61 replies to this topic

[The6thMessenger]

What if the ECM have some sort of "battery" when it can only be used a short duration at a time? Like 10s ECM bubble, but then after the gauge runs out, one must wait another 10s for the charge to fill, and during that time the ECM is hard-locked to Counter mode.

[El Bandito]

I'm fine with that. Either a 10 second battery that can be recharged for unlimited times, or a 30 second battery that can be charged for limited amount of times. People are gonna cry that such rework is far from lore, but the current ECM is also not following the lore in terms of function.

#nomorejesusbox

Edited by El Bandito, 14 January 2017 - 02:34 AM.

[The6thMessenger]

El Bandito, on 14 January 2017 - 02:32 AM, said:

I'm fine with that. Either a 10 second battery that can be recharged for unlimited times, or a 30 second battery that can be charged for limited amount of times. People are gonna cry that such rework is far from lore, but the current ECM is also not following the lore in terms of function.

#nomorejesusbox

I'd go with 8s bubble with 6s recharge time, for unlimited amount of recharge. Also what if PPC drains ECM charge instead?

Edited by The6thMessenger, 14 January 2017 - 02:45 AM.

[HGAK47]

Im curious why you wish to change ECM at all. Do you have a problem with it currently? I only ask because I use a fair few smaller mechs with ECM so I have a stake in it so to speak.

[The6thMessenger]

HGAK47, on 14 January 2017 - 02:52 AM, said:

Im curious why you wish to change ECM at all. Do you have a problem with it currently? I only ask because I use a fair few smaller mechs with ECM so I have a stake in it so to speak.

Well, people say that it does have a problem by being a complete jesus box. Especially those with great experience, so i'm just offering an idea of how to rework this.

[Carl Vickers]

Bring in ECCM, that fixes it, oh wait, BAP and CAP, we already have it.

[El Bandito]

HGAK47, on 14 January 2017 - 02:52 AM, said:

Im curious why you wish to change ECM at all. Do you have a problem with it currently? I only ask because I use a fair few smaller mechs with ECM so I have a stake in it so to speak.

1. My personal issue with ECM is that it such a big performance booster while costing as little as 1 ton and 1 slot. You can't say the same for other similar weight equipments such as BAP/CAP, or even TC1. Info matters a lot in MWO, more than most other shooters, and ECM is denying them at such a small price.

2. In lore only Angel ECM (which is not available in the current timeline) is suppose to block LRM/SSRM locks, not Guardian ECM--which we have here.

Edited by El Bandito, 14 January 2017 - 03:28 AM.

[Galenit]

The6thMessenger, on 14 January 2017 - 02:28 AM, said:

What if the ECM have some sort of "battery" when it can only be used a short duration at a time? Like 10s ECM bubble, but then after the gauge runs out, one must wait another 10s for the charge to fill, and during that time the ECM is hard-locked to Counter mode.

Why not do balancing ecm and lrms together?

ECM: More spread and more lockontime for lrms and decrease the enemys radar radarrange for all mechs in a 180m radius against ecm.
BAP/CAP: Counters ecm in range, increase radarrange and decrease loadout readout against mechs out of the ecm bubble.
TAG: Decrease lockontime and spread
NARC: Counter ecm, gives sure lock for duration
ARTEMIS: Reduces locktime and spread with los against enemys without ecm bubble (dont work for streaks!)
LRMS: Increase spread for all lrms to the same spreadcircle (around lrm20)

Goal:
Firing indirect lrms against ecm without any spotting utility = long lockon, big spread
Firing direct lrms against no emc with tag+artemis = very short locktime, tiny spread


Your suggestions needs as much programming then mines, dont know if they are able to do it.
Maybe we should try to find an xlm sollution so pgi is maybe able do to it?

Edited by Galenit, 14 January 2017 - 03:42 AM.

[El Bandito]

Galenit, on 14 January 2017 - 03:36 AM, said:

Why not do balancing ecm and lrms together?

ECM: More spread and more lockontime for lrms and decrease the enemys radar radarrange for all mechs in a 180m radius against ecm.
BAP/CAP: Counters ecm in range, increase radarrange and decrease loadout readout against mechs out of the ecm bubble.
TAG: Decrease lockontime and spread
NARC: Counter ecm, gives sure lock for duration
ARTEMIS: Reduces locktime and spread with los against enemys without ecm bubble (dont work for streaks!)
LRMS: Increase spread for all lrms to the same spreadcircle (around lrm20)

Goal:
Firing indirect lrms against ecm without any spotting utility = long lockon, big spread
Firing direct lrms against no emc with tag+artemis = very short locktime, tiny spread


Your suggestions needs as much programming then mines, dont know if they are able to do it.
Maybe we should try to find an xlm sollution so pgi is maybe able do to it?

The forumers had already suggested every single idea that you have posted here, years ago. So far, PGI has not implemented them.

[Galenit]

El Bandito, on 14 January 2017 - 03:41 AM, said:

The forumers had already suggested every single idea that you have posted here, years ago. So far, PGI has not implemented them.

I have posted this over years too ...

Thats why i think we should try to find a xml sollution.

Edited by Galenit, 14 January 2017 - 03:44 AM.

[El Bandito]

Galenit, on 14 January 2017 - 03:44 AM, said:

I have posted this over years too ...

Thats why i think we should try to find a xml sollution.

I have not checked those files myself, but editing XML files for the sake of changing weapon/equipment properties is something I am able to do. Still it is no guarantee that PGI is gonna take notice.

[impar]

Please, we are having a truck load of new tech appearing in some months time, plus a new skill tree, now is NOT the time to mess with existing tech.

[Trip Hammer]

What if it was handled a little like the Clan targeting computers?

Different performances for small, medium and large bubbles or performance costing extra weight and size?

[El Bandito]

The Faceless, on 14 January 2017 - 07:06 AM, said:

What if it was handled a little like the Clan targeting computers?

Different performances for small, medium and large bubbles or performance costing extra weight and size?

That's gonna be hard to sell to the table top purists. Targeting Computer at least had different sizes in lore depending on how many tons of weapons they are controlling. There is no mention of differently sized Guardian ECM, in contrast.

[Trip Hammer]

What if it was handled a little like the Clan targeting computers?

Different performances for small, medium and large bubbles or performance costing extra weight and size with no total invisibility?

• Small, Delays lock short time, Small Area (80m), 1 ton & 1 Space
  
• Medium, Delays lock medium time, Medium Area (100m), 2 ton & 2 Spaces
  
• Large, Delays Lock the longest, Large Area (120m), 3 Ton & 3 Spaces

Something like that

[Snowbluff]

El Bandito, on 14 January 2017 - 03:19 AM, said:

1. My personal issue with ECM is that it such a big performance booster while costing as little as 1 ton and 1 slot. You can't say the same for other similar weight equipments such as BAP/CAP, or even TC1. Info matters a lot in MWO, more than most other shooters, and ECM is denying them at such a small price.

2. In lore only Angel ECM (which is not available in the current timeline) is suppose to block LRM/SSRM locks, not Guardian ECM--which we have here.

ECM is a big performance booster on modern aircraft as well. Doubt they weigh as much an engine or a cannon.

Also, you pay a mech tax with ECM. ECM mechs are always suboptimal in layout, outside of the Arctic Cheetah.

Also, every mech has C3 computers. The limitations imagined for the TT shouldn't always be expected to apply to the video game.

Edited by Snowbluff, 14 January 2017 - 07:31 AM.

[Novakaine]

You have just effectively negated any use for lrm's at all.
Just like just the rolling arty spammageddon of the past.
Potatoes wouldn't use because well potatoes.
And comp groups would just use it as a 12 man rolling ecm shield.
Clankies have a cornucopia of ecm mechs.
IS have a handful of ecm mechs that you rarely see at all.
Hell I can't even get my peeps to carry AMS.
So no us Rocketeers have it hard enough as it is.

[El Bandito]

Snowbluff, on 14 January 2017 - 07:29 AM, said:

ECM is a big performance booster on modern aircraft as well. Doubt they weigh as much an engine or a cannon.

Also, you pay a mech tax with ECM. ECM mechs are always suboptimal in layout, outside of the Arctic Cheetah.

Also, every mech has C3 computers. The limitations imagined for the TT shouldn't always be expected to apply to the video game.

1. Gameplay > real life examples. And 1 ton ECM is being too good for its own weight.

2. Arctic Cheetah is but the first of many mechs that will be optimal and have ECM. There are many such variants PGI will release in the future. What then?

Edited by El Bandito, 14 January 2017 - 07:40 AM.

[topgun505]

Calling you out here. What performance?

Does it increase your speed? No
Does it increase your turn rate? No
Does it increase your jump distance? No

What does it do?
Prevents target lock for LRMs. You know what? BRING TAG
Prevents lock for Streaks? You know what? BRING BAP/CAP and oh yeah, there is also UAVs

Not to mention PPC hits (which is in huge use at present) temporarily turns its effect off.

So .... no. All it does is allow units to be able to move undetected by sensors. Keep your head on a swivel, don't get tunnel vision on your target, use your eyeballs, and have some situational awareness to spot units that are trying to be sneaky and flanking around you.

El Bandito, on 14 January 2017 - 03:19 AM, said:

1. My personal issue with ECM is that it such a big performance booster

[El Bandito]

topgun505, on 14 January 2017 - 07:44 AM, said:

Calling you out here. What performance?

Does it increase your speed? No
Does it increase your turn rate? No
Does it increase your jump distance? No

What does it do?
Prevents target lock for LRMs. You know what? BRING TAG
Prevents lock for Streaks? You know what? BRING BAP/CAP and oh yeah, there is also UAVs

Not to mention PPC hits (which is in huge use at present) temporarily turns its effect off.

So .... no. All it does is allow units to be able to move undetected by sensors. Keep your head on a swivel, don't get tunnel vision on your target, use your eyeballs, and have some situational awareness to spot units that are trying to be sneaky and flanking around you.

You forgot the biggest benefit ECM offers, which is info denial. The opponent will have no idea of your loadouts, and health for each section of your mech, until they break your ECM. That is far more crucial in combat than mere LRM/SSRM threat. Not to mention you extend the info denial to every ally near you, thus multiplying the effect.