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Proposal: Change To Mercenary Reward System.

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#1 nehebkau

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Posted 26 December 2016 - 09:57 AM

Rational
In all stories, the unfailing truth about being a mercenary was that life was hard. If you were the best mercenary you had it all but if you were just average – you could expect a life of scarcity where you just barely earn a living or, more likely, spiral down into nothingness. Mercenaries recognized and accepted it as a gamble that they made in exchange for the freedom to make their own way. Making it as a mercenary was a demonstration of how exceptional you were and failing at being a mercenary was the norm.

Secondly, as Russ pointed out, Mercenary units can really sway the balance of the game based on where they want to play. As it stands now, there is minimal incentive to be a loyalist and much disincentive to be one. Likewise there is only incentive to be a mercenary. In that way the game rewards players for playing the mercenary as they can move around and play the tides of population. We have seen, time and time again, how mercenaries have shown the strength of numbers as they have moved from one side to the other. It would be silly to get rid of all mercenaries, as they do provide challenge to the game and some level of immersion but it should be that only the strong units are able to survive.

Lastly, being a mercenary is a thankless job – so no mercenary should earn a planet tag – after all they are winning for their employer not themselves (aside from the buckets of money). If a mercenary wants an MC reward they should have to earn it by winning consistently.

Basis of Change to the game:
The only reason someone wants to have a mercenary fight for them is to get results. You are paying for results, you expect results and if you don’t get results you don’t pay them. More often than not, you pay the mercenary when the job is done and you expect them to have what they need to do the job. How does that equate in MWO? You pay mercenaries to win and that's it.

Actual Changes to the game:

Buy-in. Mercenaries would have to front their initial costs of dropping in a FW match. The amount can be adjusted based on the population differences and the in-game economy but for a mercenary to drop in a game they must pay a set amount of cbills from their personal wallet (maybe unit pays a little too?). One can call this the payment fixed costs of running your own mechs, dropships etc. You have to consider, with a mercenary unit, you don’t have the resources or tax-base of a system of planets to support your warmongering ways.

For example: (This is ONLY an example.) To drop in scouting a mercenary would need to pay $50,000 cbills. To drop in FW, a Mercenary would need to pay $200,000 cbills.






Pay-out. The last people you want to piss off are the mercenaries you hire, lest they turn on you and fight for your enemies. As a consequence, when mercenaries “do the job” they must be compensated to the point where they believe that sticking with their current employer is going to be more profitable than fighting for your enemy. In this case, when a mercenary fights in a match they should get:

For a win:

Their cbill buy-in refunded.

Win payout in the amount of their buy-in

Match performance payout in the amount of 2x normal. (stuff you do in the match that earns cbills)

Experience pay-out in the amount of 2x gxp, 2x mech exp.

Payout of 1 MC. (value can be adjusted/ Invasion only?/not scouting? (This compensates for not being able to have planet tags)

For a loss:

No refund of buy-in

No payout of cbills for loss

No match performance pay-out

Normal experience payout.

No MC payout





Bidding war. Allow IS and CLAN players to contribute to a bidding war to try to entice mercenaries over to their side by letting IS and CLAN loyalists pay money into a fund that would increase the win payout for mercenaries. A specific amount of cbills would be required to raise the multiplier by 1 point. For example, if 50,000,000 cbills is raised the win multiplier would go from 2x for a win to 3x – and so on (maybe an MC bonus and/or gxp bonus?). This would give players, on the loyalist side, some control over swinging balance back in their favor. If a bid is lost, the cbills contributed are lost as well (so there is a risk associated with making a bid).


How would this look , in game? You would still have the high-caliber mercenary units doing exceptionally well, better than they are currently doing in regards to money and exp, however, there would be far more pressure for members of mercenary units and the unit itself to do well. Players who can’t make it would need to be dumped. Likewise, mediocre mercenary units would quickly find that being a mercenary is a very unprofitable way to operate. Either they would need to play more QP matches to build up their finances and skills or switch to an easier and much safer loyalist life.

The Results desired:
Were this to work properly, you would have a few, smaller, very skilled mercenary units in the game who, would still provide a massive boost to the side they are fighting for. You would find that mercenary size would decrease but their skill would have to increase. In essence, the mercenary life would become the domain of only the most skilled and/or crazy of MWO players. Gamble big/win big. Likewise mercenaries are going to have far more incentive to group up since their pay-out is going to be very dependent of the quality of people they are dropping with.

The goal to of this being to have far more people on the loyalist track providing a little more stability vis-à-vis population change while making the mercenary life the true hard-core, end-game component of FW. With this setup, if you are maintaining a 1 to 1 win/loss ratio you are not going to get anywhere as a mercenary.

Things to consider:
There would also need to be some cost to the unit itself as well as a reward to the unit – this might be a smaller fee payed out by the unit for each drop in FW as well as a refund to the unit itself for a win or something that causes a mercenary unit to continuously lose money and earn money based on the performance of its members -- but I haven't worked that out yet. Mediocre players and units would hate this with a passion as it would basically force them to choose to live broke or join a loyalist side. There would be much anguish over ‘not being able to use all my mechs’. They loyalist side ranking system would need to be improved – it is pretty easy to max out at rank 20 and once you hit that you get squat. It might also be necessary to set fixed contract duration for mercenary units, like 2 or 4 weeks to prevent exploiting the bidding system and to allow for enough time for loyalist players to contribute significantly to the bidding coffer. One of the arguments are that you are paying for the pilots and that the house should pay the costs of fighting the war (providing guns and ammo) however, you are actually paying for the pilot, the mechs and their ability to fight with them which includes ammo/dropships etc which this would account for. I am sure there are other things I have failed to consider.

But its not like PGI is going to read this and if they do not consider it.


EDIT
The reason I chose this was I thought that it would be something that PGI could easily implement.

Edited by nehebkau, 28 December 2016 - 12:09 PM.


#2 Bud Crue

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Posted 26 December 2016 - 10:51 AM

View Postnehebkau, on 26 December 2016 - 09:57 AM, said:

Neb's Merc Idea


I like the idea and the motivation behind it. Two big issues that I see being problematic, and both related to the bidding war aspect:

1) There is no way that PGI would ever put in the effort or create some sort of bank management system to keep track of this flow of c-bills. They can't be bothered to give us a reason to have unit coffers at all, except as a negative motivator for adding members to a unit. If doing more than that has historically been beyond their efforts or abilities then I can't see them managing some sort of far more fluid community bank for the purpose you propose.

2) There would be nothing to stop folks (particularly those in large units) from simply creating loyalist branches/alts that act to fund and attract their merc branch/alts to their fights, thus gaming the system. Folks right now have Clan and IS alts and I think this would have to be prohibited under your system or else that "alt" gaming of it would be inevitable; and I can't see PGI banning the use of IS and Clan alts.

Thus, I think ya gotta dump the bidding war aspect, and I think this could fly.

But this is just an academic exercise that PGI could good give to farts about, so what the hell.

Edit: Did you give any thought to allowing mercs to run both techs as an additional benefit? I think given the risk/reward involved such an additional motivator might not be a bad idea. Just a thought.

Edited by Bud Crue, 26 December 2016 - 10:54 AM.


#3 Maker L106

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Posted 26 December 2016 - 11:34 AM

This. This right here would be amazing. A reason to do ANYTHING.

#4 Grimrawr

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Posted 26 December 2016 - 11:39 AM

One incentive toward loyalist units would be differentiating requirements to "garrison" (claim a captured) a planet.

For example, for each claimed planet the win participation requirements to claim the next planet increases at different rates for loyalist (easier) vs merc units (harder) so as to better distribute the rewards to participating loyalist vs merc units.

This would also better reflect the loyalty and trust of loyal house units vs mercs who can simply end their contract.

Edited by Grimrawr, 26 December 2016 - 11:40 AM.


#5 nehebkau

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Posted 26 December 2016 - 01:53 PM

View PostBud Crue, on 26 December 2016 - 10:51 AM, said:

Edit: Did you give any thought to allowing mercs to run both techs as an additional benefit? I think given the risk/reward involved such an additional motivator might not be a bad idea. Just a thought.


No, I didnt -- however it would fit with the general mercenary style -- they fight with what they have and If that is a Kodiak and they are working for davion -- so be it.

As far as using alt-accounts. If they are that motivated to play the time required on alt accounts to skew the bidding process then let them -- you would make it a high enough amount that a faction could do it easily but a unit, on its own, couldn't do it more than once every several months.


Not like PGI is even bothering with this.

Edited by nehebkau, 26 December 2016 - 02:04 PM.


#6 exiledangel

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 01:36 PM

brilliant idea only problem we would b here 5 years from now waiting or it still if they said 90 days

PGI couldn't keep a promise if they tried. A lot of the stuff the promised was left out because it was to hard to code with this platform. so they abandon anything that s 2 hard to do.

Edited by exiledangel, 10 January 2017 - 01:37 PM.


#7 BLOOD WOLF

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 01:40 PM

View Postexiledangel, on 10 January 2017 - 01:36 PM, said:


PGI couldn't keep a promise if they tried.

Trolls of 2017. I am gonna try hard to put facts and reality in their faces, but it may be a lost cause.

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 10 January 2017 - 01:40 PM.


#8 nehebkau

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 06:39 AM

View PostBLOOD WOLF, on 10 January 2017 - 01:40 PM, said:

Trolls of 2017. I am gonna try hard to put facts and reality in their faces, but it may be a lost cause.


I think people are going on PGI's past record as a determination of future performance. Having said that, I believe PGI could do this fairly easily -- which is why i suggested it.

#9 PJohann

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 09:26 AM

Quote

for a mercenary to drop in a game they must pay a set amount of cbills

And noone will play as merc Posted Image

#10 gloowa

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 02:19 PM

Brilliant. Not only will pugs get stomped into the ground, they wil loose money and not gain exp.

That might actually kill FP faster then Long Tom did. Implement tomorrow Russ, it's bound to work.

<sigh>

Edited by gloowa, 11 January 2017 - 02:20 PM.


#11 Commander A9

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 03:33 PM

Some interesting ideas, sure, but If I'm understanding you properly...you want a system where mercenaries pay to play Faction Warfare? That I can't agree with.

I'm not going to dismiss the entire chain of ideas, but paying to drop, I can't align with that.

Because, why should the mercenaries pay, but not the freelancer, especially if the loyalist is having his faction transport him around for free?

#12 Insanity09

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 08:18 PM

I cannot see charging a merc player to drop. That sounds like a bad move, as stated by folks above. They took out repair and re-arm costs for a similar reason, didn't they?

I can see a point to denying mercs the loss reward consolation prize, but they should still get the payouts for all the damage, kills, etc, they do in a match. After all, you still need to pay them for what they did do.
However, the tiny drop in cbills for mercs as a result of that change would neither deter mercs, nor encourage loyalists (who would keep getting loss payments).

As for making changes to actually improve merc xp and cbill rewards for a win, that strikes me as excessive and unnecessary. We don't need more encouragement for people to play mercs (the game does need some loyalists).

#13 nehebkau

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 08:23 PM

View PostCommander A9, on 11 January 2017 - 03:33 PM, said:

Some interesting ideas, sure, but If I'm understanding you properly...you want a system where mercenaries pay to play Faction Warfare? That I can't agree with.

I'm not going to dismiss the entire chain of ideas, but paying to drop, I can't align with that.

Because, why should the mercenaries pay, but not the freelancer, especially if the loyalist is having his faction transport him around for free?


A MERC PAYS TO DROP. IF THEY WIN, THEY GET 2X THE DROP VALUE BACK, THEY LOSE THEY GET NOTHING BACK.... PERFORMANCE BASED PAY FOR A PERFORMANCE BASED CAREER.

Basically it is meant to make people who are CRAPPY mercenaries not profit being mercenary, however, those players and teams who are great mecenaries would regain a S**t-ton of money for winning. Basically it makes mercenary the elite path and, yes, forces the potato to either drop less in FW as a mercenary or pick a side.

As it stands now there is NO drawback to being a mercenary and there should be a HUGE disadvantage for crappy merc groups and a HUGE advantage to merc groups who are good. It puts the onus on merc groups to WIN. Only mercenaries who wouldn't like this are the ones who have difficulty pulling a win out when they are in a 12-man.

Would it kill FW? No, it would force more (granted mediocre) people into loyalist units and stabilize the population. The only thing it would kill are average mercenary units who would either have to step-up their game (either by getting better or dropping poor players) or consistently lose money for being a losing mercenary.

MWO treats mercenaries as precious little snowflakes right now and they should be the hardest of the hardcore in the game.

View PostInsanity09, on 11 January 2017 - 08:18 PM, said:

As for making changes to actually improve merc xp and cbill rewards for a win, that strikes me as excessive and unnecessary. We don't need more encouragement for people to play mercs (the game does need some loyalists).


This would be a deterrent to be a merc unless you were VERY good. If you win you are showered with riches, you lose -- they take your body out back of the coliseum and dump it in the trash.

Edited by nehebkau, 11 January 2017 - 08:27 PM.






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