47 replies to this topic

[Sniper09121986]

MrMadguy, on 25 January 2017 - 09:57 PM, said:

IS:
STD engine, that gimps your firepower and speed too much
XL engine, that causes instant ST one-shot death problems

Clan:
Big optimal XL engine, that allows you to have higher speed, equip more heatsinks and doesn't have instant ST one-shot death problems

Must be a Spheroid thing, fearing death so much If you lose a ST on any mech with any engine, you basically lose half of your weapons. Not sure how you feel about it, but when I end up without any weapons I usually just leave the match. When you lose half your weapons it usually means you are in front of several enemy mechs and about to be wasted in a few seconds anyway. A similar situation occurs when you lose a leg and your speed drops to almost nothing. Now back to your example concerning the above:

IS:
STD engine, that lets you keep the other torso and fight with full speed
XL engine, that causes instant ST one-shot death problems

Clan:
Big optimal XL engine, that lets you keep the other torso and fight with legged speed

Do you see the implication? Clan XL lets you fight, yes indeed, but it lets you fight in an already almost hopeless situation AND does not give you any hope to get out of it! So what if I can live, what, five seconds longer? I am halfway to the Great Father already! With that in mind, I would simply equip an http://www.sarna.net...on_Engine_-_XXL when it is available, pack even bigger payload and still have pretty much the same number of deaths than otherwise. And guess what, it is available for both IS and Clan, just a bit further down the timeline.

PhoenixFire55, on 27 January 2017 - 07:08 AM, said:

Than perhaps you shouldn't be fubaring the existing balance between clan omnimechs and IS battlemechs and address clan battlemechs instead? Or finally admit that you can't balance something that isn't supposed to be balanced in the first place?

nehebkau, on 27 January 2017 - 07:27 AM, said:

This is something we can agree on. There is no way to balance clans and IS when clans are given far more advanced technology.

The answer to that is just that - advanced technology. Tech imbalance between IS and Clan more or less evened up as the timeline advances, at least in the tabletop. I wonder how they will handle it here though

[Y E O N N E]

Sniper09121986, on 27 January 2017 - 12:35 PM, said:

The answer to that is just that - advanced technology. Tech imbalance between IS and Clan more or less evened up as the timeline advances, at least in the tabletop. I wonder how they will handle it here though

Yeah, it evened up because there was this thing called the Republic of the Sphere that build 'Mechs using both Clan and IS gear...

[Sniper09121986]

Yeonne Greene, on 27 January 2017 - 01:54 PM, said:

Yeah, it evened up because there was this thing called the Republic of the Sphere that build 'Mechs using both Clan and IS gear...

And they were Spheroids. Balance, there you have it

[Y E O N N E]

Sniper09121986, on 27 January 2017 - 02:19 PM, said:

And they were Spheroids. Balance, there you have it

They were actually both. They had Clan enclaves within their borders, even within the Fortress Republic.

[Sniper09121986]

Yeonne Greene, on 27 January 2017 - 02:45 PM, said:

They were actually both. They had Clan enclaves within their borders, even within the Fortress Republic.

So what? Draconis Combine used to have enclaves of that very same Clan, and it did not make it anything other than a Spheroid state. Devlin Stone is a Spheroid, his treatment of his Clan allies before the drop on Terra was Spheroid (he only wanted them for their shiny toys, to quote David Lear), so yes, the Republic is Spheroid. But actually in my original comment on tech imbalance I was aiming more toward the earlier stage of the Jyhad, when the IS research started to catch up, not without help from WoB who IMO have some of the coolest tech around, right along with Wars of Reaving. This tech level advance can do much to level the playing field here in MWO, at least until Darth Nerfinatus gets pwn'd by a Clanner, of course

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Sniper09121986, on 27 January 2017 - 03:15 PM, said:

when the IS research started to catch up, not without help from WoB who IMO have some of the coolest tech around, right along with Wars of Reaving. This tech level advance can do much to level the playing field here in MWO, at least until Darth Nerfinatus gets pwn'd by a Clanner, of course

You realize the Wars of Reaving added some of the most broken Clan tech right? iATMs that behave like streak versions of ATMs and they added inferno ammunition on top of that for it? Nova CEWS that is everything C3i wishes it could be. There are nice things the IS got, but they didn't bridge the gap as much as people make it out to be especially if you include society equipment.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 27 January 2017 - 03:18 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Sniper09121986, on 27 January 2017 - 03:15 PM, said:

So what? Draconis Combine used to have enclaves of that very same Clan, and it did not make it anything other than a Spheroid state. Devlin Stone is a Spheroid, his treatment of his Clan allies before the drop on Terra was Spheroid (he only wanted them for their shiny toys, to quote David Lear), so yes, the Republic is Spheroid. But actually in my original comment on tech imbalance I was aiming more toward the earlier stage of the Jyhad, when the IS research started to catch up, not without help from WoB who IMO have some of the coolest tech around, right along with Wars of Reaving. This tech level advance can do much to level the playing field here in MWO, at least until Darth Nerfinatus gets pwn'd by a Clanner, of course

The point is, the tech balanced up because the tech became homogeneous...as in, both sides could use whatever no matter where it originated. It had nothing to do with the IS stuff. The IS future gear remains inferior even in 3145, which is why the BV on a well-optimized pure IS 'Mech is still lower than that on a pure Clan 'Mech.

I do agree new toys will help this game out, but I have approximately zero confidence that PGI will handle it right. I don't even think they will release all of the bare minimum necessary to address the issues.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 27 January 2017 - 03:20 PM.

[Tarl Cabot]

BluefireMW, on 27 January 2017 - 07:32 AM, said:

That because they want the same engines in there mechs, but they want to have the quirks that counter there drawback in place, too. Nothing is worth this kind of thing, if the torso is not shot through and is working, then both mechs are with a engine which weighs half of a Standard engine and the clan mech was not able to change the engine size. Normally this would be countered through a fully changeable loadout, but this is not possible in here.
And there are clan omni mechs without xl engines, like the stooping hawk.

I have yet seen any posts concerning the quirks themselves, primarily because we are USED to quirks changing in a heartbeat every time Russ or Paul drops a bar of soap then something goes wrong with something...

The structural/armor quirks would likely not disappear but maybe reduced, again cause they used to enhance the mechs geometry. As for the offensive quirks, PGI will continue to using quirks instead of changing base weapon stats where it is needed.

With the current tech foundation, IS is primarily locked into energy meta mechs, with a few exceptions. To use IS heavier and bulkier ballistics, even if w/a possible future UAC10, most mechs will need to use isXL, which will not be every effective when all it takes is for their opponent to take out one of three torsos. Instead many take energy boats, and most of those energy boats can do it with isXL or STD, the difference being how fast they can move.