Shifty McSwift, on 26 March 2017 - 03:17 AM, said:
I have never purposely denied locks for the sake of giving a teammate a hard time, but I do often forget to lock, particularly when things get real point blank, and my lock times and lack of lock boosting items often means the locks I do get are not for very long (mostly because it means I am probably shooting/getting shot at the time).
To maintain a lock in many of those circumstances would mean to stay in the firing line getting shot at, in the front half, so when I hear people say "maintain your locks damnit" what I hear is more "get shot for me so I can get a higher score damnit", particularly when you see those same guys not even hill poking to get vision, just waiting on locks.
So I just can't see it as so black and white that the guy who actually chooses not to bother locking at all is more of a detriment than the guy who isn't really doing anything himself, and who literally only gets a good game because of his team mates efforts (have you ever seen a game come down to a cautious lrm boater or 2 vs the last enemies for example? It is sad to watch). They are both a detriment the team in their own way and they both provide to the team in their own way, the guy who isn't locking isn't necessarily also not participating at all, and the guy hiding the whole game waiting on locks, is still in most cases doing damage when he can.
To me that is just no where near as black and white as many other things that are considered without a doubt griefing, so it just shouldn't be in that category.
You see, the thing is that you are not going out of your way to intentionally harm another player's performance.
The thing with griefing, in my opinion of course, is that it's the intent that is behind the (in)action that determines if it's griefing or not.
It's actually very similar in law cases, of particular note Manslaughter and Murder. Manslaughter can be accidental, with no intent, but fault still on the guilty's hands. Such as neglect of an elderly person, accidentally giving someone the wrong meds/too much meds, etc.
Where as murder is often a case where they can prove intent to perform the action, intent to harm said victim, premeditation, etc.
The two have very similar actions, but are completely different results.
Example: Someone fails to provide proper care for an elderly person.
In one example, they forgot about that person and realized it too late that they forgot to get them their much needed medications, resulting in, say, diabetic problems and death. This would be Manslaughter (if applicable).
In another example though, a caretaker, having had enough with this elderly person, decides to purposefully withhold that same said medication with the intention of causing said person's death. This would be Murder. (If intent is provable.)
This is the same with griefing in my opinion. It's all based upon the intent. In keeping with the LRM theme of this discussion, someone who just forgets to get locks and/or is busy dealing with other things is not griefing. However, a player intentionally withholding locks with the intention of trying to hinder a specific player's performance (the LRM user) is griefing. Even if they aren't successful with their actions (the LRM pilot is competent and goes out to get their own locks anyway and/or their team holds locks despite one person refusing to).
It is easy/possible to tell the cases apart? No. But then again, this thread was created to see what other people felt about the subject, and how they perceived the terms and conditions of Griefing (with a provided set example).
Shifty McSwift, on 26 March 2017 - 05:55 AM, said:
...so getting an accurate shot off is very much prioritised over a lock in many cases...
Sorry if this looks paraphrased, but I wanted to mention something here. It's far easier to perform an accurate and lethal shot to a target you have locked, provided of course there is time to get that target's data. Once you know were they are weakest and can aim directly at that location, the more accurate and effective your shots become.
I won't say how many times a direct and focused laser blast on a weakened location has saved me, if not gotten me the kill or even KMDD. (Here is a hint I recently learned. If you want to have higher damage scores and get KMDD more often, aim for side torsos. Even if you don't kill the target, you will apparently earn all the remaining health on the arm being blown off as "damage" to your score.)
The Shortbus, on 26 March 2017 - 07:59 AM, said:
If the poor LRM´er doesnt get locks from his team he should get them locks himself .
Or finally get on the next level and shoot those LRM´s without lock .
Though I am not in disagreement with LRM users trying to get their own locks, which I do agree with completely, I just want to make sure you understand the topic being discussed here at the moment.
We are trying to see what each person's terminology and consideration of what defines "Griefing". Do you define griefing as the action, or the intent behind the actions?
AKA: If someone shot you, is that griefing? Or are you more worried about if he did it intentionally or accidentally before you determine if it is or is not griefing?
In this thread, we are specifically talking about the situation where a player is intentionally not getting locks with the intention of trying to hinder a fellow teammate from being able to utilize their LRMs fully/well. Do you consider that griefing? If so, why? If not, why?
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