70 replies to this topic

[Carl Vickers]

Kael Posavatz, on 31 January 2017 - 07:50 PM, said:

Okay, here are some possibilities

Lyran Commonwealth:
--First 2 assault mechs treated as 5 tons lighter for purposes of dropdeck tonnage
--Atlases treated as 10 tons lighter

FedSuns--
--Autocannon cooldown buff
--autocannon ammunition buff (carries more ammo)

FWL
--upgrades (Endo, ferro, double HS, Artemis) cost less, but duration for 'desertion' is 2 weeks instead of 1


Mech Specific
--give mechs particularly associated with a faction a boost
--Liao Ravens get extended ECM range,
--Kurita Panthers get PPC velocity quirks
-- Smoke Jaguar EbonJags get a little more armor
--Wolf DireWhales go a little faster
--Steiners can scout with Atlases, but only when dropping 4 of them. Unless it is a FedCom formation (3 Steiners and a Davion) in which case the Davion can drop a Victor instead.

Kael, full respect man but cant you see the huge holes that will be introduced from a game play perspective in what you are suggesting.

Example, putting in 4 100 tonners vs 4 50 tonners, game breaking much?

[Jables McBarty]

SuperFunkTron, on 31 January 2017 - 05:55 PM, said:

Just because a plan hasn't been put out yet is no reason to discourage the attempt to test a working model. Giving faction related quirks would be a process that would work to make sure that one faction doesn't end up being disproportionately desirable over the others. Just look at the ongoing measures that are being taken to not only balance tech but also balance FP itself. The values could be adjusted easily for factions that are overperforming to restore balance. Plenty of other games have units that perform with certain quirks that help them perform a task or role more effectively and still manage to find a balance with the other groups involved. I've already started typing out a model for faction specific mech bonuses that is almost ready for some review, but am still collecting information to get more ideas for faction quirks, but I strongly believe that if the right traits are adjusted, each Faction could be known for bringing particular strengths to the battlefield that are complimentary to a company as well as associated costs for those benefits that would encourage mixing of factions or for new tactics to be developed in relation to other factions' strengths. This game needs to take advantage of the identity it has available as opposed to trying to achieve balance through mediocrity.

Don't get me wrong, I think if properly executed it would be a WONDERFUL idea--a la zerg/terran/protoss in Starcraft, where each has its strengths and weaknesses.

I just don't think PGI has the resources to adequately execute such faction advantages/disadvantages in a balanced manner within a reasonable timeframe. Put everything else on hold for six months and only adjust faction quirks, maybe. But...yeah I think there are other things they can do.

[SuperFunkTron]

Kael Posavatz, on 31 January 2017 - 07:50 PM, said:

Okay, here are some possibilities

Lyran Commonwealth:
--First 2 assault mechs treated as 5 tons lighter for purposes of dropdeck tonnage
--Atlases treated as 10 tons lighter

FedSuns--
--Autocannon cooldown buff
--autocannon ammunition buff (carries more ammo)

FWL
--upgrades (Endo, ferro, double HS, Artemis) cost less, but duration for 'desertion' is 2 weeks instead of 1


Mech Specific
--give mechs particularly associated with a faction a boost
--Liao Ravens get extended ECM range,
--Kurita Panthers get PPC velocity quirks
-- Smoke Jaguar EbonJags get a little more armor
--Wolf DireWhales go a little faster
--Steiners can scout with Atlases, but only when dropping 4 of them. Unless it is a FedCom formation (3 Steiners and a Davion) in which case the Davion can drop a Victor instead.

I was starting to think of the best way to address faction quirks (global bonus for all faction specific mechs, or consider more specific quirks like you have suggested). These sound like they'd be very interesting and not overly power factions but rather accentuate archetypal mechs of the factions. The 380-400 ton Lyran scout lance is a very interesting idea, especially since their awful speed would make them hilariously bad at scouting, but would also create an interesting game of cat and mouse with the opposing lights and mediums needing to address the unusual challenge!

[SuperFunkTron]

Jables McBarty, on 31 January 2017 - 08:41 PM, said:

Don't get me wrong, I think if properly executed it would be a WONDERFUL idea--a la zerg/terran/protoss in Starcraft, where each has its strengths and weaknesses.

I just don't think PGI has the resources to adequately execute such faction advantages/disadvantages in a balanced manner within a reasonable timeframe. Put everything else on hold for six months and only adjust faction quirks, maybe. But...yeah I think there are other things they can do.

So then lets work together to try to flesh out as much as we can together so the task would be less daunting once they can get to it. I realistically see it happening a step at time; First, a broad designation of Faction specific mechs designating chassis availability. Next, a more specific pass, assigning variants to receive bonuses based on Faction specificity. That would be followed by an initial "light" quirking of factions, i.e. Liao gets ECM buffs, Ghost Bear gets scouting buffs... something that is lore based to show a strength, and possibly applied weakness to off set the buff. Finally, once those are deemed to be reasonably well balanced (quirks to be adjusted to encourage role oriented warfare as opposed to damage only fighting), add small quirks to specific mechs similar to those Kael posted above (obviously the Lyran scout lance will need to be discussed in more detail, we need to know if certain atlas variants would get radar buffs ).

It doesn't need to be done all at once, but a step wise progression similar to what is described above would help identify problem points at the point they begin to exist and fix them as they go along. This should be done along side other corrections, not exclusively.

[N0MAD]

LOL,
Cant you imagine the coding nightmare and time taken to code in any weapon or equipment quirk added to a mech based on a players faction and that player been able to move factions at will?
And you think PGI is prepared or capable of said programming?
And do you think giving out a few trinkets like colors,$ ect will bring people back or make them stay in a faction playing that god awful FP?.
Rewards aint going to bring or keep any one full stop.
Bad game mode is bad Shineys aint going to fix it.

[50 50]

Carl Vickers, on 31 January 2017 - 08:04 PM, said:

Kael, full respect man but cant you see the huge holes that will be introduced from a game play perspective in what you are suggesting.

Example, putting in 4 100 tonners vs 4 50 tonners, game breaking much?

.... but it would be funny.
On that same note we could give Smoke Jaguar the ability to conduct orbital bombardments instead of even contesting planets. Rapid fire long tom strikes.... just because they got fed up with the planet.

[Carl Vickers]

Whilst funny for a match or so, all I see is potato's trying to use it and loosing anyways. Then the whining starts.

[Jables McBarty]

SuperFunkTron, on 31 January 2017 - 08:58 PM, said:

So then lets work together to try to flesh out as much as we can together so the task would be less daunting once they can get to it. I realistically see it happening a step at time; First, a broad designation of Faction specific mechs designating chassis availability. Next, a more specific pass, assigning variants to receive bonuses based on Faction specificity. That would be followed by an initial "light" quirking of factions, i.e. Liao gets ECM buffs, Ghost Bear gets scouting buffs... something that is lore based to show a strength, and possibly applied weakness to off set the buff. Finally, once those are deemed to be reasonably well balanced (quirks to be adjusted to encourage role oriented warfare as opposed to damage only fighting), add small quirks to specific mechs similar to those Kael posted above (obviously the Lyran scout lance will need to be discussed in more detail, we need to know if certain atlas variants would get radar buffs ).

It doesn't need to be done all at once, but a step wise progression similar to what is described above would help identify problem points at the point they begin to exist and fix them as they go along. This should be done along side other corrections, not exclusively.

I'd venture it's safer to try something like what I suggested above--incentivizing different playstyles by buffing rewards, rather than buffing actual combat effectiveness.

We know this works because on event weekends where KMDD are the goal, everyone brings their LRM boats. From a coding standpoint it might be easier too--basically an additional set of calculations on the Faction Rewards tab of the score screen.

So instead of GB getting scouting buffs, they get additional Cbills for the Scouting and Protected Light in-game rewards (the ones that pop up). It sounds like Liao are info war type (my lore is mediocre at best), so they get a boost to TAG, NARC, Counter-ECM, and UAV spotting cbill bonuses.

Buff the rewards significantly, make it worth the while to bring that TAG, BAP, or NARC.

[SuperFunkTron]

Jables McBarty, on 01 February 2017 - 07:38 AM, said:

I'd venture it's safer to try something like what I suggested above--incentivizing different playstyles by buffing rewards, rather than buffing actual combat effectiveness.

We know this works because on event weekends where KMDD are the goal, everyone brings their LRM boats. From a coding standpoint it might be easier too--basically an additional set of calculations on the Faction Rewards tab of the score screen.

So instead of GB getting scouting buffs, they get additional Cbills for the Scouting and Protected Light in-game rewards (the ones that pop up). It sounds like Liao are info war type (my lore is mediocre at best), so they get a boost to TAG, NARC, Counter-ECM, and UAV spotting cbill bonuses.

Buff the rewards significantly, make it worth the while to bring that TAG, BAP, or NARC.

I could see that being a good stand in until they get the more in depth propositions in. But stopping at just buffing rewards for play style perpetuates the perception of minimum effort and does little to improve things like retention and easing the learning curve for new players.

[Kael Posavatz]

Carl Vickers, on 31 January 2017 - 08:04 PM, said:

Kael, full respect man but cant you see the huge holes that will be introduced from a game play perspective in what you are suggesting.

Example, putting in 4 100 tonners vs 4 50 tonners, game breaking much?

Yeah, I was being a little sarcastic with that one. But after thinking about it for a while I think it's at least good enough to drop into a test server.

Try looking at it this way. A Boar's Head can run a 400-series engine, topping out at 69.7 KPH. Meanwhile, my Ice Ferret does 139.3 kph. Even if the Steiner-scouts are the aggressors, with the way people skimp on back armor these days, or focusing on one leg...

The point is two-fold. 1) Trying to give the Loyalists a reason to be loyalist, a little flavor, something. 2) Break up the static gameplay.

I used to see a lot of Clan players dropping SCrows (well, we lacked another 55 tonner, but still) fitted out in a handful of different ways (streak-boat, SPulse+SRM, Spulse+UAC/LB-20, etc). But at the same time I see the same handful of IS mechs kitted out the same way (Griffin 2N, Hunchback-4SP, etc).

So...call it half-jest, half-serious attempt to make gameplay different.

50 50, on 31 January 2017 - 10:02 PM, said:

On that same note we could give Smoke Jaguar the ability to conduct orbital bombardments instead of even contesting planets. Rapid fire long tom strikes.... just because they got fed up with the planet.

Eh. There's a difference between something outrageous enough to be fun, and something deliberately game-breaking. Besides, the way the Smoke Jaguars tell the story they had to sterilize Turtle Bay because the whole entire city had suddenly gone irrevocably insane and they had to stop the spread.

On second thought, maybe there was an outbreak of...ZombieMechs?

Edited by Kael Posavatz, 01 February 2017 - 12:46 PM.

[50 50]

Kael Posavatz, on 01 February 2017 - 12:39 PM, said:

Eh. There's a difference between something outrageous enough to be fun, and something deliberately game-breaking.

I know, I was commenting in jest as well.

If loyalty points become a currency we can spend on things, then perhaps for a cost Steiner loyalists could do the assault lance scouting drop or they must be a group of 4 and pay a combined cost to enable it.

Be nice if we had the Invasion and scouting options available in the private lobby so we can test out these options and see how it plays out without them being in the main stream. Even with straight up Invasion mode to look at different tonnage restrictions for both sides or how the mode might play out with the existing group queue tonnages. That's a bit of a side request I guess.