67 replies to this topic

[Andi Nagasia]

id hate to say it,
i love Clan Mechs and most of my Mechs are Clan,
BUT

the Change to increase Clan DHS Heat Capacity form +1.1 to +1.5(40%ish more)
has Changed the dynamic of how much Clan Mechs can Fire before Cooling,
(both DHS have received this Change)

this means IS Mech, which already Run Cool, dont really have to worry about heat,
and Clan Mechs which did before, not dont have to as much(hence +40% heat cap)
this i feel has shifted the Balance back in Clan Favor,

Personally i feel they should revert this DHS change,
bringing both IS and Clan DHSs back to +1.1 Heat Cap,

ok after much Math,
Testing and Realizing that All DHSs have 1.5Cap(In/Out of Engine)
and taking into consideration the Current Stating heat Cap, here are the Results,
-
=10HeatSinks=
Old Stats= 30(Starting Cap) +11(EngineDHS) = 41
New Stats= 30(Starting Cap) +15(EngineDHS) = 45(+10%)
=20HeatSinks=
Old Stats= 30(Starting Cap) +22(EngineDHS) = 52
New Stats= 30(Starting Cap) +30(EngineDHS) = 60(+15%)
=30HeatSinks=
Old Stats= 30(Starting Cap) +33(EngineDHS) = 63
New Stats= 30(Starting Cap) +45(EngineDHS) = 75(+19%)
(this is for both IS and Clan)


with this in mind, and some more testing ive come to the Conclusion i was wrong,
i hereby retract my statement that the increase is the reason for Greater Clan Dominance,


PS
this is not a Nerf Clan Topic,
this is about a recent Change i feel needs to be Reverted for Balance,

Thoughts, Comments, Concerns?
Thanks,
Edit- Spelling
Edit- Statement

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 29 December 2016 - 08:37 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

It did exactly that.

Given equal damage, longer-range should always have inferior heat efficiency to shorter range so that there's incentive to actually bring a short-range load-out. With Clans and IS having about the same heat efficiency for the same damage output at longer range, this rule is broken. Compounding the problem is the fact that even at close range, the Clans have more heat-efficient options in the cERSL/cSPL and, barring that, have more tonnage-efficient options that allow sufficient DHS to turn them into more heat-efficient options (cMPL).

[Andi Nagasia]

@Yeonne Greene,
nice to see us on the same side again,

[RestosIII]

Honestly, it really confused me when they buffed DHS. I thought they were trying to make heat more of a factor, not less of one?

[Snazzy Dragon]

It's hilarious that PGI states they want to lower raise TTK in one month then buffs DHS for both factions the next.

Edit: I have been hitting the alcohols, thanks to Yeonne catching the mistake. :s

Edited by Snazzy Dragon, 27 December 2016 - 07:17 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

RestosIII, on 27 December 2016 - 06:58 PM, said:

Honestly, it really confused me when they buffed DHS. I thought they were trying to make heat more of a factor, not less of one?

I think they were trying to simplify the system so that it's easier to balance around. When everybody has identical DHS behavior, and you know about how many DHS each build style needs (dakka, vomit, etc.), it's easier to tweak everything around that.

Snazzy Dragon, on 27 December 2016 - 07:00 PM, said:

It's hilarious that PGI states they want to lower TTK in one month then buffs DHS for both factions the next.

You mean they want to raise TTK. Lowering it is what they did.

[Wraith 1]

Andi Nagasia, on 27 December 2016 - 06:44 PM, said:

...
Personally i feel they should revert this DHS change,
bringing both IS and Clan DHSs back to +1.1 Heat Cap,
...

IS-DHS were already at 1.5 heat cap before this patch according to Smurfy's, whoever wrote the patch notes was misinformed. IS-DHS only received a 0.01 dissipation buff.

Though, I'm inclined to agree that reverting these changes would be good. It might just be all the MAD-IICs running around with 25+ C-DHS, but I did like the IS-DHS getting a small advantage for being so much bulkier.

[Bandilly]

RestosIII, on 27 December 2016 - 06:58 PM, said:

Honestly, it really confused me when they buffed DHS. I thought they were trying to make heat more of a factor, not less of one?

It might have to do with skill trees. We know with ED they were going to make some changes and some of those changes are potentially happening within the skill trees themselves now. Buffing DHS might be calculated in there somewhere.

[LordLeto]

But doing the change several months before the skill tree revamp or other balancing options that would have canceled this change seems odd to me.

[El Bandito]

Yes, lets buff Clan DHS to to the same level as IS DHS even though IS DHS takes 3 slots and can't be equipped in CT or legs. Sure the CDHS HP was reduced to 6.6, but since its size is already 2/3 of IS DHS, it is harder to crit in the first place! The HP nerf did nothing.


PGI logic, man...

[LordLeto]

The window between armor being stripped and the component being gone is far to small for crits/destroyed weapons(let alone heatsinks) to usually mean much of anything.

[Y E O N N E]

You say that, but I'm always left running around missing an SRM rack, missing an AC/20, missing an AC/10, missing 2xAC/5 all the time without having actually lost the side torso, and it's infuriating because they go poof instantly once the armor is gone.

[RestosIII]

Yeonne Greene, on 27 December 2016 - 09:22 PM, said:

You say that, but I'm always left running around missing an SRM rack, missing an AC/20, missing an AC/10, missing 2xAC/5 all the time without having actually lost the side torso, and it's infuriating because they go poof instantly once the armor is gone.

I still think the IS should get equipment health boosts alongside their armor+structure quirks.

[Snazzy Dragon]

Yeonne Greene, on 27 December 2016 - 09:22 PM, said:

You say that, but I'm always left running around missing an SRM rack, missing an AC/20, missing an AC/10, missing 2xAC/5 all the time without having actually lost the side torso, and it's infuriating because they go poof instantly once the armor is gone.

Have you tried wrapping your AC/20 in bubble wrap before you mount it?

[Y E O N N E]

Snazzy Dragon, on 27 December 2016 - 09:29 PM, said:

Have you tried wrapping your AC/20 in bubble wrap before you mount it?

Lostech.

#InnerSphere

[Mcgral18]

Yeonne Greene, on 27 December 2016 - 09:22 PM, said:

You say that, but I'm always left running around missing an SRM rack, missing an AC/20, missing an AC/10, missing 2xAC/5 all the time without having actually lost the side torso, and it's infuriating because they go poof instantly once the armor is gone.

Well, that's mainly a result of the large amount of PP FLD flying around

They roll a single 42-50% single Crit, and you lose anything that's not an AC20 (and 17-20% chance to lose that AC20) any time armour is pierced. 10 damage to your 9 armour? Bye bye, says RNGeesus

Edited by Mcgral18, 27 December 2016 - 09:40 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Mcgral18, on 27 December 2016 - 09:40 PM, said:

Well, that's mainly a result of the large amount of PP FLD flying around

They roll a single 42-50% single Crit, and you lose anything that's not an AC20 (and 17-20% chance to lose that AC20) any time armour is pierced. 10 damage to your 9 armour? Bye bye, says RNGeesus

It's not even the PPFLD that does it. The PPFLD is removing whole sections, it's the brushes with lasers that are destroying equipment.

[Snowbluff]

RestosIII, on 27 December 2016 - 06:58 PM, said:

Honestly, it really confused me when they buffed DHS. I thought they were trying to make heat more of a factor, not less of one?

I agree with you and I think Yeonne. Super weird choice.

(Heil PD)

El Bandito, on 27 December 2016 - 09:00 PM, said:

Yes, lets buff Clan DHS to to the same level as IS DHS even though IS DHS takes 3 slots and can't be equipped in CT or legs. Sure the CDHS HP was reduced to 6.6, but since its size is already 2/3 of IS DHS, it is harder to crit in the first place! The HP nerf did nothing.

PGI logic, man...

I can't name a sinlge Clan Omni that can put a heat sink in the legs or CT. Maybe the Nova? Maybe? It sounds like a non issue, as that means we're talking about CLan Battlemechs, which are good, but the energy ones tend to be ovens even with a DHS crammed into the legs.

Bandilly, on 27 December 2016 - 07:21 PM, said:

It might have to do with skill trees. We know with ED they were going to make some changes and some of those changes are potentially happening within the skill trees themselves now. Buffing DHS might be calculated in there somewhere.

Yeah they were going to give SHS more capacity and DHS more cooling.

[Johnny Z]

Snowbluff, on 27 December 2016 - 10:15 PM, said:

I agree with you and I think Yeonne. Super weird choice.

(Heil PD)
I can't name a sinlge Clan Omni that can put a heat sink in the legs or CT. Maybe the Nova? Maybe? It sounds like a non issue, as that means we're talking about CLan Battlemechs, which are good, but the energy ones tend to be ovens even with a DHS crammed into the legs.

Yeah they were going to give SHS more capacity and DHS more cooling.

Logic says that double heat sinks would have the capacity and single the cooling. Least that's what I think.

[Snowbluff]

Johnny Z, on 27 December 2016 - 10:25 PM, said:

Logic says that double heat sinks would have the capacity and single the cooling. Least that's what I think.

The DHS and SHS have the same mass. I'd think their capacity would be the same (assuming similiar composition) but the DHS would have more cooling due to the improved surface area/functionality of the radiator.

Edited by Snowbluff, 27 December 2016 - 10:29 PM.