52 replies to this topic

[Xmith]

El Bandito, on 09 January 2017 - 04:41 AM, said:

I shut down once after being NARCed. Didn't stop the LRMs coming from over the hill. So I am skeptical of the whole "shut down to negate NARC" argument.

Shutting down will not keep narc from being active. Missles follow the narc signal until it stops transmitting.

I believe narc stays active way too long. The time narc is active should be cut at least 10 seconds.

[SQW]

OMG, Narc is sooooo good!

The the next logical step is all you narc nerfers to use narcs before PGI wise up and nerf it right? Right? I thought so - a bunch of brawlers crying when the other side refuse to face time their tooled up metas.

I run Narc Rvn-3L exclusively and let me tell you, even on Polar, it's not an easy thing if the other side plays remotely intelligent. Do you know what a narcer love? Big assaults that hide just behind ridges doing sniping and remain stationary half of the game AND spend every moment staring directly forward at max zoom.

Against a good team with situation awareness, I'm lucky to pop off a narc at 550m before retreating. Against people on this thread, I think I can narc half of your team while remain hidden.

Edited by SQW, 09 January 2017 - 03:54 PM.

[Fox With A Shotgun]

NARCs:

- Travel like a flying brick with ramjets pushing in the other direction
- Have very limited ammunition per ton
- Weigh a lot for mechs that can effectively use them (4+ tons on a light mech is very, very significant)
- Are jammed by enemy ECM unless you hit the ECM mech(s)
- Not even guaranteed that your team has enough LRM to capitalise on the NARC

There's an awful lot of negatives for the NARC. It's not a very easy thing to use at all; and let's face it, the only map that it really causes extreme amounts of havoc in is Polar Highlands. Every other map has significant amounts of tall cover available, which you really shouldn't stray too far from in the first place. The best counterplay you have is a light mech picket force that's quite far out from your vulnerable assault mechs, as nailing a light mech with a NARC is probably harder than hitting them with an AC20 round at max range. Suppressive fire when you see the NARCer coming is also an option, as usually it's a fragile light mech carrying the NARC. As is aggressive play after the NARC has come down on someone on your team.

Let's face it. NARC is extremely effective at combating teams that are timid. When push comes to shove, LRM boats, which are the primary cause of tears when it comes to NARCs, will fold under a hard push. If they continue to rain LRMs on the NARCed guy, the rest of the team can push hard while they tunnel vision on the guy with the NARC. After all, that's one guy they're locked on to and staring for the whole duration of the NARC beacon.

[Pjwned]

ThatNumbGuy, on 09 January 2017 - 02:11 PM, said:

Since the patch that allowed Narcs to counter ECM, PGI gave Narc beacons the exact same powers that Active Probes have with a radius of 0. And just like you can't shut down to escape detection from an Active Probe user, the same is true for Narcs.

Now AFAIK, that property has not changed since that patch. Perhaps you can test it with a friend in a private match to see if that property is still true.

Well...that would explain it then, I wasn't aware of that. I swear that shutting down against NARC used to work before it was changed a while ago and I didn't realize it turned into a BAP beacon as well.

I knew that "locking onto the NARC beacon" was BS though.

[Fox With A Shotgun]

Pjwned, on 09 January 2017 - 04:26 PM, said:

Well...that would explain it then, I wasn't aware of that. I swear that shutting down against NARC used to work before it was changed a while ago and I didn't realize it turned into a BAP beacon as well.

I think it's been like that for as long as I can remember. It's not a recent change; NARC worked even against a shutdown mech for yonks.

[Pjwned]

Fox With A Shotgun, on 09 January 2017 - 04:05 PM, said:

NARCs:

- Travel like a flying brick with ramjets pushing in the other direction
- Have very limited ammunition per ton
- Weigh a lot for mechs that can effectively use them (4+ tons on a light mech is very, very significant)
- Are jammed by enemy ECM unless you hit the ECM mech(s)
- Not even guaranteed that your team has enough LRM to capitalise on the NARC

There's an awful lot of negatives for the NARC. It's not a very easy thing to use at all; and let's face it, the only map that it really causes extreme amounts of havoc in is Polar Highlands. Every other map has significant amounts of tall cover available, which you really shouldn't stray too far from in the first place. The best counterplay you have is a light mech picket force that's quite far out from your vulnerable assault mechs, as nailing a light mech with a NARC is probably harder than hitting them with an AC20 round at max range. Suppressive fire when you see the NARCer coming is also an option, as usually it's a fragile light mech carrying the NARC. As is aggressive play after the NARC has come down on someone on your team.

Let's face it. NARC is extremely effective at combating teams that are timid. When push comes to shove, LRM boats, which are the primary cause of tears when it comes to NARCs, will fold under a hard push. If they continue to rain LRMs on the NARCed guy, the rest of the team can push hard while they tunnel vision on the guy with the NARC. After all, that's one guy they're locked on to and staring for the whole duration of the NARC beacon.

Those last 2 drawbacks would be alleviated (or even eliminated) by nerfing the **** out of ECM, which is something that's been sorely needed for a long time now.

Fox With A Shotgun, on 09 January 2017 - 04:29 PM, said:

I think it's been like that for as long as I can remember. It's not a recent change; NARC worked even against a shutdown mech for yonks.

I could be wrong too, but I guess it doesn't matter much either way.

[Galenit]

The6thMessenger, on 09 January 2017 - 02:25 AM, said:

NARC is literally a death sentence to slow assaults, cause the main counter is to not get hit in the first place.

So i propose two counters:

1.) Shutdown

This allows mechs to completely negate the NARC, but at the cost of actually being out of the fight for about 20s, longer with quirks. A lot can happen during that time, also maybe none in a massive map like polar highlands where the distance is usually large.

2.) Consumable

A one-time consumable can be fair enough, cause that is just a single chance of being free from a NARC. It's also not a guarantee that you'll get narced every match so that's one locked consumable slot.

1. Just wait for around 60 seconds if a raven comes with a narc-module ...
2. My raven carrys 24 beacons, no problem if you can can flush one ...

3. Take ams with overload and let it kill the beacons.

Edited by Galenit, 09 January 2017 - 07:56 PM.

[Galenit]

GrimRiver, on 09 January 2017 - 11:20 AM, said:

Better idea, make single AMS more viable.

All mechs with single AMS slot gets a boost to it's ROF and damage.

Do you even know that there are two modules that boost ams?

Edited by Galenit, 09 January 2017 - 07:54 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

Jables McBarty, on 09 January 2017 - 09:27 AM, said:

I hate the NARC Kill--it only counts if the 'mech dies from LRMs while NARC'd. 95% of damage done by LRMs, but killed by a single SL? No reward for you!

Streaks also count, guided missile. SRMs don't count.


I did a drop with a few guys in my unit a while back. IS LRMs & CSSRM mix with a Narc.
Oh the LULz we had, and the salt that flowed from the other side.

The NARC'er ended up having a 400k cbill game. (also had a TAG)

[Navy Sixes]

Jungle Rhino, on 09 January 2017 - 03:25 AM, said:

Honestly how many times does annybody get NARC'd and killed? ...Sure it is a giant pain in the butt when it happens but it doesn't seem all that common to me. ...Given the low incidence of you ever dying or taking serious damage due to NARC it there seems to be an unduly large amount of wailing and gnashing going on.

Tangentially related, let 2-man groups into the solo queue and watch the NARC/LRM slaughter commence...

[GrimRiver]

Jungle Rhino, on 09 January 2017 - 12:59 PM, said:

PGI could even make a module for that! Oh hang on...

Galenit, on 09 January 2017 - 07:54 PM, said:

Do you even know that there are two modules that boost ams?

I know, but those mods are for AMS as a whole.

I'm talking about single AMS slot mechs to be given a reason to bring AMS and the AMS mods would be a added bonus.

Dual slot or tri slot AMS mechs won't get any bonuses except for the AMS mods itself.

[Galenit]

GrimRiver, on 09 January 2017 - 09:59 PM, said:

I know, but those mods are for AMS as a whole.

I'm talking about single AMS slot mechs to be given a reason to bring AMS and the AMS mods would be a added bonus.

Dual slot or tri slot AMS mechs won't get any bonuses except for the AMS mods itself.

AMS gets better if there are more ams,
and thats a reason to bring a single ams,
every single ams adds to the effectivnes of all ams in range.

Teamgame you know,
one ams mech with 4,5 tons for ams or 3 mechs each with 1,5 tons for ams.

Edited by Galenit, 10 January 2017 - 03:54 AM.

[I_AM_ZUUL]

Galenit, on 10 January 2017 - 03:07 AM, said:

AMS gets better if there are more ams,
and thats a reason to bring a single ams,
every single ams adds to the effectivnes of all ams in range.

Teamgame you know,
one ams mech with 4,5 tons for ams or 3 mechs each with 1,5 tons for ams.

HERESY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is a FPS game and only the most meta PPFLD builds are to be used... Role Warfare, Tactical Movement, or Cooperative Positioning shall never be mentioned. cERPPC/cGuass and Git Gudd!!!