guess ill wait a littlebit longer and see how this turns out before adressing stuff that is currently pending.
0
129 replies to this topic
#122
-
-
- Little Helper
- 2,030 posts
Member
Posted 03 February 2017 - 09:00 AM
Cold Darkness, on 03 February 2017 - 08:55 AM, said:
guess ill wait a littlebit longer and see how this turns out before adressing stuff that is currently pending.
Ideas on the dynamic CoF? I'd love to discuss them.
Alternative ideas? Lay 'em on me!
#123
-
-
- The Silent Killer
- 162 posts
Member
Posted 03 February 2017 - 11:00 AM
Cold Darkness, on 03 February 2017 - 08:55 AM, said:
guess ill wait a littlebit longer and see how this turns out before adressing stuff that is currently pending.
Sorry. By my feeding into Dino and responding to his nonsense I helped him to hijack the topic and the conversation. I had hoped that maybe he's see why his behaviour was offensive (that being bait and switch was not joining the conversation) and that at the least he would disengage.
I definitely baited him but in fairness (as evident by his above response) he really, really wants to talk about his ideas and is really invested in them.
If you are interested in attacking my points and explaining what you feel may add depth by inaccurate fire I am interested in hearing them. To help you with what I am stuck on or can't picture is why exactly less accurate fire adds anything to the game. Just a simple increase on TTK or do you have something else in mind?
Am also wondering exactly what mechanic or method you want to use or do you think that any generic method would be sufficient for your idea?
#124
-
-
- Bridesmaid
- 290 posts
Member
Posted 04 February 2017 - 08:25 AM
well, im not gonna read through the last page just yet, because its quite overwhelming in one go. for now i will just post a new idea to think about.
if people are still opposed to any kind of nerf to accuracy, one could emulate a similar (but inferior) effect with the following attempt:
for lasers and CAC weaponry, it would be possible to reduce the instant, unrollable damage by decreasing the first few ticks and increasing the later damage ticks for the same overall damage. essentially, allowing your reflexes to kick in and do something before the majority of the damage arrived. obviously it is inferior to an overall weaponretuning, since it would still require bulletspeed reduction on ppfld weapons (because else it would just invalidate lasers alltogether) and IS & C SPLs would still be pretty much unrollable because of their low burn times (especially with IS SPLs with quirks)
like i opened up, for the sake of the goal, i would be pretty much content with any solution. my preference would be a form of CoF implementation, because >I< feel that it would represent my vision of battlemechs the most with the least ammount of effort involved to implement and balance it.
but since i am well aware that this is a major change to how the game would feel, i also brought up a rebalance of the weapons for slower projectiles for ppfld, longer burntimes for lasers and more projectiles for CAC weapons, as well as bigger spread on SRMs.
it is simple to implement, would help with the goal and would not change the feeling of the game. it would also increase the skill ceiling because aiming becomes harder and because your enemy has more options to evade or roll your damage (which is the goal of this attempt). so to speak, the accuracy would only decrease on SRMs and possibly LBx/LRM, but those two might not need adjustments currently, considering their place in the metagame.
an increased TTK isnt my goal with this thread (it is most likely a sideeffect of these things, though. but they can always adjust that if they feel that the TTK would become longer then necessary)
anyways, the idea is to increase the difficulty to pop a sidetorso instantly by being able to focus damage into a single component without any effort. with the current game mechanics, pgi actually pushed that ability with the last few patches. people where pissed with the lasermetagame because of how easy it was to to accurately put your alphastrikes where they mattered. the only reason why ppc/gauss metagame came back would be because we now have better clanmechs for that and the buffs of the ppcs. if they had nerfed laserburntimes slightly at that point instead of buffing ppcs, we might be in an entirely different metagame currently.
what people dont seem to understand is, that while this would obviously help the clan engines, too, it would help IS engines ALOT more. this is because clanmechs allready roll alot more damage onto their other torso parts, while IS mechs have a lot harder time to do this. by allowing you more reaction time before you blow up, you can spread that damage much easier and be ALOT more durable compared to the current game. i think compared to the current weaponstats, it wouldnt need to be big changes at all to get to that point. but thats something only testing would show.
eh thats enough of a wall of text for now. ill check on page 6 in the comming days and look into those texts.
if people are still opposed to any kind of nerf to accuracy, one could emulate a similar (but inferior) effect with the following attempt:
for lasers and CAC weaponry, it would be possible to reduce the instant, unrollable damage by decreasing the first few ticks and increasing the later damage ticks for the same overall damage. essentially, allowing your reflexes to kick in and do something before the majority of the damage arrived. obviously it is inferior to an overall weaponretuning, since it would still require bulletspeed reduction on ppfld weapons (because else it would just invalidate lasers alltogether) and IS & C SPLs would still be pretty much unrollable because of their low burn times (especially with IS SPLs with quirks)
Quote
Am also wondering exactly what mechanic or method you want to use or do you think that any generic method would be sufficient for your idea?
like i opened up, for the sake of the goal, i would be pretty much content with any solution. my preference would be a form of CoF implementation, because >I< feel that it would represent my vision of battlemechs the most with the least ammount of effort involved to implement and balance it.
but since i am well aware that this is a major change to how the game would feel, i also brought up a rebalance of the weapons for slower projectiles for ppfld, longer burntimes for lasers and more projectiles for CAC weapons, as well as bigger spread on SRMs.
it is simple to implement, would help with the goal and would not change the feeling of the game. it would also increase the skill ceiling because aiming becomes harder and because your enemy has more options to evade or roll your damage (which is the goal of this attempt). so to speak, the accuracy would only decrease on SRMs and possibly LBx/LRM, but those two might not need adjustments currently, considering their place in the metagame.
an increased TTK isnt my goal with this thread (it is most likely a sideeffect of these things, though. but they can always adjust that if they feel that the TTK would become longer then necessary)
anyways, the idea is to increase the difficulty to pop a sidetorso instantly by being able to focus damage into a single component without any effort. with the current game mechanics, pgi actually pushed that ability with the last few patches. people where pissed with the lasermetagame because of how easy it was to to accurately put your alphastrikes where they mattered. the only reason why ppc/gauss metagame came back would be because we now have better clanmechs for that and the buffs of the ppcs. if they had nerfed laserburntimes slightly at that point instead of buffing ppcs, we might be in an entirely different metagame currently.
what people dont seem to understand is, that while this would obviously help the clan engines, too, it would help IS engines ALOT more. this is because clanmechs allready roll alot more damage onto their other torso parts, while IS mechs have a lot harder time to do this. by allowing you more reaction time before you blow up, you can spread that damage much easier and be ALOT more durable compared to the current game. i think compared to the current weaponstats, it wouldnt need to be big changes at all to get to that point. but thats something only testing would show.
eh thats enough of a wall of text for now. ill check on page 6 in the comming days and look into those texts.
#125
-
-
- Little Helper
- 2,030 posts
Member
Posted 04 February 2017 - 11:50 AM
Cold Darkness, on 04 February 2017 - 08:25 AM, said:
like i opened up, for the sake of the goal, i would be pretty much content with any solution. my preference would be a form of CoF implementation, because >I< feel that it would represent my vision of battlemechs the most with the least ammount of effort involved to implement and balance it.
Wait, WHAT?! You were talking about CoF this whole time? But, but but but...this other guy said you weren't for about 3 pages! I totally believed him!
Yeah, I like the dynamic CoF system. I don't really like doing a non-uniform damage per tick setup because it's not very intuitive to the end user. If you ever played Heavy Gear 2, this is how the HPLC weapon worked - blue laser that did all of its damage at the very end (last tick) of the beam. So those used to it learned how to sweep onto the target to get the timing right and dump the last tick on target. The downside is that newer players had no idea why they couldn't hit stuff or do any damage. Your recent proposal wasn't this severe, but its a mechanic I didn't like and don't think really helps. It just serves to allow for more damage spreading if you have very high reaction time, but for what real purpose? I don't think it gets Clan vs IS much closer to parity, and I think the downside is not worth it.
As for your original discussion on generating ideas to affect weapon precision in order to afford another way to balance mech performance, I'm still convinced that's the way to better balance and better gameplay. A very vocal population disagrees, however.
Edited by Dino Might, 04 February 2017 - 11:51 AM.
#126
-
-
- Bridesmaid
- 290 posts
Member
Posted 04 February 2017 - 12:51 PM
Dino Might, on 04 February 2017 - 11:50 AM, said:
Wait, WHAT?! You were talking about CoF this whole time? But, but but but...this other guy said you weren't for about 3 pages! I totally believed him!
no. i just stated that it would be my PREFERED method. that doesnt mean i wrote alot about CoF in this topic. most of my posts are about an alternative. which is what he wrote about.
as for the variying damage ticks: it is just an idea i stated to get opinions on it, yours is valid and adds to my initial downsides. i think it would be easy to balance it in a way to circumvent a really high damage last tick, though.
i also only suggested it as an alternative to what most of my other posts are about. mainly because this is one of very few things i can come up with that would achieve my goal without changing the game mechanics drastically. might just be that i am uncreative, but thats why this is a discussion, to get more ideas to discuss from other people
as for people disagreeing more or less radically to an idea: thats part of the main importance of the topic. by stating different arguments one can see if he can form an idea into something that is acceptable by a party that does not think so when the rawest form of an idea is brought up. so far, this is not happening, but considering that overall the tone of the topic changed into a more civilised direction, i believe this thread is doing just fine. also: as of now i didnt really read much of page 6, so if you guys where bashing each other, i dont know of it when i made this post. yet.
edit:
after reading this post again, i conclude that i need sleep. this is some really crappy english, even for me.
Edited by Cold Darkness, 04 February 2017 - 12:54 PM.
#127
-
-
- The Butcher
- 908 posts
Member
- LocationCanada
Posted 04 February 2017 - 03:40 PM
if people are still opposed to any kind of nerf to accuracy, one could emulate a similar (but inferior) effect with the following attempt:
for lasers and CAC weaponry, it would be possible to reduce the instant, unrollable damage by decreasing the first few ticks and increasing the later damage ticks for the same overall damage. essentially, allowing your reflexes to kick in and do something before the majority of the damage arrived. obviously it is inferior to an overall weaponretuning, since it would still require bulletspeed reduction on ppfld weapons (because else it would just invalidate lasers alltogether) and IS & C SPLs would still be pretty much unrollable because of their low burn times (especially with IS SPLs with quirks)
I suppose for the pulses if you were to back load the damage as in if it fires in three or four pulses the last pulse doing the higher dameage would work. Also instead of bulletspeed you could have recoil which could do a couple of things. First it could curb or make more difficult the ability to fire ppc's and guass at the same time (although with practice you'd fire ppc and then release guass mechanic). Second it would give the way IS ballistics vs. Clan ballistics a buff that may help equalise the weight and space advantage. I actually kind of like that idea.
like i opened up, for the sake of the goal, i would be pretty much content with any solution. my preference would be a form of CoF implementation, because >I< feel that it would represent my vision of battlemechs the most with the least ammount of effort involved to implement and balance it.
My issue is that it could be done in many ways and most of them would be bad. So that you are not fighting blind here too, one of the things that eats at the back of my mind personally is if this would mean that games finished 5 kills to 2, for instance leaving a bunch of robots standing there when the buzzer goes off. That I would absolutely hate.
but since i am well aware that this is a major change to how the game would feel, i also brought up a rebalance of the weapons for slower projectiles for ppfld, longer burntimes for lasers and more projectiles for CAC weapons, as well as bigger spread on SRMs.
it is simple to implement, would help with the goal and would not change the feeling of the game. it would also increase the skill ceiling because aiming becomes harder and because your enemy has more options to evade or roll your damage (which is the goal of this attempt). so to speak, the accuracy would only decrease on SRMs and possibly LBx/LRM, but those two might not need adjustments currently, considering their place in the metagame.
It is still tough for me and I remain unconvinced that this would raise the skill ceiling. You haven't explained to me or I haven't understood what makes the aiming harder when it isn't accurate? It sounds like it would be the same as now just not as effective which is not harder but rather just more. More shooting and rolling. Unless there was something that actually required the user to do to make his weapons more accurate outside of simple stuff like stopping, I am just not seeing it.
As for SRM's I would like to see them move inwards on a cone than outwards as they currently do to increase skill. Crazy silly you say? Think of how unskilled running up and point blank alpha'ing someone is and currently you are rewarded with more pin point firing for doing so? That negates having to use any skill to lead your target or really any need to care about weapon speed at all. It also doesn't make sense to me if your srm's are mounted all over your mech why would they hit one spot when they haven't had time or distance to converge?
an increased TTK isnt my goal with this thread (it is most likely a sideeffect of these things, though. but they can always adjust that if they feel that the TTK would become longer then necessary)
Yeah I already mentioned my fears above.
anyways, the idea is to increase the difficulty to pop a sidetorso instantly by being able to focus damage into a single component without any effort. with the current game mechanics, pgi actually pushed that ability with the last few patches. people where pissed with the lasermetagame because of how easy it was to to accurately put your alphastrikes where they mattered. the only reason why ppc/gauss metagame came back would be because we now have better clanmechs for that and the buffs of the ppcs. if they had nerfed laserburntimes slightly at that point instead of buffing ppcs, we might be in an entirely different metagame currently.
Meta will always be in a state of flux as long as PGI is constently under the hood tinkering. I wish that they would stop and wait before reacting to the community and be open about the data that they use. So far I have not seen an instance where they fixed something that the community wasn't screaming at them to fix.
what people dont seem to understand is, that while this would obviously help the clan engines, too, it would help IS engines ALOT more. this is because clanmechs allready roll alot more damage onto their other torso parts, while IS mechs have a lot harder time to do this. by allowing you more reaction time before you blow up, you can spread that damage much easier and be ALOT more durable compared to the current game. i think compared to the current weaponstats, it wouldnt need to be big changes at all to get to that point. but thats something only testing would show.
Your conclusion is still leaving off at my biggest concern. Bigging more durable to me doen't increase the skill ceiling. Not in of itself. I am more impressed with a light pilot, especially one not in a Locust or Cheetah that is able to do really well. Being fragile is much more difficult and requires a lot of thinking a head.
no. i just stated that it would be my PREFERED method. that doesnt mean i wrote alot about CoF in this topic. most of my posts are about an alternative. which is what he wrote about.
Thank you for that. I have not been able to get this guy to realize what he did wrong or why I was not impressed. Not sure if he is incapable or unwilling but the last thing I need is an inroad for him to start arguing with me again.
for lasers and CAC weaponry, it would be possible to reduce the instant, unrollable damage by decreasing the first few ticks and increasing the later damage ticks for the same overall damage. essentially, allowing your reflexes to kick in and do something before the majority of the damage arrived. obviously it is inferior to an overall weaponretuning, since it would still require bulletspeed reduction on ppfld weapons (because else it would just invalidate lasers alltogether) and IS & C SPLs would still be pretty much unrollable because of their low burn times (especially with IS SPLs with quirks)
I suppose for the pulses if you were to back load the damage as in if it fires in three or four pulses the last pulse doing the higher dameage would work. Also instead of bulletspeed you could have recoil which could do a couple of things. First it could curb or make more difficult the ability to fire ppc's and guass at the same time (although with practice you'd fire ppc and then release guass mechanic). Second it would give the way IS ballistics vs. Clan ballistics a buff that may help equalise the weight and space advantage. I actually kind of like that idea.
like i opened up, for the sake of the goal, i would be pretty much content with any solution. my preference would be a form of CoF implementation, because >I< feel that it would represent my vision of battlemechs the most with the least ammount of effort involved to implement and balance it.
My issue is that it could be done in many ways and most of them would be bad. So that you are not fighting blind here too, one of the things that eats at the back of my mind personally is if this would mean that games finished 5 kills to 2, for instance leaving a bunch of robots standing there when the buzzer goes off. That I would absolutely hate.
but since i am well aware that this is a major change to how the game would feel, i also brought up a rebalance of the weapons for slower projectiles for ppfld, longer burntimes for lasers and more projectiles for CAC weapons, as well as bigger spread on SRMs.
it is simple to implement, would help with the goal and would not change the feeling of the game. it would also increase the skill ceiling because aiming becomes harder and because your enemy has more options to evade or roll your damage (which is the goal of this attempt). so to speak, the accuracy would only decrease on SRMs and possibly LBx/LRM, but those two might not need adjustments currently, considering their place in the metagame.
It is still tough for me and I remain unconvinced that this would raise the skill ceiling. You haven't explained to me or I haven't understood what makes the aiming harder when it isn't accurate? It sounds like it would be the same as now just not as effective which is not harder but rather just more. More shooting and rolling. Unless there was something that actually required the user to do to make his weapons more accurate outside of simple stuff like stopping, I am just not seeing it.
As for SRM's I would like to see them move inwards on a cone than outwards as they currently do to increase skill. Crazy silly you say? Think of how unskilled running up and point blank alpha'ing someone is and currently you are rewarded with more pin point firing for doing so? That negates having to use any skill to lead your target or really any need to care about weapon speed at all. It also doesn't make sense to me if your srm's are mounted all over your mech why would they hit one spot when they haven't had time or distance to converge?
an increased TTK isnt my goal with this thread (it is most likely a sideeffect of these things, though. but they can always adjust that if they feel that the TTK would become longer then necessary)
Yeah I already mentioned my fears above.
anyways, the idea is to increase the difficulty to pop a sidetorso instantly by being able to focus damage into a single component without any effort. with the current game mechanics, pgi actually pushed that ability with the last few patches. people where pissed with the lasermetagame because of how easy it was to to accurately put your alphastrikes where they mattered. the only reason why ppc/gauss metagame came back would be because we now have better clanmechs for that and the buffs of the ppcs. if they had nerfed laserburntimes slightly at that point instead of buffing ppcs, we might be in an entirely different metagame currently.
Meta will always be in a state of flux as long as PGI is constently under the hood tinkering. I wish that they would stop and wait before reacting to the community and be open about the data that they use. So far I have not seen an instance where they fixed something that the community wasn't screaming at them to fix.
what people dont seem to understand is, that while this would obviously help the clan engines, too, it would help IS engines ALOT more. this is because clanmechs allready roll alot more damage onto their other torso parts, while IS mechs have a lot harder time to do this. by allowing you more reaction time before you blow up, you can spread that damage much easier and be ALOT more durable compared to the current game. i think compared to the current weaponstats, it wouldnt need to be big changes at all to get to that point. but thats something only testing would show.
Your conclusion is still leaving off at my biggest concern. Bigging more durable to me doen't increase the skill ceiling. Not in of itself. I am more impressed with a light pilot, especially one not in a Locust or Cheetah that is able to do really well. Being fragile is much more difficult and requires a lot of thinking a head.
no. i just stated that it would be my PREFERED method. that doesnt mean i wrote alot about CoF in this topic. most of my posts are about an alternative. which is what he wrote about.
Thank you for that. I have not been able to get this guy to realize what he did wrong or why I was not impressed. Not sure if he is incapable or unwilling but the last thing I need is an inroad for him to start arguing with me again.
#128
-
-
- Bridesmaid
- 290 posts
Member
Posted 06 February 2017 - 02:35 PM
for recoil:
a possible mechanic, but some drawbacks. gauss rifles should not have recoil because they are gauss guns for example. or ac20 being quite unaffected.
a recoil would propably be really something that needs alot of tinkering to get it balanced right.
for robots remaining on the field on timeout:
depending on mode, this could potentialy add depth to the gameplay because it means more focus on objectives. in skirmish? no go. this would need adjustments. but as i wrote, increasing TTK isnt the main goal of the thread, and it could just be adjusted otherwise if it ends up problematic
for skill ceiling:
if your projectiles are slower moving, you will have a harder time hitting where you want. to achieve the same surgical precision shooting currently in the game, you would need alot more skill to achieve it.
an enemy that does not instantly die in a situation where you currently would kill him instantly will also force you to make more decisions during the match. this is also a skill that will be used more.
for SRMs:
interesting suggestion, i like it.
for metagame:
the metagame shifts very slowly in this game. this would not be a bad thing if the metagame allowed for almost everything. but since it is a really narrow metagame, this is very bad. pgi should propably make smaller adjustments on a bi-weekly basis (but not change the same stuff twice in ~6 weeks if datacollection plays any roll for pgi). i feel that this could lead to a much wider metagame most of the time.
for lights:
light mechs are in a bad spot currently. due to the weaponaccuracy they need ridiculously dumb accel/deccel/turn quirks just to be able to not be insta gibbed. one bad move and they are gone. they very similar to slower assault mechs in that regard.
technically, i did write about rng based methods, too. i just pointed out that it was not the case in the posts that i think he refered to.
in any case, i am not suprised he came to that conclusion by reading that conversation. it was alot of misscommunication going on between you and me (possibly because of writing styles).
a possible mechanic, but some drawbacks. gauss rifles should not have recoil because they are gauss guns for example. or ac20 being quite unaffected.
a recoil would propably be really something that needs alot of tinkering to get it balanced right.
for robots remaining on the field on timeout:
depending on mode, this could potentialy add depth to the gameplay because it means more focus on objectives. in skirmish? no go. this would need adjustments. but as i wrote, increasing TTK isnt the main goal of the thread, and it could just be adjusted otherwise if it ends up problematic
for skill ceiling:
if your projectiles are slower moving, you will have a harder time hitting where you want. to achieve the same surgical precision shooting currently in the game, you would need alot more skill to achieve it.
an enemy that does not instantly die in a situation where you currently would kill him instantly will also force you to make more decisions during the match. this is also a skill that will be used more.
for SRMs:
interesting suggestion, i like it.
for metagame:
the metagame shifts very slowly in this game. this would not be a bad thing if the metagame allowed for almost everything. but since it is a really narrow metagame, this is very bad. pgi should propably make smaller adjustments on a bi-weekly basis (but not change the same stuff twice in ~6 weeks if datacollection plays any roll for pgi). i feel that this could lead to a much wider metagame most of the time.
for lights:
light mechs are in a bad spot currently. due to the weaponaccuracy they need ridiculously dumb accel/deccel/turn quirks just to be able to not be insta gibbed. one bad move and they are gone. they very similar to slower assault mechs in that regard.
Quote
Thank you for that. I have not been able to get this guy to realize what he did wrong or why I was not impressed. Not sure if he is incapable or unwilling but the last thing I need is an inroad for him to start arguing with me again.
technically, i did write about rng based methods, too. i just pointed out that it was not the case in the posts that i think he refered to.
in any case, i am not suprised he came to that conclusion by reading that conversation. it was alot of misscommunication going on between you and me (possibly because of writing styles).
#129
-
-
- The Butcher
- 908 posts
Member
- LocationCanada
Posted 06 February 2017 - 03:23 PM
for recoil:
a possible mechanic, but some drawbacks. gauss rifles should not have recoil because they are gauss guns for example. or ac20 being quite unaffected.
a recoil would propably be really something that needs alot of tinkering to get it balanced right.
AC/20 would have a lot of recoil. Guass could have an up to right based on rifling?
for robots remaining on the field on timeout:
depending on mode, this could potentialy add depth to the gameplay because it means more focus on objectives. in skirmish? no go. this would need adjustments. but as i wrote, increasing TTK isnt the main goal of the thread, and it could just be adjusted otherwise if it ends up problematic
Honestly not trying to be flippant when I say then I don't see the point. The objectives in this game do very little in the way of complexity other than break teams up.
for skill ceiling:
if your projectiles are slower moving, you will have a harder time hitting where you want. to achieve the same surgical precision shooting currently in the game, you would need alot more skill to achieve it.
an enemy that does not instantly die in a situation where you currently would kill him instantly will also force you to make more decisions during the match. this is also a skill that will be used more.
Possibly or it could just mean more spam. Skilled players will of coarse figure out how to use any mechanic be it leading or timing but likely both. I also don't see this making positioning or map control any more of a focus than it already is.
for SRMs:
interesting suggestion, i like it.
Thank you. It is simple and makes more sense to me but I doubt many others would see the merits. Sorta just my own pet peeve.
for metagame:
the metagame shifts very slowly in this game. this would not be a bad thing if the metagame allowed for almost everything. but since it is a really narrow metagame, this is very bad. pgi should propably make smaller adjustments on a bi-weekly basis (but not change the same stuff twice in ~6 weeks if datacollection plays any roll for pgi). i feel that this could lead to a much wider metagame most of the time.
Yeah I agree. Killing stuff so quickly with the nerf hammer is silly and causes unintended results. Like adjusting the KDK 3 and screwing over the Spirit Bear in the process.
technically, i did write about rng based methods, too. i just pointed out that it was not the case in the posts that i think he refered to.
in any case, i am not suprised he came to that conclusion by reading that conversation. it was alot of misscommunication going on between you and me (possibly because of writing styles).
Fair enough. I think the misunderstanding was you were speaking of any and all methods and I wasn't following because your original post I interpreted as having some sort of in game mechanics that mimicked real world mechanics such as recoil.
a possible mechanic, but some drawbacks. gauss rifles should not have recoil because they are gauss guns for example. or ac20 being quite unaffected.
a recoil would propably be really something that needs alot of tinkering to get it balanced right.
AC/20 would have a lot of recoil. Guass could have an up to right based on rifling?
for robots remaining on the field on timeout:
depending on mode, this could potentialy add depth to the gameplay because it means more focus on objectives. in skirmish? no go. this would need adjustments. but as i wrote, increasing TTK isnt the main goal of the thread, and it could just be adjusted otherwise if it ends up problematic
Honestly not trying to be flippant when I say then I don't see the point. The objectives in this game do very little in the way of complexity other than break teams up.
for skill ceiling:
if your projectiles are slower moving, you will have a harder time hitting where you want. to achieve the same surgical precision shooting currently in the game, you would need alot more skill to achieve it.
an enemy that does not instantly die in a situation where you currently would kill him instantly will also force you to make more decisions during the match. this is also a skill that will be used more.
Possibly or it could just mean more spam. Skilled players will of coarse figure out how to use any mechanic be it leading or timing but likely both. I also don't see this making positioning or map control any more of a focus than it already is.
for SRMs:
interesting suggestion, i like it.
Thank you. It is simple and makes more sense to me but I doubt many others would see the merits. Sorta just my own pet peeve.
for metagame:
the metagame shifts very slowly in this game. this would not be a bad thing if the metagame allowed for almost everything. but since it is a really narrow metagame, this is very bad. pgi should propably make smaller adjustments on a bi-weekly basis (but not change the same stuff twice in ~6 weeks if datacollection plays any roll for pgi). i feel that this could lead to a much wider metagame most of the time.
Yeah I agree. Killing stuff so quickly with the nerf hammer is silly and causes unintended results. Like adjusting the KDK 3 and screwing over the Spirit Bear in the process.
technically, i did write about rng based methods, too. i just pointed out that it was not the case in the posts that i think he refered to.
in any case, i am not suprised he came to that conclusion by reading that conversation. it was alot of misscommunication going on between you and me (possibly because of writing styles).
Fair enough. I think the misunderstanding was you were speaking of any and all methods and I wasn't following because your original post I interpreted as having some sort of in game mechanics that mimicked real world mechanics such as recoil.
#130
-
-
- Bridesmaid
- 290 posts
Member
Posted 09 February 2017 - 01:40 AM
@ recoil
gauss rifles wouldnt have recoil, because the projectile is dragged, not pushed. i dont think that the recoil on a ac20 matters alot, because the damage of the weapon itself will be as easy to land as currently and followupshots arent that usual with that weapontype (except maybe on a king crab)
@objectives
yeah, but thats allready alot. the problem is, they are still ignorable to much and they fail to do that many times. but thats a different issue
@skill ceiling
it could lead to more "spam", however, spamming your weapons is limited by your heat dissipation. if you start randomly spamming and hope for the best, you will be at a disadvantage compared to a better pilot.
@real world mechanics
yeah, some things like those could also be used to achieve the goal, but i think it is rather unlikely due to it either being very hard to properly implement and balance (which kind of makes it obsolete in this context since this thread is trying to find a reasonable solution) or could face alot of opposition by nature (due to a simplified version propably involving the hateloved RNG factors)
edit:
after reading a bit, im propably wrong about gauss rifle recoil. well, in any case it would be alot less then most AC-Classes.
gauss rifles wouldnt have recoil, because the projectile is dragged, not pushed. i dont think that the recoil on a ac20 matters alot, because the damage of the weapon itself will be as easy to land as currently and followupshots arent that usual with that weapontype (except maybe on a king crab)
@objectives
yeah, but thats allready alot. the problem is, they are still ignorable to much and they fail to do that many times. but thats a different issue
@skill ceiling
it could lead to more "spam", however, spamming your weapons is limited by your heat dissipation. if you start randomly spamming and hope for the best, you will be at a disadvantage compared to a better pilot.
@real world mechanics
yeah, some things like those could also be used to achieve the goal, but i think it is rather unlikely due to it either being very hard to properly implement and balance (which kind of makes it obsolete in this context since this thread is trying to find a reasonable solution) or could face alot of opposition by nature (due to a simplified version propably involving the hateloved RNG factors)
edit:
after reading a bit, im propably wrong about gauss rifle recoil. well, in any case it would be alot less then most AC-Classes.
Edited by Cold Darkness, 09 February 2017 - 01:46 AM.
2 user(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 2 guests, 0 anonymous users
