL engines. 7 crit Endo/Ferro. And so on.

EDIT: And, as you can see, Clans can put the LB 20-X where ever they want. While the Inner Sphere can only put it side torsos. With no XL engine.

Edited by Bombast, 26 December 2016 - 06:10 AM.

[El Bandito]

razenWing, on 26 December 2016 - 06:05 AM, said:

But people still use LBX 20 on the Clan side.

They are pretty meh though. Only for certain assaults.

Edited by El Bandito, 26 December 2016 - 07:25 AM.

[banana peel]

El Bandito, on 26 December 2016 - 06:00 AM, said:

Timeline. IS got LBX2/5/20 in 3058. http://www.sarna.net...LB-X_Autocannon

Current timeline extends to 3053 at most.

IS LBX flat out suck vs. Clan versions though...

I beg your pardon, you mean, other lbx's than 10s? Because as for now IS lbx10 is the most effective ballistics of IS in terms of comparison to clantech ton to ton. Since uac5 and gauss nerf i'm running many builds around lbx10s or ac2 and getting pretty decent results.
Lbx20 sure would suck though, if it took 11 slots. No dual LBX20 crabs

[Dirus Nigh]

Bombast, on 26 December 2016 - 06:03 AM, said:

First, whatever loose timeline they're clinging too is a few months too early for LB-X.

Second... with current rules, IS LB-X would be trash. Crit bloat makes the lighter ones very much worse then the regular ACs, and without crit splitting, not only is the LB 20-X almost completely unusable, but a bunch of the canon designs that hold it actually can't be included in game, like the Bushwacker BSW-L1 and the Sunder D.

Still want them, though.

The IS LBX 10 is one ton and crit slot less than the standard AC10.

[El Bandito]

banana peel, on 26 December 2016 - 07:29 AM, said:

I beg your pardon, you mean, other lbx's than 10s? Because as for now IS lbx10 is the most effective ballistics of IS in terms of comparison to clantech ton to ton. Since uac5 and gauss nerf i'm running many builds around lbx10s or ac2 and getting pretty decent results.
Lbx20 sure would suck though, if it took 11 slots. No dual LBX20 crabs

IS LBX10 is bad, and you should feel bad about using it on any mechs that is not heavily quirked for it.

[Willard Phule]

Hey, let's bump up the timeline to 3058 so they can have LBX technology......

Because the Clans didn't make a single technological advance during that time.....I'm sure it'll be just as balanced as it is now.

[Bombast]

Dirus Nigh, on 26 December 2016 - 07:35 AM, said:

The IS LBX 10 is one ton and crit slot less than the standard AC10.

It's the only LB-X system where that is true. The rest of them pay for the pleasure of variable munitions that MWO doesn't allow.

LB 2-X: +3 Crits
LB 5-X: +1 Crits
LB 20-X: +1 Crit

Doesn't seem too rough at first, until you realize the LB 20-X can't be used in the arms of any battlemech, making it even more restrictive then the AC/20. And while the LB 5-Xs bloat doesn't seem that bad, it reduces the ammount you can carry in one location, and dual weilding them in a ST now means you can't use an XL engine. And the LB 2-X has four times as many crits as AC/2.

[Navid A1]

I asked this very specific question in Mechcon.
The answer was that: we first have to balance the stuff we currently have in game.


I did not get the chance to respond:
But, if you achieve balance with what is currently available, that would give you a perfect excuse not to introduce new tech...ever!

[banana peel]

El Bandito, on 26 December 2016 - 07:39 AM, said:

IS LBX10 is bad, and you should feel bad about using it on any mechs that is not heavily quirked for it.

*overused old meme*

You wont get me with this one

High velocity and low heat are more appealing to me, than unreliable crit chance. With ac5 and uac5 heat of 1,5 lbx10 is now more effective within ~350 range in terms of dps/tonnage. So if you are going for mid-short range, you take lbx. It also allows you to torsotwist, while ac5s - dont. I could break down it even further for you, but i'm not sure if your meta-shaped mind is ready for this kind of revelation just yet!

Edited by banana peel, 26 December 2016 - 08:49 AM.

[Spheroid]

The LBX-20 is not implemented because it would require new programing code for split crits. As the Crytek engine is in the process of dying industry wide, everyday fewer and fewer people are in possession of those skill sets. Even fewer if you add in the deterants of working in Canada or being paid in the weak Canadian dollar(specifically USD vs. CD).

[Lykaon]

What I wonder is when the clans got their "place holder" ACs that were suppose to represent the LBX class autocannons using slug ammo the Inner Sphere LB10 X didn't get it's counterpart.

The funny thing is the clans by and large never use the "place holder" cannons because they have better options with the Ultra class ACs.

Yet the Inner Sphere would likely make use of this weapon when comparing to other options. There are some builds I would opt to use at 11 ton 6 crit burst fire AC 10 with lower heat and superior range to the 12 ton 7 crit slot one shot AC 10.

AC10: tons: 12 Crit slots: 7 range: 450/900m Heat: 3 Velocity: 950 mps Cooldown: 2.5 seconds Damage: 10 single shot
LB10X: tons: 11 Critslots: 6 Range: 540/1620m Heat: 2 Velocity:1100mps Cooldown: 2.5 seconds Damage:10/1 per pellet
ACB10: Tons 11 Crit slots: 6 Range: 540/1620m Heat: 2 Velocity 1100MPS Coolddown: 2.5 seconds Damage 10 over three

[Y E O N N E]

banana peel, on 26 December 2016 - 08:23 AM, said:

It also allows you to torsotwist, while ac5s - dont.

Uh, yes they do. They have identical rates of fire, and they are both front-loaded. Boom and twist...

[banana peel]

Yeonne Greene, on 26 December 2016 - 09:12 AM, said:

Uh, yes they do. They have identical rates of fire, and they are both front-loaded. Boom and twist...

ac_5_, read carefully pls. 1,66 sec cooldown compared to 2,5 sec on lbx10.

[Snowbluff]

banana peel, on 26 December 2016 - 08:23 AM, said:

You wont get me with this one

High velocity and low heat are more appealing to me, than unreliable crit chance. With ac5 and uac5 heat of 1,5 lbx10 is now more effective within ~350 range in terms of dps/tonnage. So if you are going for mid-short range, you take lbx. It also allows you to torsotwist, while ac5s - dont. I could break down it even further for you, but i'm not sure if your meta-shaped mind is ready for this kind of revelation just yet!

The crit chance adds 2 points on damage on unarmored sections (~66% chance, .3 damage per pellet crit). It's garbage for destroying equipment, but you do get a little bit of damage to make up for the spread.

[Y E O N N E]

banana peel, on 26 December 2016 - 09:22 AM, said:

ac_5_, read carefully pls. 1,66 sec cooldown compared to 2,5 sec on lbx10.

I know what you typed. And I know you are still wrong. Nothing compels you to sit there and hold the button down for two shots while staring.

[MechaBattler]

It's not like it would hurt to move up the timeline and give the IS their crappier version of what the Clans get. Unless they gave them some buff that makes up for the difference, it's just going to be inferior. But at least it would be an option.