55 replies to this topic

[RestosIII]

Scout Derek, on 24 January 2017 - 12:34 AM, said:

and Living Legends will continue its production again and become something that alot have dreamed of.

'Points to MW:LL community updates'

[Scout Derek]

Pjwned, on 24 January 2017 - 12:19 AM, said:

There wouldn't be as much animosity towards PGI if management, including and especially Russ Bullock, had done a better job handling the game and everything else involved with it.

I don't just mean "oh yeah they could have done a better job but it wasn't so bad" either, because it's been a constant trend of sub-glacial development pace, absolute failed disasters like faction warfare, atrociously bad communication with the playerbase, so many broken promises that almost nobody believes PGI anymore just on their word about anything, leaving issues like mech scaling to rot for years before eventually fixing it later on even though it would have been much less work to address it long beforehand, a nightmarish mess of balance that would make even a World of Warcraft player's head spin, etc.

So I can easily see why somebody would want to see Russ replaced, because he deserves that sentiment. It of course won't happen though since MWO continues to be profitable in spite of PGI management, so there's not really a point in talking about having anybody replaced, but it's pretty easy to see why somebody would feel that way because PGI management has been consistently disappointing and there are still a lot of unresolved problems.

Exactly. But here's the thing; Only the vocal minority feel this way, that is, those that come to the forums to talk about the game.

I'm going to remind you of the minimap failure PGI had. When everyone came together, what Happened? They acted. Russ responded. The problem was fixed. So my question to you and RedDragon is this:

If Russ and PGI are not doing a good job, why isn't everyone altogether complaining about it? Why aren't the silent majority tweeting him or clogging the forums with how bad pgi and Russ are making this game?

[RestosIII]

Scout Derek, on 24 January 2017 - 12:39 AM, said:

I'm going to remind you of the minimap failure PGI had. When everyone came together, what Happened? They acted. Russ responded. The problem was fixed.

I agree with you to a point, and this is that point. The minimap was never "fixed." It's still an incomprehensible mess for me, and unless they change back to the old system, it will stay that way. Can never tell where I'm going and it's zoomed out too far.

Edited by RestosIII, 24 January 2017 - 12:57 AM.

[Scout Derek]

RestosIII, on 24 January 2017 - 12:44 AM, said:

I agree with you to a point, and this is that point. The minimal was never "fixed." It's still an incomprehensible mess for me, and unless they change back to the old system, it will stay that way. Can never tell where I'm going and it's zoomed out too far.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Idealsuspect]

Scout Derek, on 23 January 2017 - 10:34 PM, said:

MWO may have never existed, had Russ and the other two hadn't come together and make PGI. hell, there might've never been Jordan Weisman coming to make the TT BattleTech game that's coming up here soon.

So think about it. MWO IS a fun game. yes, it has its damned problems, like any other game on this world of ours. MWO is actually a pretty successful game for its time.

I'm sorry if that was a white knight, but it's pretty damn stupid to try and take someone's job from them. You would agree with me if this was your job at stake here.

MWO IS a fun game? Yea but not because what you did said.
MWO IS a fun game cause Battletech is a fun universe.


MWO will be nothing without BT universe behind...This game will be dead since 2013 it's just a fact.
Whales did put money into not becose it was a fun game or a awesome new game with a new universe like halo or lots others ... they did put money not because of PGI history ...
No, They did put money because of BATTLETECH IP.
And whatever if whales money did go to transverse dev and whatever if now it's going to MW5:Mercs dev even they know it they keep give money CAUSE of BATTLETECH and who is "mainly" behind BATTLETECH?


In fact they did put money into this game even they knew about PGI history in games dev ( not really famous ) .. they did put money into even the game wasn't really fun as it could and more important they keep play because they like BT universe.

Also i can understand what the OP wanna say with this not-important thread he maybe just have bads drops before or his PPCs still don't regist when he shoot them 2per2 ...Who know and who care?...


And don't be sorry to be white knight, you were sorry to be a moderator after you were sorry to be fired or i don't from moderation ... really don't be sorry Isn't that important too like this thread it's just a game. A broken one yea but just a game.

[visionGT4]

Scout Derek, on 24 January 2017 - 12:25 AM, said:

If anything I like to see IS mechs get up there against clans on a more level playing field. but we don't.

Yet not at an equal level?

Im sorry man, but your last sentence is why we even need to have stupid non constructive troll threads like this. Since its clear that well thought out and articulated reason & logic doesn't work with you people (yes, i said you people!) of whom the balance overlords + those complicit are included(why this is only the baby jesus knows..). Maybe full ret4rd thread titles like this one myte provoke some tiny, tiny indication from our betters that good times are on the horizon and that those of us who just want to drive cool mechs and shoot at other cool mechs in a "fair" contest should just hang in there a little longer?

Why cant IS stuff be as good as yours? "good as yours" doesnt need to be bland equal stats and nor does it need to mean IS becomes the new easy mode difficulty selector. Some form of parity between the tech bases needs to be the end goal. The reluctance of you people(yus!) to allow this is best described as frustrating..

Edited by visionGT4, 24 January 2017 - 01:17 AM.

[Idealsuspect]

Scout Derek, on 24 January 2017 - 12:39 AM, said:

I'm going to remind you of the minimap failure PGI had. When everyone came together, what Happened? They acted. Russ responded. The problem was fixed. So my question to you and RedDragon is this:

If Russ and PGI are not doing a good job, why isn't everyone altogether complaining about it? Why aren't the silent majority tweeting him or clogging the forums with how bad pgi and Russ are making this game?

Wasn't the first time this minimap got the exact same bug/issue, since i play MWO it did appear 3 times minimum.

This communauty is not more than a beta tester communauty when you see thoses kinds of issues...
And minimap isssue is just one in middle of many others...
Friendlist is still buggued, even groups are buggued when merging, chat can make your game crash, HUD coded in flash still do HUGE FPS drop on many computers ( and many people did just uninstall the game when they saw this and won't tweet russ or ask anything in forums ) and there is tonns of others kind of bugs.

People don't report thoses anymore cause it isn't and won't be fixed since years... Pretty sure that Daedeloss or Navid A1 may tell you.
But yea people mass report when it's a HUGE stupid bug (which did appears tonns of time already ) that any test should highlight before a public release...

Edited by Idealsuspect, 24 January 2017 - 01:32 AM.

[WolvesX]

--- snip ---

Original comment was too offensive on a secound thought.

Edited by WolvesX, 24 January 2017 - 06:29 AM.

[Johnny Z]

I like him, hes a likable guy from a player watching pod casts point of view. He seems smart and creative and I bet he actually does have the ear of the guys and girls making this game. Not much else to say other than I think this game is being made really well already and from watching the MW5 video and the new Battletech video game videos, the peeps making these games are making the best sci-fi games ever along with ME: Andromeda and Cyberpunk 2077 and maybe Bethesda's unannounced title if it does turn out to be sci-fi. That's saying a lot to.

So what about X-COM 2 and the other not really that great titles? Well they were not that great. Missing theme and atmosphere and all sorts of things and most important of all, the fiction isn't nearly as good.

At this point MechWarrior Online is still being built and is an unknown. So are both the new Battletech game and MW5 game. Yep its all a wait and see sort of thing. Same with Star Citizen but that's even further off so far.

Luckily for players ME: Andromeda is coming out this March I think. Maybe that's good or not? No one knows.

Another item of note, the top selling game of 2016 was Infinite Warfare. A great looking sci-fi game from the videos, but it was super limited in scope of 5 or 6 hours of single player time and nothing at all beyond and just linear story. That game cannot be compared to the above mentioned games. (never played it this is from reviews)

Edited by Johnny Z, 24 January 2017 - 05:12 AM.

[Pjwned]

Scout Derek, on 24 January 2017 - 12:39 AM, said:

Exactly. But here's the thing; Only the vocal minority feel this way, that is, those that come to the forums to talk about the game.

--snip--

So my question to you and RedDragon is this:

If Russ and PGI are not doing a good job, why isn't everyone altogether complaining about it? Why aren't the silent majority tweeting him or clogging the forums with how bad pgi and Russ are making this game?

I think you're wholly discounting how many people have already posted their (entirely legitimate in most cases) grievances with the game over time, and then stopped playing when they realized PGI doesn't give a ****, or in the rare cases they do care then it takes an unreasonably long time for them to do anything about it. If you want to see something that's really telling then go look at the list of members with a Founders badge, because it's a graveyard.

You're also (wrongly) assuming that everybody who doesn't bother posting thinks the game is fine, because a lot of people don't bother posting anything and they just stop playing when they get fed up; my small, casual unit of people who all quit when they saw what a disappointment community warfare was an example of this. There are also semi-regular posts from players popping up on the forums and saying "hey I took a break from the game for a while, is it not a piece of **** yet or is it still largely the same" or something to that effect, which shows that they don't want to hang around the forums just because they stopped playing MWO due to not liking the direction it was (or was not) going.

Of course, not everybody who doesn't bother posting dislikes the game, because that's just as delusional to think that, but neither is it that everybody who doesn't bother posting likes the game or is even satisfied with it.

Anyways, the reason that so many came to the forums and complained about the minimap is because it's such a fundamental tool on the battlefield, so obviously it's not helpful to screw with it in nonsense ways while people just want to play some matches whether or not they're satisfied with the game; that doesn't mean the masses are all fine with PGI's mediocrity and especially not when there's an obvious trend of PGI not listening and not caring.

Quote

I'm going to remind you of the minimap failure PGI had. When everyone came together, what Happened? They acted. Russ responded. The problem was fixed.

It wasn't really fixed though, as Restos said:

RestosIII, on 24 January 2017 - 12:44 AM, said:

I agree with you to a point, and this is that point. The minimap was never "fixed." It's still an incomprehensible mess for me, and unless they change back to the old system, it will stay that way. Can never tell where I'm going and it's zoomed out too far.

And your response is just some stupid shrugging ASCII face.

The minimap was more or less fine as it was, then Russ & co. came up with some half-baked idea (because they live in La-La Land and never play their own game) to screw with it, and then instead of reverting it back to the way it was or improving it in any real manner, they just left it as some slightly less awful piece of crap because they got bored of it and moved onto something else.

You're just proving my point with that example.

Edited by Pjwned, 24 January 2017 - 04:10 AM.

[jss78]

I dunno, I think you just have to take MWO for what it is, and that's a company-level 'mech death match.

I too prefer my BT in something like TT/MegaMek campaign, really bringing together combined arms, economic realities, lore, role-play, the full richness of the BT universe.

But it'll never give me the experience of OMG I'M SITTING IN A 'MECH, and MWO is wonderful for that. Very, very limited in scope, but cool for what it is. I get the frustration of MWO founders who were promised more, that was a misstep from PGI, but I'd just get over it.

If Jordan Weisman, HBS et al. were working on this game, they wouldn't have time to do that turn-based game which is looking wonderful thus far. How would that be a good thing? It's an overall fantastic time for the franchise.

Edited by jss78, 24 January 2017 - 04:43 AM.

[Bombast]

Regardless of the bait status, I think I'll answer, simply:

Jordan Weisman is a very rich, very successful man with a lot of friends and pull in a lot of circles, including the video game industry, the table top industry, and with both companies that own Battletech/Mechwarrior. If Mr. Weisman wanted to be the one heading up MWO, he would have been. He quite obviously didn't want to be, so I don't think we should be hoping or wishing he was. Especially since he currently is doing something he wants to do - Transferring (Successfully) his old TT franchises to computer games.

I think we should all be cheering him on in his current effort, rather than doing him a disservice by saying MWO is 'more important' than what he's doing now.

However, is it out of line for me to cross my fingers and hope for an HBS Maelstrom game?

[Novakaine]

Where do these clods come from, and someone close the freaking door.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

Regarding MW:LL, i like it. I like the oldshool sim like feeling and the long skirmish battles on semi open maps. Tanks and aircrafts.
But(!) MWO got the visuals, the mech models, customization, paintjobs, the meaty rompy stompy robot feeling including absolute glorious audio. The sound of pulselaser hnnng~ Clan autocannons hnnnnng~
I think both games have their place, both could learn from eachother.
Just imagine, MW:LL with the aesthetics, graphic and sound fidelity of MWO. Or MWO with MW:LL map and gameplay design.

Edited by Toha Heavy Industries, 24 January 2017 - 08:02 AM.

[cazidin]

Scout Derek, on 23 January 2017 - 10:34 PM, said:

You know, I don't mean to be rude to those to whom I address this to, but here goes;

I don't like it when people say that someone else should be doing the job for them. I absolutely despise it. They have their own job, their own company, and you want to take that from them. what a asinine statement to try and pull sympathy for on a subject.

MWO may have never existed, had Russ and the other two hadn't come together and make PGI. hell, there might've never been Jordan Weisman coming to make the TT BattleTech game that's coming up here soon.

So think about it. MWO IS a fun game. yes, it has its damned problems, like any other game on this world of ours. MWO is actually a pretty successful game for its time.

And again. ENOUGH WITH THESE POTATO IDEAS. STOP.

I'm sorry if that was a white knight, but it's pretty damn stupid to try and take someone's job from them. You would agree with me if this was your job at stake here.

You're right. MW:O may not have existed if not for PGI, we might've gotten MechWarrior V. The license may've stayed unused, but the former is more likely tbh. We've a right to express our frustration with the development team, and Russ is leader of not just that team but the entire company. He's chosen to communicate with us, which is good, but on Twitter exclusively, which is bad.

I think the real problem here is that, due to the lack of adequate communication, we simply assume Russ to be a stubborn idiot who ignores all outside suggestions as he resides in an echo-chamber of positive tweets. We don't know why PGI does some of the things they do, and there probably isn't a good reason for it IF we did know!

There a lot of people who could be better and done a better job as lead designer and balance overlord. Even I could do that, and you may ask but why? Is it because I represent the average intelligent person? No. I'm a genius, actually, though some of you will doubt this because of my acerbic wit joke threads and this is the Internet where everyone can claim to be a genius, but, no.

Why could I do better? Because I understand game design, I understand game balance, and I see through BS. Anyone who meets these three qualifications could do as good if not a better job.

[TLBFestus]

I disagree with it being ipso facto that if JW were to take over at PGI that RB would be fired.

They'd simply give him another position, something well paying and ceremonial, like a high priced Walmart greeter sorta thing.

Maybe pouring coffee in that snazzy lounge PGI made for staff.

He could wear a buncha medals, "Founder and Creator of Mechwarrior Online", "No man is an Island, but some are one one", things like that. They could make epaulets out of his favorite faction banners for him.

Heck they could put him in charge of the ART department. I mean if he's good enough to have been Prez, he deserves a "lateral promotion" to the best department in the company at the very least.

Or maybe leave that department alone, and go to the 2nd best one, Customer Service. "Hello, my name is Russ, what can I do for you today?"

No firings...easy peasy.

________________________________________

Scout Derek, on 24 January 2017 - 12:39 AM, said:

If Russ and PGI are not doing a good job, why isn't everyone altogether complaining about it? Why aren't the silent majority tweeting him or clogging the forums with how bad pgi and Russ are making this game?

There's a grain of truth to this statement, but be honest, a large percent of the love that this company receives is from players so desperate for MW, that carry such an obvious "piece of wood" for the game that they fall all over themselves praising the game even when there have been obvious screw ups. They feel faint at the mere thought of the game ever ending despite it's repetitious nature. Their cheeerleader panties are, well to put it delicately, in need of some drying.

There are people here who wouldn't complain about this game at gun point.

The reality is though, that Russ basically cannot be fired, since he's the only guy the has the clout to do so. The benefits of being top dog.

Edited by TLBFestus, 24 January 2017 - 08:31 AM.

[Mystere]

Scout Derek, on 23 January 2017 - 10:58 PM, said:

I understand your pain for clan tech, and how you distatse it. But that gives you no vindication to try and say that Jorge can do better. He has developed TT games, not FPS like the MechWarrior Franchise.

There's nothing we can do to remove clan tech now. to remove it means refunding the thousands of people who paid $$$$$$ for their clan mechpacks, and C-Bills too. to do that means facing the anger of half of this entire community. And let's not forget PGI has spent quite a bit of that money from clan packs for future development and MechWarrior 5.

Hey, if the OP has a bank account big enough to refund all Clan tech development and purchases, why not?

[Scout Derek]

Pjwned, on 24 January 2017 - 04:09 AM, said:

I think you're wholly discounting how many people have already posted their (entirely legitimate in most cases) grievances with the game over time, and then stopped playing when they realized PGI doesn't give a ****, or in the rare cases they do care then it takes an unreasonably long time for them to do anything about it. If you want to see something that's really telling then go look at the list of members with a Founders badge, because it's a graveyard.

You're also (wrongly) assuming that everybody who doesn't bother posting thinks the game is fine, because a lot of people don't bother posting anything and they just stop playing when they get fed up; my small, casual unit of people who all quit when they saw what a disappointment community warfare was an example of this. There are also semi-regular posts from players popping up on the forums and saying "hey I took a break from the game for a while, is it not a piece of **** yet or is it still largely the same" or something to that effect, which shows that they don't want to hang around the forums just because they stopped playing MWO due to not liking the direction it was (or was not) going.

Of course, not everybody who doesn't bother posting dislikes the game, because that's just as delusional to think that, but neither is it that everybody who doesn't bother posting likes the game or is even satisfied with it.

Anyways, the reason that so many came to the forums and complained about the minimap is because it's such a fundamental tool on the battlefield, so obviously it's not helpful to screw with it in nonsense ways while people just want to play some matches whether or not they're satisfied with the game; that doesn't mean the masses are all fine with PGI's mediocrity and especially not when there's an obvious trend of PGI not listening and not caring.



It wasn't really fixed though, as Restos said:



And your response is just some stupid shrugging ASCII face.

The minimap was more or less fine as it was, then Russ & co. came up with some half-baked idea (because they live in La-La Land and never play their own game) to screw with it, and then instead of reverting it back to the way it was or improving it in any real manner, they just left it as some slightly less awful piece of crap because they got bored of it and moved onto something else.

You're just proving my point with that example.

When you start saying "stupid" and "Pricing my point", that's when I knew I think it's time to wrap it up, seeing you're getting upset since we're now delving into something completely different from what the OP title has suggested. (and I'll address again why I was angry)

I don't assume. I know that there's a graveyard of founders. I actually have my own graveyard on my friends list - 5/6ths of it are offline. I've seen it all. And you know where I stand when it comes to the community retaining it's importance in the game.

Bottom line is for this, is that if the OP had worded it differently, such as take over management of MWO, we would never be having this conversation, and we all would have agreed that Russ does indeed to have someone else manage how the game is developed.

But if you want to replace him with someone else... that's a different story altogether, and in this case, this story.

NT Hackman, on 24 January 2017 - 01:35 AM, said:

Unsurprising coming from a suck-up. Is there ever a moment where you aren't mad that people don't have the same thought train you do? Of course there isn't. If this was the OP's job at stake here then maybe he would've made a better game and not tried to actively trash the community like Russ does.

I'm not even going to explain myself to you. You dislike me immensely, so why bother.

TLBFestus, on 24 January 2017 - 08:10 AM, said:

The reality is though, that Russ basically cannot be fired, since he's the only guy the has the clout to do so. The benefits of being top dog.

And there it is. Unless, you make him something like a CEO.....

Mystere, on 24 January 2017 - 08:38 AM, said:

Hey, if the OP has a bank account big enough to refund all Clan tech development and purchases, why not?

Thank you for the joke, it's nice to try and look at it with a lighter side to some of this.

[Appogee]

RedDragon, on 24 January 2017 - 12:18 AM, said:

the only thing that keeps MWO and PGI afloat is the fact that they hold the IP hostage. If MWO weren't (loosely based on) Battletech, it would never have made it that far. No other game dev could get away with the stuff PGI is pulling if there was any kind of competition on the market.

This, pretty much.

Pjwned, on 24 January 2017 - 04:09 AM, said:

I think you're wholly discounting how many people have already posted their (entirely legitimate in most cases) grievances with the game over time, and then stopped playing when they realized PGI doesn't give a ****

And this.

[Cy Mitchell]

The HBS BattleTech beta was supposed to be in January. Now, it is pushed back to "the next couple months". The completed BattleTech game was supposed to be released in May 2017. Now, it is being forecasted for sometime in 2017.

I am a backer and I have n o problem with this. What game is actually released on time anymore? But the BattleTech crowd is a tough group to satisfy. If there are more delays or other disappointments how long will be before they are calling for Jordan Weisman's or Mitch Gillman's head?

I think MWO is fun and I enjoy playing it when I get the chance. Russ is listening to the community and trying to make changes to improve gameplay. He is also bringing Mechwarrior 5 to us sometime in the future. (Remember what I said about games never being released on time.) That said, you cannot please everyone and some will think that he is never doing enough because of the lofty and unrealistic goals that were set for the game. MWO may not be all that he or we wanted it to be but he deserves credit for dusting off an all but forgotten IP and bringing it back from the dead to the point that now we have MWO and two other BattleTech based games on the horizon.

Thanks to Russ and PGI.