30 replies to this topic

[FupDup]

The Heavy Gauss is only supposed to deal a maximum of 25 damage, and that's just at 180 meters. At 390 meters it does 20 and at 600 meters it deals just 10.

[MechaBattler]

They're already hitting the Gauss rifles with nerfs from every direction. I I wouldn't be surprised that if they do implement the H.Gauss, that it's got even more draw backs. You can bet they won't let you fire more than one.

[CK16]

Keep in mind by lore the Heavy Gauss required the Mech to be going a slower speed, if not completely stationary. The recoil was enough that it would knockover even a Fafnir....

So for balance sake, they should have to be going pretty dang slow or completely stopped. IF you start charging your mech slows to a crawl or you have to stop your self.

Also only able to fire 1 at at time instead of 2.

[Variant1]

more weapons is always welcome. Hopefully with the heavy gauss well get the fafnir soon

[Y E O N N E]

I would almost rather they can the Heavy Gauss and skip straight to the Improved Heavy Gauss, but those extra two tons are brutal.

[Gentleman Reaper]

For the Heavy Gauss and Improved Heavy Gauss I was thinking along the lines of this:

Heavy Gauss Rifle (IS):
Mass: 18 tons
Slots: 11
Item health: 10
Explode on destruction: Yes
Explosion damage: 30
Charge to fire: disabled
Damage: 25
Cooldown: 6
DPS: 4.17
Heat: 2
Speed: 950
Optimal range: 360 meters
Max range: 1080 meters
Ammo per ton: 8

Improved Heavy Gauss Rifle (IS):
Mass: 20 tons
Slots: 11
Item health: 10
Explode on destruction: Yes
Explosion damage: 30
Charge to fire: disabled
Damage: 22
Cooldown: 6
DPS: 3.67
Heat: 2
Speed: 1200
Optimal range: 540 meters
Max range: 1620 meters
Ammo per ton: 8

I'm imagining only the Clan Gauss having charge to offset the weight advantage

Edited by Gentleman Reaper, 14 January 2017 - 01:58 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

No charge? Velocity comparable to an AC/10 or AC/5?

Doesn't seem much like a Gauss Rifle to me. More like AC/25 and AC/22, and with an optimal of 360 there's no way I'm ever taking the AC/25 over an AC/20 or even an isUAC/20 with those resource costs.

[Snazzy Dragon]

The damage falloff at range is brutal on heavy gauss. I say just dramatically decrease agility while they charge to make peeking around with them much more difficult. No need to restrict them to charging one at a time-- they're IS only and weigh a metric ****ton. They can't be put in side torsos with an XL either so if LFE isn't added the weight devotion would be enough of a balancing factor.

Edited by Snazzy Dragon, 14 January 2017 - 02:06 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Snazzy Dragon, on 14 January 2017 - 01:44 PM, said:

The damage falloff at range is brutal on heavy gauss. I say just dramatically decrease agility while thy charge to make peeking around with them much more difficult. No need to restrict them to charging one at a time-- they're IS only and weigh a metric ****ton. They can't be put in side torsos with an XL either so if LFE isn't added the weight devotion would be enough of a balancing factor.

You can't even use them with LFE. Side torsos have 12 slots, total, and the two HGauss versions both require 11.

[Gentleman Reaper]

Yeonne Greene, on 14 January 2017 - 01:38 PM, said:

No charge? Velocity comparable to an AC/10 or AC/5?

Doesn't seem much like a Gauss Rifle to me. More like AC/25 and AC/22, and with an optimal of 360 there's no way I'm ever taking the AC/25 over an AC/20 or even an isUAC/20 with those resource costs.

The Heavy Gauss doesn't maintain its damage and effectiveness at a long range, although my version has 3x optimal max range, so you still get much better range than the AC/20. Given than you get an extremely low heat weapon that deals more damage than an AC/20 with the range profile similar to an AC/10, I'd say it's a good brawling weapon.

[Bombast]

If it were me, I'd just set the HGR's damage at 25, it's effective range at 300ish meters (390 maybe?), and let MWOs regular max range mechanic handle it's diminishing damage effect.

Also, how was your minimum range going to work?

[Y E O N N E]

Gentleman Reaper, on 14 January 2017 - 02:04 PM, said:

The Heavy Gauss doesn't maintain its damage and effectiveness at a long range, although my version has 3x optimal max range, so you still get much better range than the AC/20. Given than you get an extremely low heat weapon that deals more damage than an AC/20 with the range profile similar to an AC/10, I'd say it's a good brawling weapon.

I wouldn't say that. The AC/20 cycles in 4 seconds, is lighter (!), is smaller (!), and brawls so much better than your rendition of the HGauss that I have zero incentive to take the latter. Even the max range is kind of irrelevant because the projectile is too slow and because it's going to do less damage at 660 meters than a standard Gauss...which is also lighter and smaller and has more than twice the projectile velocity.

Your Improved HGauss is a little better, but not by much considering it's even heavier. There's really no in-game reason to take your interpretation of Heavy Gauss, it's just too gimped. It can't do anything well enough that I'd want it over existing options. I'd actually remove it from any 'Mech it's on.

[Bombast]

Promessa, on 14 January 2017 - 02:20 PM, said:

Minimum range would work the same as a ppc suppose.

...

No.

[Gentleman Reaper]

Yeonne Greene, on 14 January 2017 - 02:12 PM, said:

I wouldn't say that. The AC/20 cycles in 4 seconds, is lighter (!), is smaller (!), and brawls so much better than your rendition of the HGauss that I have zero incentive to take the latter. Even the max range is kind of irrelevant because the projectile is too slow and because it's going to do less damage at 660 meters than a standard Gauss...which is also lighter and smaller and has more than twice the projectile velocity.

Your Improved HGauss is a little better, but not by much considering it's even heavier. There's really no in-game reason to take your interpretation of Heavy Gauss, it's just too gimped. It can't do anything well enough that I'd want it over existing options. I'd actually remove it from any 'Mech it's on.

Yea, I'm considering increasing the velocity, perhaps to 1200m/s? With the Improved version at 1500 or 1600m/s

[Y E O N N E]

Gentleman Reaper, on 14 January 2017 - 02:30 PM, said:

Yea, I'm considering increasing the velocity, perhaps to 1200m/s? With the Improved version at 1500 or 1600m/s

I'd rather velocity and charge (I like the charge mechanic for itself, not just for balancing reasons) be the things that make Gauss Rifles what they are. At a cursory glance, 1750m/s, no lower. Cycle time of 6.75 seconds, with charge of 0.75. Optimum of 540 meters, max at 1080. Damage anywhere between 20 and 25 and I'm good.

Also need to bear in mind that if you leave its range too short, it is extremely vulnerable to overrun. It's not a good enough poke weapon to be so pigeon-holed by virtue of its inherent resource restrictions, it needs to have some reach.

[NeoCodex]

inb4 they nerf HGR to one shot per time after Fafnir gets release for cbills you heared it hear first. You can "preorder" it to "balance test" it for the first few months, before they "notice" that double HGR Fafnirs are performing a bit too well.

[Lykaon]

The trick would be to design a weapon that isn't obsolete on release because either a Class 20 AC or normal Gauss would be a better choice.

So if the H-Gauss has a charge mechanic like a standard Gauss but the damage drops off rapidly so the standard gauss has a more flexable and effective engagment range why use the H-Gauss for a relativley tiny range window where it's better?

Also if the H-Gauss has it's charge and cooldown cycles lengthened beyond a standard gauss and the H-Gauss has the damage drop off at range why use it over an I.S. UAC20?

If the H-Gauss gives you speed or manuvering penalties while charging and the I.S. UAC20 doesn't why use the H-Gauss if it's totally out classed in brawling ranges by other options?

These are issue that need to addressed or we will likely get a weapon system that isn't as good at long range as a standard Gauss and isn't competative with class 20 ACs in brawling ranges and the tiny envelope of overlap performance between the two roles is so miniscule why bother.

[LordMelvin]

If HGauss slows you down when you fire almost no one will use it. The loss of speed would make you a sitting duck, and at the proposed ranges you can't afford to be slow or you'll be eaten alive. Compounded by the fact that most of the mechs that will be running HGauss will be assaults, so you'll be slow to start.

What if the actual charge was slower if you are moving over a certain speed. That way if you need to abort the shot or move you aren't trapped in the open.

[Brain Cancer]

Yeonne Greene, on 14 January 2017 - 01:46 PM, said:

You can't even use them with LFE. Side torsos have 12 slots, total, and the two HGauss versions both require 11.

If MWO actually functioned by standard construction rules, you can even fit an HGauss with an IS XL, as it (and the AC/20, and LB-20X) all legally can be mounted in two or even three adjacent sections, while using the worst firing arc of the combination.

In MWO terms, this would mean a split-mount always fires from the torso crosshair.

[R Valentine]

180m, 2 fire at a time max, massive self induced cockpit shake after each shot.

They're meh, just like every other civil war gun.