54 replies to this topic

[Deathlike]

Alan Davion, on 05 January 2017 - 08:30 PM, said:

The only problem with your argument goes right back to the Clan players. If PGI were to suddenly make the IS XL engine immune to destruction via only a single torso loss, thereby giving it equal survival with the Clan XL, can you with any reasonable degree of assurance say that the Clan players would not throw an absolute s***-fit because their XL engine has essentially been nerfed by making the IS XL immune to single torso destruction?

Clan players were already having that fit when they applied the agility reduction for losing a side torso.. part of which existed in the lore.

So, this wouldn't have been the first nor will it be the last.

Quote

The IS LFE is a compromise between the two. It's immune to single torso destruction, but gives less weight savings.

It's all risk/reward. XL gives you even more weight savings, but you're taking a huge risk depending on the mech you're using. LFE gives you less weight savings, but prevents you from being insta-killed if you're focused too heavily on by the enemy. Or a sneaky light mech that manages to gut your rear torso.

LFE is not a compromise. Clan XL still keeps its benefits while IS loses out on the tonnage savings. This is before we talk about how the CERMED is closer to the IS LL than the ISMED (which every bad comparison starts with the CERMED and the ISMED, only to obscure the reality of balance).

Hit the Deck, on 05 January 2017 - 08:46 PM, said:

The IS still needs to get the LFE. There are mainly three reasons:

• the aforementioned weight saving compared to STD
  
• small speed increase over STD
  
• and when you can't take isXL because it restricts equipment placement on the ST

Yes, the STD would be relegated to specialised builds like the brawler Atlas' or Dakka Mauler's. PGI can also make STD worth more by giving 'Mechs which equips it durability bonus or something.

Clan XLs are still superior, and that 1 crit diff is a minor issue compared to the tonnage savings.

LFE doesn't fix the balance woes.. it simple obsoletes the STD engine outright.

[RestosIII]

Deathlike, on 05 January 2017 - 10:29 PM, said:

Clan players were already having that fit when they applied the agility reduction for losing a side torso.. part of which existed in the lore.

So, this wouldn't have been the first nor will it be the last.

First of all, is anyone still complaining about that? I haven't seen it in a really goddamn long time. Second, can y'all chill and stop throwing "Clan players" everywhere, like every pilot who loves the Clans is part of some concentrated effort to be munchkins?

[Snazzy Dragon]

There will always be a complaining party because people hate change but the reality is that IS mechs need buffs to achieve parity, without resorting to making everything function the same. I, for one, love how unique the IS LPL feels compared to the Clan LPL. Both have very different roles but are close to balanced with each other.

[Hit the Deck]

Deathlike, on 05 January 2017 - 10:29 PM, said:

...
Clan XLs are still superior, and that 1 crit diff is a minor issue compared to the tonnage savings.

LFE doesn't fix the balance woes.. it simple obsoletes the STD engine outright.

cXL are still superior which is true, like many of other Clan equipments.

That 1 crit determines whether you can put something or not, e.g. a Hunchback can take AC/20 on the RT with an LFE but not with isXL.

It may not bring parity without quirks but it gives IS more options against the Clan, a way which I prefer rather than straight up making isXL behaves like Clan's.

As for the value of STD, it depends on how valuable STD-builds like 5x AC/5 Mauler or Brawling Atlas are.

[Tristan Winter]

Prosperity Park, on 05 January 2017 - 03:47 PM, said:

So, before you suggest ways to balance the game, ALWAYS imagine yourself playing BOTH SIDES of the conflict and ask if the game would be fun for you and your enemies, alike

Or have both an IS and Clan account and join the Illuminati.

[Gaden Phoenix]

Tristan Winter, on 06 January 2017 - 12:18 AM, said:

Or have both an IS and Clan account and join the Illuminati.

I play both Clan and IS mech extensively and I always feel that Clan is better at the current Range Peek a Boo meta.

By the time the IS mechs have advanced to their optimal range of engagement alot of the match, fight and damage has already been done.

Edited by Gaden Phoenix, 06 January 2017 - 12:40 AM.

[Jungle Rhino]

Game was better in closed beta with SHS - wind it back to 3025 - way more fun!!!

[Tristan Winter]

Gaden Phoenix, on 06 January 2017 - 12:20 AM, said:

I play both Clan and IS mech extensively and I always feel that Clan is better at the current Range Peek a Boo meta.

This seems to be the consensus among the people who play both sides.

[Nik Reaper]

Deathlike, on 05 January 2017 - 10:29 PM, said:

....

LFE doesn't fix the balance woes.. it simple obsoletes the STD engine outright.

True, but it does alleviate them and mby with some more moderate quriks it could become some kind of "balance" , and at this point one could say IS XLs have already obsoleted standard engines, as you will use an XL in everything that can fit it unless it's a rare brawler or an AC20 in a side torso mech... or a lrm stalker... so a rarity or a really bad idea X) .

Edited by Nik Reaper, 06 January 2017 - 03:52 AM.

[Otto Cannon]

The lore is incredibly important to Mechwarrior games, but whether they're fun to play depends on how it's applied.

The question is whether you stick to the letter of the lore, or the spirit of the lore.

If sticking to the exact stats or mechanics in too many areas makes the game balance feel wrong or matches less fun then I'm in favour of allowing something like XL engines to be changed. As long as clan and IS mechs still feel different in the right ways the spirit of the game is preserved.

[Mystere]

RestosIII, on 05 January 2017 - 10:37 PM, said:

First of all, is anyone still complaining about that? I haven't seen it in a really goddamn long time. Second, can y'all chill and stop throwing "Clan players" everywhere, like every pilot who loves the Clans is part of some concentrated effort to be munchkins?

Judging people by the color of their skin, religious beliefs, or ethnic background -- or in MWO's case, their faction tag -- seems to be fully back in fashion. Two very specific elections last year showed that and more elections this year will most likely do the same.

Jungle Rhino, on 06 January 2017 - 12:26 AM, said:

Game was better in closed beta with SHS - wind it back to 3025 - way more fun!!!

Is your bank account sufficient enough to compensate anyone and everyone who bought post-3025 Mechs and gear?

Otto Cannon, on 06 January 2017 - 07:25 AM, said:

The question is whether you stick to the letter of the lore, or the spirit of the lore.

It has been my observation that quite a large number have a problem doing the latter.

Edited by Mystere, 06 January 2017 - 12:02 PM.

[Deathlike]

RestosIII, on 05 January 2017 - 10:37 PM, said:

First of all, is anyone still complaining about that? I haven't seen it in a really goddamn long time. Second, can y'all chill and stop throwing "Clan players" everywhere, like every pilot who loves the Clans is part of some concentrated effort to be munchkins?

Yes, but I probably shouldn't say "Clan players" necessarily... but people holding onto "lore/TT" to the detriment of gameplay and/or balance (holding onto overwhelming lopsided tech like CERMEDs and comparing them to the IS MED is a total and utter farce).

Nik Reaper, on 06 January 2017 - 03:51 AM, said:

True, but it does alleviate them and mby with some more moderate quriks it could become some kind of "balance" , and at this point one could say IS XLs have already obsoleted standard engines, as you will use an XL in everything that can fit it unless it's a rare brawler or an AC20 in a side torso mech... or a lrm stalker... so a rarity or a really bad idea X) .

IS XLs don't replace the STD engine that is effectively mandatory on some mechs, like the Atlas and Stalker.

[Shiroi Tsuki]

Everyone is selfish to some degree.
But cheesiness aside, I've noticed that I typically do well and most of the times survive in my Clanners more often than I do in my IS.
Though, I honestly still prefer IS since they have more character and feel unique. I feel like I have more potential in IS Mechs than I do in Clanners.

[Karl Streiger]

A general mistake seems to happen - when people say Fu The Lore - I have to ask wich Fuing Lore?

Are you talking about Table Top Values - Table Top Values is not the Lore

Lore is - a 0.1sec blue - violet pulse for the Sunglow Type 2 Laser (or similar)
Lore is the feel not the number

You can have lore with AC20s reaching 2-4km.
Lore is the faction - the meaning of planets..

Look we have 2-3 1/2 different table top rule sets all are derivatives of the lore
We have
CBT
S7
Battkeforce
Battle Space
Alpha Strike

Each with different weapon ranges, heat and damage, scale and armor distribution

So it's not Fu The Lore it's screw the 1:1 CBT values.

[PhoenixFire55]

Prosperity Park, on 05 January 2017 - 03:47 PM, said:

So, before you suggest ways to balance the game, ALWAYS imagine yourself playing BOTH SIDES of the conflict and ask if the game would be fun for you and your enemies, alike

I do. I imagine playing a stock UrbanMech and paying 500k for R&R when it gets blown up, and then I imagine playing a customized TBR and paying 5m for R&R when it gets blown up. But nope, too many bads around thats why we can't have all the nice things like actual proper BT balancing.