46 replies to this topic

[Hit the Deck]

Primarily, about how to make them able to hit anything at their intended range which is 450m.

Remember that they have penalty to hit which PGI would want to simulate, perhaps by widening their spread but this exacerbates the problem of being able to hit something at range.

One suggestion I still remember is to copy MW:LL's method that you can guide the missiles by wire in flight by simply pointing with the crosshair. Regarding this, CK16 pointed out that they are unguided missiles as shown in the TROs.

They would compete with SRMs so making them fly faster could be a bad solution.

What are your thoughts?

[Tristan Winter]

Won't they just be SRMs with extra range and lower DPS and/or DPH?

I don't mind if they move at 400 m/s. You may not be able to hit much at 450 meters, except Dire Wolves and King Crabs, but it would be nice to hit targets at ~350 meters.

[roboPrancer]

How about an army of tiny kamikaze gnomes that flies each missile into their target?

[cazidin]

Tristan Winter, on 18 January 2017 - 11:30 AM, said:

Won't they just be SRMs with extra range and lower DPS and/or DPH?

I don't mind if they move at 400 m/s. You may not be able to hit much at 450 meters, except Dire Wolves and King Crabs, but it would be nice to hit targets at ~350 meters.

They're basically very heavy SRMs with a LOT more missiles. My guess is that PGI will balance them by making them wild and inaccurate.

[Metus regem]

Hit the Deck, on 18 January 2017 - 11:25 AM, said:

Primarily, about how to make them able to hit anything at their intended range which is 450m.

Remember that they have penalty to hit which PGI would want to simulate, perhaps by widening their spread but this exacerbates the problem of being able to hit something at range.

One suggestion I still remember is to copy MW:LL's method that you can guide the missiles by wire in flight by simply pointing with the crosshair. Regarding this, CK16 pointed out that they are unguided missiles as shown in the TROs.

They would compete with SRMs so making them fly faster could be a bad solution.

What are your thoughts?

That's a tricky one, as LB's in TT actually make it easier to hit with Cluster rounds (-1 to hit), yet MRM's give a penalty to hit (+1 to hit), yet in MWO the old LB spread pattern actually made it difficult to use LB's out past 150m, so perhaps look at using that spread pattern again? I always though LB's should;ve been canister shot.... see this for referance:

http://mwomercs.com/...b-10x-proposal/

roboPrancer, on 18 January 2017 - 11:31 AM, said:

How about an army of tiny kamikaze gnomes that flies each missile into their target?

That's Ork tech from WH/40k....

[RestosIII]

I still think they should have higher velocity than SRMs, but stream-fire like cLRMs.

[Gentleman Reaper]

cazidin, on 18 January 2017 - 11:32 AM, said:

They're basically very heavy SRMs with a LOT more missiles. My guess is that PGI will balance them by making them wild and inaccurate.

I'm imagining a 2 stage firing system, so an MRM10 fires 5 missiles twice, and an MRM40 fires 20 missiles twice. This prevents you from washing someone over with a ridiculous amount of damage at once, without making it better to boat a smaller launcher. This can be balanced with high missile velocity.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

RestosIII, on 18 January 2017 - 11:35 AM, said:

I still think they should have higher velocity than SRMs, but stream-fire like cLRMs.

So basically just bad versions of the cUAC20? MRMs would get used about the same amount at that point, that is that they would be horrible weapons.

[Mcgral18]

Faster velocity
Longer Cooldown
Volley or Stream fire (10 or 20 packs)

Same spread for all launchers

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 18 January 2017 - 11:39 AM, said:

So basically just bad versions of the cUAC20? MRMs would get used about the same amount at that point, that is that they would be horrible weapons.

With Shitreg being what it is, I think we need some way to space the missiles out

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Mcgral18, on 18 January 2017 - 11:41 AM, said:

With Shitreg being what it is, I think we need some way to space the missiles out

I get that, but streaming like cLRMs such that you have to stare down your opponent is not going to make them justifiable. I just wish MWO would stop trying to be all high tech and do what MW4 did and group missiles together as one thing and give them a bit of splash damage so it isn't purely pinpoint.

[Garfuncle]

They should work like unlocked MW3 LRMs. Fired all in one barrage in a straight trajectory minus guidance.

[brroleg]

Just make MRM's projectile speed comparable to LBX pellets speed. So MRM40 will be a little more damaging and a little bigger range lbx20 in missile hardpoint.

Edited by brroleg, 18 January 2017 - 11:53 AM.

[Weepy Wanebow]

I suspect that they will have a similar velocity to SRMs but that they will sorta feed out the way that clan LRMs do. If I want to use my MRM40, it launches 40 fast moving missiles but in a super quick stream. This doesn't hurt guided LRMs from a distance that bad but a 40 missile stream at 300m to 400m that is dumb-fire is going to be tricky to get all those missiles to land. Making them totally dumb-fire makes them hard to use any how at anything further then the average SRM range. Makin them Stream fire makes them tricky to use and not always awesome but potentially devastating which is about what MRMs were in table top.

I think the super big spread of things in general is a bad idea. Shooting out 40 dumb fire missiles all once that have a ridiculously large spread doesn't make sense because that's not how dumb fire works. Your variance wouldn't be that significant. or the warheads would explode mid flight from bumping into each other and you wouldn't use a weapon that wildly inaccurate at its intended range.

Even though I think that LBX needs to be redone because they don't work as intended, they still don't spread so much that if you generally hit at center of mass that your spread misses with 50% or more of its pellets. Even at "intended range" if you hit center of mass 85 to 90% of your spread is going to hit some part of the mech. Making MRMs like a wildly inaccurate, one at a time, cluster shot is sure fire way to have them replace SRMs in every way. If I can't trust them past 200m then I will just shoot you with them between 150 and 250 meters. I'll hit you with enough that I'll forget what SRMs are on anything but light and medium mechs. The few I have to shoot out past that range will still cause enough area damage that I can damage clustered enemy groups enough to justify it. Plus I'm sure there will be some way for some of the mechs to reduce missile spread just like there are for SRMs and such

[Mcgral18]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 18 January 2017 - 11:43 AM, said:

I get that, but streaming like cLRMs such that you have to stare down your opponent is not going to make them justifiable. I just wish MWO would stop trying to be all high tech and do what MW4 did and group missiles together as one thing and give them a bit of splash damage so it isn't purely pinpoint.

cLRMs are set at a 0.05 interval
0.2 seconds for an L/MRM20
0.4 seconds for a MRM40 with the current value

Maybe 10 missiles every 0.05 seconds
Would that be enough to offset the simultaneous explosions? Certainly short enough duration

Edited by Mcgral18, 18 January 2017 - 11:57 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Mcgral18, on 18 January 2017 - 11:56 AM, said:

Would that be enough to offset the simultaneous explosions? Certainly short enough duration

That would be better, though I still worry about the velocity as well.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 18 January 2017 - 11:59 AM.

[HellJumper]

when generally fighting under 450m it wont make much difference to balance stuff

[RestosIII]

HellJumper, on 18 January 2017 - 08:55 PM, said:

when generally fighting under 450m it wont make much difference to balance stuff

Uh... But 450m and closer is generally the average fighting distances... And trust me, it makes a difference to "balance stuff" at those ranges.

[The Zohan]

RestosIII, on 18 January 2017 - 11:35 AM, said:

I still think they should have higher velocity than SRMs, but stream-fire like cLRMs.

And I still think this 3060+ crap shouldnt be in this game.

[AnTi90d]

I imagine MRMs to be something in between SRMs and LBXs.

As long as PGI doesn't totally drop the ball, they should fit into a niche nicely between the two.

..which brings me to my main concern:

If we have MRMs, PGI needs to rethink missile tube counts. (Can you imagine firing an MRM-40 out of the Victor's gimp tube?) MRMs should also have a bolt-on tumor over the missile ports on a mech, to make them look ugly and noticeable like in all of the artwork and models.. which could have its own tube count, regardless of what mech equips it.

If PGI does it right, we'll have nastiness like this thing. (The #2 mech that I want to see in the game.. #1 being the
Gunslinger.)

[RestosIII]

The Zohan, on 18 January 2017 - 10:18 PM, said:

And I still think this 3060+ crap shouldnt be in this game.