21 replies to this topic

[WolvesX]

I'm mean why not?

In WoT You can see that stats of any tank, you can even read out every facett of thier internal workings, you can read out what stuff is most used on them etc.

What would be the downside of showing people that information?

I mean was information ever too much?

Edited by WolvesX, 21 January 2017 - 11:32 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

[WolvesX]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 January 2017 - 08:48 AM, said:

My original post actually had a large section on that, but I cut it, because I wanted to have a civil discussion.

It is funny, to be sure, but if you look at other big games, they open of data like taht big time.

[cazidin]

I'm noticing a rather large and disturbing trend of game companies relying solely on a similarly flawed internal balancing method, often to disastrous result while ignoring the community. (E.g. MWO, WoW, etc.)

[Mystere]

cazidin, on 21 January 2017 - 08:55 AM, said:

I'm noticing a rather large and disturbing trend of game companies relying solely on a similarly flawed internal balancing method, often to disastrous result while ignoring the community. (E.g. MWO, WoW, etc.)

From another thread:

Mystere, on 21 January 2017 - 08:50 AM, said:

Well, it can be reasonably argued that an online video game needs large numbers of paying players. If said number can be achieved by catering to the lowest common denominator, then it will be done. Whether you or I like it is inconsequential.

This is where pure economics (i.e. making money) easily trumps science (i.e. balance). Yesterday should have clearly pounded that into people's collective minds.

[Bishop Steiner]

WolvesX, on 21 January 2017 - 08:51 AM, said:

My original post actually had a large section on that, but I cut it, because I wanted to have a civil discussion.

It is funny, to be sure, but if you look at other big games, they open of data like taht big time.

Frustration.

We've asked for transparency on so many things, for years. Even just player population online. It's like asking Trump for his Tax Returns.

[WolvesX]

Ya, been away 3 years I didn't see it, but coming back, that is one of the first things I noticed. Lack of information. The game is great, I love it, but it could be sooo much better still.

[cazidin]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 January 2017 - 09:01 AM, said:

Frustration.

We've asked for transparency on so many things, for years. Even just player population online. It's like asking Trump for his Tax Returns.

Or like seeing where the Clinton Foundation money went to?

[Bishop Steiner]

cazidin, on 21 January 2017 - 11:25 AM, said:

Or like seeing where the Clinton Foundation money went to?

Well, we do know that money didn't go to "Putin" a President in office...

[cazidin]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 January 2017 - 11:45 AM, said:

Well, we do know that money didn't go to "Putin" a President in office...

Isn't that more a matter of her losing, than a lack of Russian/international financing?

Also are we discussing RL politics on a Forum dedicated to MechWarrior, a game that Russ wants zero involvement with, but will happily respond on Twitter (or ban you, if he doesn't like you.)

[Bishop Steiner]

cazidin, on 21 January 2017 - 11:50 AM, said:

Isn't that more a matter of her losing, than a lack of Russian/international financing?

Also are we discussing RL politics on a Forum dedicated to MechWarrior, a game that Russ wants zero involvement with, but will happily respond on Twitter (or ban you, if he doesn't like you.)

Well, I'm not. I just used a known current event fact in popular media to demonstrate the lack of transparency here. I don't live in the USA, and dislike both candidates, anyhow. I just happen to have long hated Trump as a human being, to boot.

As for the winning, losing... well, seems to be some questions there, too. Regardless, it happened. And a petulant egotist with no self control now joins the similar types in Russia and North Korea, etc. What is that ancient Chinese Curse? "May you live in interesting times?" Well, whatever happens, we are certainly living in interesting times.

Me? I'm going to keep fishing, diving, keep drinking, and well, if a mushroom cloud appears on the horizon, ain't nothing I can do about it, anyhow. Bottoms up!

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 21 January 2017 - 11:59 AM.

[Anjian]

Statistical data also requires to show the number of examples, in this situation, games that are played, to indicate the validity of the stat.

Lets says for example, World of Warships.

One ship has over 100,000 games played with a 50% win rate.

One ship only has 5,000 games played with a 55% win rate.

You really cannot jump to the conclusion that the second ship is better than the first, until it accumulates the same sample size, over time. However, if this means the ship is really overpowered, the devs would let it stay until they have accumulated a sample size that can produce "actionable" data for a nerf.

Why MWO hides its stats? Probably to hide the fact that its going to generate much fewer games, which indicates smaller player base, and which if one gathers data on two week segments, can also indicate a rise or fall in the player base. These sort of statistics do reveal overall player base health, and also breaks it down to regional servers.

[Deathlike]

Somewhere in Vancouver, Our Balance Overlord said:

RNGesus, hold mah drink!

[Buster Machine 0]

I too would like to see the data, but PGI probably won't release it because if they do many players will begin a mass exodus to play only the best performing mechs and variants.

So no, PGI please do not release the statistics, the last thing we need is everyone flocking to a single chassis because I for one do not miss the days of 16 Kodiaks in quick play games.

[Y E O N N E]

Dr Genocide, on 21 January 2017 - 07:03 PM, said:

I too would like to see the data, but PGI probably won't release it because if they do many players will begin a mass exodus to play only the best performing mechs and variants.

So no, PGI please do not release the statistics, the last thing we need is everyone flocking to a single chassis because I for one do not miss the days of 16 Kodiaks in quick play games.

12 Kodiaks, though, that's fine.

[SuomiWarder]

I suppose that like many things, there is more than one reason. Collectively the reasons make PGI decide to keep the info in house. Possible reasons?

(1) People have a tendency to jump to incorrect assumptions based on a set of numbers without a real idea of what the results mean in the context of the sample size and other factors. (2) They are tired enough of we players preaching on what we know about their game without giving us numbers to quote as well. (3) Their general paranoia about the public getting number of players data makes them worried that game data might be used to guess at player numbers. (4) They are worried that too many people would use the data to simply pinpoint the best "meta" and then use that, making the problem worse. (5) The data is not as extensive as they pretend and they don't want to tip us off (6) The data amount is freaking huge and we wouldn't be able to do much with it anyway. (7) They get enough grief on the forums without starting a bunch of threads debating statistical analysis methods. (8) The data contains the plans to the Death Star and they don't want a anyone building another one to threaten the galaxy with. (9) Global warming and harp seals.

[Anjian]

Experience has shown you don't need third party analytics and statistics to tell you which vehicle is overpowered or not. As the experience in World of Tanks and World of Warships has shown, players already know what already performs good and godly without statistics telling them so.

If you think having plenty of Kodiaks in game is a plague, for months, in WoWs, we have had both sides full of German battleships fighting each other --- Bismarck, Tirpitz, Scharnhorst, Gneisenau. And their stats are high too, not just because the ships are good, but many wehrboos are unicum players.

Analyzing the server statistics of that game also thought me a few valuable lessons.

For example, the standard battleship Kongo generally maintains around 49 to 50% in win rate. However, the anime skinned ARP (Arpeggio of Blue Steel) Kongo managed around 55% win rate, despite being totally a skin with no difference in specs whatsoever with the IJN Kongo. So what caused the big jump in win rate? Anime loving players flocked to one particular ship, and many of the weeboos are unicum players.

[jonfett]

OP, you can't handle the truth!! Only a pureblood PGI dartboard overlord specialist and his acolytes may look upon the mighty data of MWO balance. Your eyes would immediately incinerate and your soul would melt.

[Koniving]

Deathlike, on 21 January 2017 - 06:54 PM, said:

RNGesus, hold mah drink!

[bluesmith]

I suspect the data is withheld because it will highlight the p2w aspects of the game. Even if it's not intended, and even if there are many examples to the contrary, it only really takes one instance of a cash shop or MC-only mech with a high win/loss or k/d ratio to ruin the game's reputation. That's what they're afraid of happening.