45 replies to this topic

[Mawai]

Shiroi Tsuki, on 31 December 2016 - 12:31 AM, said:

It's really dumb and something that I've been thinking a lot.
My guess is that the cartridge of the AC/20s are small in comparison to the caliber of the shell. Unlike IRL shells where the cartridge's diameter and length increases as the caliber gets bigger, I'm assuming that the AC/20 cartridge only increases in diameter, not in length and thus contains less propellant giving the AC/20 a much shorter range. I guess this is done to fit with the standardized 1 slot per ton ammo system. If it were proportional though, I guess AC/20 range would far exceed ~5 km (given that the barrel is also increased).

First, there is no real point in discussing Battletech in the context of real physics or the realities of todays technology (or even the technology current when Battletech was created).

Lasers are a great example. There is really no physical reason for an effective range of only 270m for an IS medium laser. Atmospheric based attentuation doesn't suddenly stop or start and is affected by dust and other elements in the atmosphere (or lack of atmosphere). Ballistics are just as inane given that current weapon systems have much greater effective ranges. The AC20 has a range slightly better than a cannon ball if you think about it. Missiles have similar issues .. current missiles have huge ranges compared to Battletech and can lock on to a target or even a portion of a target (target recognition electronics).

Battletech is a game in which the mechs provide for atmostphere and the rules have been set up to make for fun gameplay ... and that is it


P.S. All that said ... it is up to PGI to adjust values to give a fun and balanced game play experience and this is something that they have been reluctant to do ...

Edited by Mawai, 01 January 2017 - 12:25 PM.

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

Shiroi Tsuki, on 31 December 2016 - 12:31 AM, said:

It's really dumb and something that I've been thinking a lot.
My guess is that the cartridge of the AC/20s are small in comparison to the caliber of the shell. Unlike IRL shells where the cartridge's diameter and length increases as the caliber gets bigger, I'm assuming that the AC/20 cartridge only increases in diameter, not in length and thus contains less propellant giving the AC/20 a much shorter range. I guess this is done to fit with the standardized 1 slot per ton ammo system. If it were proportional though, I guess AC/20 range would far exceed ~5 km (given that the barrel is also increased).

With ballistic rounds, as far as I know, what defeats armor is high speed.

A larger diameter round like an AC20 would carry more energy due to it having more mass and being larger.

What could really matter is the ratio of the rounds speed to its diameter and surface area.

A .50 caliber desert eagle has a big bullet but would lack the range and power of a .50 caliber rifle.

An AC20 could be built more like a derringer or pistol than a rifle.

[L1f3H4ck]

Bandilly, on 31 December 2016 - 07:51 AM, said:

Because it goes 9 hexes and each hex is 30 meters.

This, and only this. Yes, lore is important, cuz that's what the whole game and its appeal is about. If you don't like it, well, you have done enough damage already. There are other generic shooter games, go play those. It's called Battletech, not Logitech, deal with it.

[Johnny Z]

I don't see how lore effects this. Its a miniscule weapon stat that if balance needs should be adjusted.

I hope lore is respected more than anyone I think or at least as much but I simply dont see a problem with this or taking minimum range no damage off the PPC either.

Got to keep the characters of the different techs as much as possible somehow and that isn't easy and have balance, but I look at other games like TOR and see pink and green clouds and sparkles showing jedi powers and commando skills and think what a great job this game has done so far and I hope they keep it up, and yet somehow have good game play.

I cant wait to see how Lostech is added to the game some day as well. This is the Battletech Universe being made/discussed with all these topics and additions to the game and everything involved.

Again Lostech is one of the coolest things about Mechwarrior and Battletech and cant wait to see it brought in, in a cool way hopefully.

Edited by Johnny Z, 01 January 2017 - 02:26 PM.

[Johnny Z]

Mawai, on 01 January 2017 - 12:23 PM, said:

First, there is no real point in discussing Battletech in the context of real physics or the realities of todays technology (or even the technology current when Battletech was created).

Lasers are a great example. There is really no physical reason for an effective range of only 270m for an IS medium laser. Atmospheric based attentuation doesn't suddenly stop or start and is affected by dust and other elements in the atmosphere (or lack of atmosphere). Ballistics are just as inane given that current weapon systems have much greater effective ranges. The AC20 has a range slightly better than a cannon ball if you think about it. Missiles have similar issues .. current missiles have huge ranges compared to Battletech and can lock on to a target or even a portion of a target (target recognition electronics).

Battletech is a game in which the mechs provide for atmostphere and the rules have been set up to make for fun gameplay ... and that is it


P.S. All that said ... it is up to PGI to adjust values to give a fun and balanced game play experience and this is something that they have been reluctant to do ...

This is a sci-fi and todays technology means nothing, mechs wouldn't work at all without stasis fields in the feet, which I assume mechs do have. Point being we don't know the details of all the technology involved in this fiction based in the far future.

Edited by Johnny Z, 01 January 2017 - 02:56 PM.

[Weeny Machine]

Random Carnage, on 31 December 2016 - 02:20 AM, said:

Play it for what it is, and accept that this game has gone too far now to ever fix. Balance can never be achieved, and the pursuit of such simply morphs all mechs toward mediocrity. If people were less fixated on balance, and more willing to roll with chassis being what they are meant to be without crying a river because their 25 tonne mech can't face tank an assault, this would be a much better game.

...that last comment is funny. Actually the fatties whined that they weren't able to lolalpha lights easily because of their speed. What happened? A series of direct and indirect nerfs to light mechs and heavies and assaults are able to turn like fat ballerinas.

Mawai, on 01 January 2017 - 12:23 PM, said:

First, there is no real point in discussing Battletech in the context of real physics or the realities of todays technology (or even the technology current when Battletech was created).

Lasers are a great example. There is really no physical reason for an effective range of only 270m for an IS medium laser. Atmospheric based attentuation doesn't suddenly stop or start and is affected by dust and other elements in the atmosphere (or lack of atmosphere). Ballistics are just as inane given that current weapon systems have much greater effective ranges. The AC20 has a range slightly better than a cannon ball if you think about it. Missiles have similar issues .. current missiles have huge ranges compared to Battletech and can lock on to a target or even a portion of a target (target recognition electronics).

Battletech is a game in which the mechs provide for atmostphere and the rules have been set up to make for fun gameplay ... and that is it


P.S. All that said ... it is up to PGI to adjust values to give a fun and balanced game play experience and this is something that they have been reluctant to do ...

I think in a TOR or other sourcebook it was mentioned that defensive capabilities at one point outstripped the offense (armour plating being able to absorb tremendous amounts of punishment etc). That would explain to some degree the effective range of some weapons.

Edited by Bush Hopper, 01 January 2017 - 03:00 PM.