18 replies to this topic

[DavidStarr]

I've heard too many times how Grasshopper is a great chassis, awesome for CW and whatnot. So I bought the Medium Pack on Steam and got a 5H(S).

First I tried the Laser Vomit build from MetaMechs, then I dropped 2 MLs and 1 JJ for an STD engine (it's too hot even with less lasers). I don't like it one bit. 150-200 damage per game is my average, that's kinda low even for a 50 ton medium. What else can I try?
Or is there some trick to surviving longer? The problem is, this is a pretty short range mech, I can't deal much damage without taking much damage; and for its short range the DPS is very low.

Edited by DavidStarr, 02 January 2017 - 07:11 AM.

[Bud Crue]

I run an H with the laser vomit build you mentioned and it is one of my best performers. Thus, I can't really give you any suggestions other than the "trick" to surviving longer is to never stop moving and alpha twist, lpls twist, ML twist, repeat. JJ's more than 2 are a waste, you use them to spread damage vertically and even then use them sparingly given how they kill your momentum. That's all I got.

Two comment on builds:
If you are really desperate for something different and not as brawly try 3ERLL in the high mounts and spl in the low and arms and just try and play more of a sniper role or pop-tart, using the 4SPL for back up when the lights come for you. I ran that for a while and then switched to 2ERPPCs and 3MPL with an XL340 and it fills the same role (despite the lack of PPC quirks the thing works great. The shakes often make it difficult for me to hold the ERLL on target for a full burn, thus the PPCs).

Other thing is you can go the opposite direction and build a std brawler akin to a Thunderbolt 5SS but with jump jets. 5MPL, and a LPL or even 7MPL (alternate 5 torsos and 2 in the arms to avoid ghost heat). I think you can manage a std 300 and 2 jets doing this. It worked alright, but I really think you are better off with a big XL, just gotta get used to it.

[Acehilator]

Triple LPL + X builds only work when constantly hiding behind teammates while cooling, and you need to be good with lasers to really get mileage out of the massive alpha. I don't like them for solo QP. Conservative setup is dual LPL + X. LPL in the high mounts for wannabe poking, and all MLs on the low mounts for the brawl.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...0952c85d108b1ac

Modules would be LPL cooldown for better sync with the ML cooldown, and ML range. MLs have a bad heat/damage efficiency, you don't want ML cooldown module (and sync with the LPLs would suffer again).

/edit: spelling

Edited by Acehilator, 02 January 2017 - 07:48 AM.

[Paqu]

Also dont forget the heat effiency will improve quite a lot once you get it elited.

[DavidStarr]

Thanks for the replies!

Acehilator, on 02 January 2017 - 07:47 AM, said:

Conservative setup is dual LPL + X. LPL in the high mounts for wannabe poking, and all MLs on the low mounts for the brawl.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...0952c85d108b1ac

Think I will try this next.

Paqu, on 02 January 2017 - 08:51 AM, said:

Also dont forget the heat effiency will improve quite a lot once you get it elited.

Fair point, I'm slowly working on those double efficiencies yet. Very slowly.

[Acehilator]

DavidStarr, on 02 January 2017 - 09:05 AM, said:

Fair point, I'm slowly working on those double efficiencies yet. Very slowly.

You should only do the basics on the 5H. The 5P is the better mech all around. If you want to master a Hopper, the 5P is the one you want. The 5J is nice for ER LL poking, but the lack of high hardpoints hold him back somewhat. The 5N is just straight up even worse than the 5H.

[Wedge Red Leader]

DavidStarr, on 02 January 2017 - 07:06 AM, said:

I've heard too many times how Grasshopper is a great chassis, awesome for CW and whatnot. So I bought the Medium Pack on Steam and got a 5H(S).

First I tried the Laser Vomit build from MetaMechs, then I dropped 2 MLs and 1 JJ for an STD engine (it's too hot even with less lasers). I don't like it one bit. 150-200 damage per game is my average, that's kinda low even for a 50 ton medium. What else can I try?
Or is there some trick to surviving longer? The problem is, this is a pretty short range mech, I can't deal much damage without taking much damage; and for its short range the DPS is very low.

Well, my first though is you have taken the bait. MLs are a good damage add-er for heavy or assault mechs. But they are not a good primary source of fire power for them. Distance is your friend for Grasshoppers, 5ERLL or 5LL all day.

[Ruar]

I have one ERLL, one LPL and three MPL on my 'Hopper. Gives me the ability to deal damage at range, crank up the damage as they move in closer, and still manages heat quite well.

[Nightbird]

3LPL + 4ML, XL340, 2JJ strip lots of arm and some leg armor. Don't bother with anything else

Edited by ironnightbird, 03 January 2017 - 08:53 PM.

[DavidStarr]

ironnightbird, on 03 January 2017 - 08:50 PM, said:

3LPL + 4ML, XL340, 2JJ strip lots of arm and some leg armor. Don't bother with anything else

So that brings me back to the original build, just with a bigger engine, hmm...
I'm actually using the same build to some effect in CW, only with STD 280.

[Palfatreos]

GHR-5H (3 x LPL, 4 x ML, 2 x JJ, XL325)

GHR-5H (3 x LPL, 2 x ML, 2 x JJ, STD300)

make sure you grab both lpl and med range weapon module if you can afford the cbills.

The 5p version my eyes best version because of the -15% laser duration and 10% etra range.

Since the grashopper new i suspect you barely have skills on it which has a big effect on hot laservomit mechs. Also unles you find a way to engage/poke with with people around your optimal 300-400 range you wont be doing much damage.

[Tarogato]

The Grasshopper is a 70-ton heavy. Not sure what gave you the impression that it's a 50-ton medium.


Run an XL engine. You need the speed to grant you your survivability. Running a STD engine just makes your mech handle like poop and/or have pitiful damage armament. In short, it makes you more vulnerable and less powerful. The Grasshopper hitboxes are great, if you run a large XL, you'll be able to spread damage by torso twisting and constantly moving, and early XL-deaths are pretty rare in it.

At the risk if sounding like a diсk, if you think this build is too hot, then you're flat out playing the mech wrong. (if you don't have it Elited in the skill tree, that hurts, too)

There's two "modes" to a mech that has a loadout like this. There's "alpha mode" and "DPS mode". These are two things that I just made up on the spot to help explain something that is probably second nature to most players with ample experience.


"Alpha mode" is when you're in the poking/trading phase of a match. You poke out from cover, you fire all of your weapons at once, and you go back to cover and wait until you're cool enough to poke out and fire everything again. This means that you're outputting the maximum amount of damage in the least amount of time every time that you present your mech to the enemy. If he has a mech/build that deals more damage than yours, then you need to stop poking against that mech and find something else to shoot at instead. Also, you should be as close to optimum range as possible (since your alpha includes medium lasers, then you should be at ~300 meters at the most.)

"DPS mode" is when you anticipate that you'll be shooting continuously for a solid 20 seconds or more. In this case, you want to output the most damage over time, not necessarily the largest alpha-strike. The LPL has a better damage-to-heat ratio than the ML, so basically this means only fire your LPLs and save your MLs for that super clear steady shot but only when you can really afford the heat for it. Essentially, using the medium lasers hurts your ability to deal damage over time because they raise your heat a lot and deal less damage in return compared to the large pulse - simply, they are less efficient. So if you get into a brawl and your heat is climbing, stop firing the MLs and just stick to the LPLs.

[TercieI]

Fantastic explanation, Taro.

[Bud Crue]

DavidStarr, on 03 January 2017 - 09:49 PM, said:

So that brings me back to the original build, just with a bigger engine, hmm...
I'm actually using the same build to some effect in CW, only with STD 280.

Honestly, if you are going to run a std engine LPL mech, buy a Thunderbolt 9SE. Make a 3LPL, 2ML 1-2JJ build on a Hopper and then on an SE with a std 280 or thereabouts. They end up pretty similar but the t-bolt has better heat efficiency, is faster, and has way better LPL quirks. If even that is too hot then drop to just 3LPL and up the engine. T-Bolt still wins. Now Switch over to that big XL...which the Tbolt can't do...and the Hopper takes the lead with a significantly higher alpha, better speed, and hit boxes that make the legendary "standard engine durability" a non-issue. Don't take my word for it. Go build em and see for yourself.

[DavidStarr]

Tarogato, on 04 January 2017 - 05:53 AM, said:

Not sure what gave you the impression that it's a 50-ton medium.

Nothing. What I was trying to say (in a poorly worded fashion) is that my GHR performance in QP is akin to that in a Hunchback or Centurion.

Tarogato, on 04 January 2017 - 05:53 AM, said:

Running a STD engine just makes your mech handle like poop

It does just that, but I figured that won't matter in CW where you're either pushing with the entire team or hiding behind some rock until you die. I might have been wrong. Will try XL in CW as well as QP.

Tarogato, on 04 January 2017 - 05:53 AM, said:

At the risk if sounding like a diсk, if you think this build is too hot, then you're flat out playing the mech wrong. (if you don't have it Elited in the skill tree, that hurts, too)

Well, after getting some more games in (both QP and CW), I can say that it's damn hot but it still can rack up surprising amount of damage. Sadly, my positioning and brawl micro-management skills (or lack thereof) usually prevent me from living long enough. But yes, it's not bad, not even on hot maps.

Tarogato, on 04 January 2017 - 05:53 AM, said:

There's two "modes" to a mech that has a loadout like this. There's "alpha mode" and "DPS mode".

I didn't know for a fact LPLs are more heat-efficient than MLs, only suspected that. I did sort of used both "modes", but not very consciously, and based on engagement range more than its duration. Now that you spelled it out for me, I should be able to manage my heat more efficiently based on how badly I need my target to go away right now (and how much more heat I can take).

Thanks for the great reply!

Edited by DavidStarr, 04 January 2017 - 08:26 AM.

[DavidStarr]

Bud Crue, on 04 January 2017 - 07:21 AM, said:

Now Switch over to that big XL...which the Tbolt can't do...and the Hopper takes the lead with a significantly higher alpha, better speed, and hit boxes that make the legendary "standard engine durability" a non-issue. Don't take my word for it. Go build em and see for yourself.

Point taken, only XL engines from now on. Besides, it's time I learn torso twisting.

[Husker Dude]

Palfatreos, on 04 January 2017 - 04:09 AM, said:

The 5p version my eyes best version because of the -15% laser duration and 10% etra range.

Not to mention the best hardpoints; the torsos shoot so high, much better than the 5H in that sense, at the cost of heat gen quirks. I rarely take the 5H anymore, since the Warhammers were released, but the 5P is still a regular in my deck.

[Arianrhod]

You're all doing it wrong. Sure, you could "build an effective mech that does good DPS and maximizes the high mounts". Yeah, you could "have manageable heat efficiency" and "can deal pinpoint damage in a short burn time". But the correct build for a GHR-5H is max XL engine and 4 PPCs. Nothing else but DHS. Just 4 PPCs. And pray the light mechs don't come for you.

[Stf Sgt Marblez]

Arianrhod, on 06 January 2017 - 01:13 PM, said:

You're all doing it wrong. Sure, you could "build an effective mech that does good DPS and maximizes the high mounts". Yeah, you could "have manageable heat efficiency" and "can deal pinpoint damage in a short burn time". But the correct build for a GHR-5H is max XL engine and 4 PPCs. Nothing else but DHS. Just 4 PPCs. And pray the light mechs don't come for you.

Na just strap 4 er sml and 3 lpl with an xl 340 and heatsinks and max jump jets on my 5h...love it